Repeating Levels - Best for Gymnast or Selfish Gym

[cbone]

In my opinion repeating L3 is the biggest waste of time I have ever heard of!

NtG, you're going to get the brunt of this, but it's the culmination of a lot of little shots since I joined the board. The constant shots at Level 3 are insulting. Level 3 gymnasts are athletes, just like gymnasts from any other level. They put in hard work at the gym learning their skills, just like gymnasts from any other level. They compete their hearts out, just like gymnasts from any other level. They love the sport, just like gymnasts from any other level.

Just because Level 3 gymnasts are just starting their gymnastics journey, this is not a reason to marginalize them or their level.

 

[NewtoGym]

NtG, you're going to get the brunt of this, but it's the culmination of a lot of little shots since I joined the board. The constant shots at Level 3 are insulting. Level 3 gymnasts are athletes, just like gymnasts from any other level. They put in hard work at the gym learning their skills, just like gymnasts from any other level. They compete their hearts out, just like gymnasts from any other level. They love the sport, just like gymnasts from any other level.

Just because Level 3 gymnasts are just starting their gymnastics journey, this is not a reason to marginalize them or their level.

Yes, I agree, which is why they should not be repeating. That is, unless they are not mentally, physically, or emotionally ready to be on team. L4 is the beginning of team or even L5 at some gyms. Why repeat 3 when you a girls had a successful year. Seams silly. Especially since most gyms do not compete L3. That is why you may feel that people are taking shots. I appreciate your interest and excitement for your dds sport, but as most veteran parents will tell you a gymnast competing L3 is not the same as a gymnast competing L10 or even L6. It is a way for USAG to make money. There is no need to compete it and most gyms don't. The hours, money and skill level is minimal (relatively). That is not to take away from your dds gymnastics, but it is a distinction to be noted when discussing higher level gymnastics.

To compare a girl repeating L3 for scoring well to a L6 who scored well is not a very fair comparison.

 

[cbone]

But how can you expect a gymnast not to repeat Level 3 and to compete Level 4 without their RO-BHS?

 

[gymnut1]

But how can you expect a gymnast not to repeat Level 3 and to compete Level 4 without their RO-BHS?

In some clubs they would think the training time better spent on training the RO BHS so the child could compete level 4 rather than spend the time polishing routines and going to meets for level 3 - prepping for meets takes alot out of a training schedule. Especially if said child has already done very well at level 3. However it is nice for children to compete also and they enjoy it. And of course they learn the 'skill' of competing too. Gyms have different philosophies on competing and the right level to start. As long as the parents understand and agree with their gyms ideas either way should work. Some children may value competing more than advancing and prefer to take that route. Some would rather compete 3 again rather than not compete at all and others would think if I can't compete level 4 I would rather work on my level 4 skills than compete 3 again.

 

[Muddlethru]

To the OP, your best bet is truly to speak with the coaches and find out their plan. The mobility score to move up to L7 is 31.00. So the USAG feels that this score is enough or shows some mastery to go to the next level and many gyms follow this. In addition L6 is considered, at least in my state, as a pass through level. Many gyms opt out or score out of this level. And although your daughter is young, she is not that young to be in L7. You can be as young as 7 in L7. You will find her age group as a L6 is in the middle. My daughter did L6 (3 meets) in the fall and L7 (2 meets and then state) in the spring. While she did very well in all her meets, I think she was in somewhat of a disadvantage going into the state competition. Most, if not all her competitors were competing L7 all year, some even repeating. My concern with your daughter is no matter how I look at it, repeating L6, practicing L6 routines does not lead to a any progression that makes sense. Admittedly, I am not a coach and my daughter has been in gymnastics for only 4 years, but if she repeats L6 even for the first part of the year, continues to practice L6 routines, it shortens the time for her to master L7 or do better in L7. And if she goes to L8 the next season, having a whole year of L7 is certainly more beneficial than having a half year. Having said all that, I also believe going through the levels quickly is a path taken by those who want to go elite. A steady conservative progression is a path taken by many. Ultimately, what will benefit your daughter depends on her goals and what is comfortable for her and what will make her happy.

 

[LizzieLac]

To the OP, your best bet is truly to speak with the coaches and find out their plan. The mobility score to move up to L7 is 31.00. So the USAG feels that this score is enough or shows some mastery to go to the next level and many gyms follow this. In addition L6 is considered, at least in my state, as a pass through level. Many gyms opt out or score out of this level. And although your daughter is young, she is not that young to be in L7. You can be as young as 7 in L7. You will find her age group as a L6 is in the middle. My daughter did L6 (3 meets) in the fall and L7 (2 meets and then state) in the spring. While she did very well in all her meets, I think she was in somewhat of a disadvantage going into the state competition. Most, if not all her competitors were competing L7 all year, some even repeating. My concern with your daughter is no matter how I look at it, repeating L6, practicing L6 routines does not lead to a any progression that makes sense. Admittedly, I am not a coach and my daughter has been in gymnastics for only 4 years, but if she repeats L6 even for the first part of the year, continues to practice L6 routines, it shortens the time for her to master L7 or do better in L7. And if she goes to L8 the next season, having a whole year of L7 is certainly more beneficial than having a half year. Having said all that, I also believe going through the levels quickly is a path taken by those who want to go elite. A steady conservative progression is a path taken by many. Ultimately, what will benefit your daughter depends on her goals and what is comfortable for her and what will make her happy.

While I agree with this wholeheartedly, as well as the arguments made about spending money on L6 meets that should be level 7 meets, the one point I tried to make early on is that we are really talking only about 3 months of the childs life continuing with level 6. In the scheme of her progression to level 10, I highly doubt this will stop her or really "slow her down." I say that becasue the gymmie is 10, not 12 or 13, where the chance of getting to level 10 start to get smaller and smaller.

My DD is a 12-year old level 6 and her goal (which I FULLY support) is not to repeat ANY levels. This is because she got a late start in the sport and wants to make level 10 so she can compete in college, and we compete the fall and spring at one level. That is simply our gym's philosophy. For most of our gymnasts, this is a very sensible approach and works well. The couple of phenoms that come through would be held back if forced to do a full year at a level.

Very complex issue, in my opinion.

 

[gymgal]

Cbone, of course all gymnasts are worthy of respect. It's *perspective* we are trying instill in the parents of the L2-3 gymnasts. If your dd is still competing in a few years, you'll understand and will question why you ever felt this way about the lower levels. And you may even kick yourself for spending so much money on competition expenses instead of just letting her train to level 5. Been there, done that....

 

[Muddlethru]

While I agree with this wholeheartedly, as well as the arguments made about spending money on L6 meets that should be level 7 meets, the one point I tried to make early on is that we are really talking only about 3 months of the childs life continuing with level 6. In the scheme of her progression to level 10, I highly doubt this will stop her or really "slow her down." I say that becasue the gymmie is 10, not 12 or 13, where the chance of getting to level 10 start to get smaller and smaller.

My DD is a 12-year old level 6 and her goal (which I FULLY support) is not to repeat ANY levels. This is because she got a late start in the sport and wants to make level 10 so she can compete in college, and we compete the fall and spring at one level. That is simply our gym's philosophy. For most of our gymnasts, this is a very sensible approach and works well. The couple of phenoms that come through would be held back if forced to do a full year at a level.

Very complex issue, in my opinion.

I agree with you as well lizzieLac. In fact, I was going to add at the end of my previous post that the OP may realize that by the time her daughter reaches L9, everything evens out so to speak and the L6 repeat will seem inconsequential. However, without knowing what the future holds (she may quit before L9, etc.), I feel it is good to address the present concern and get her to the level I feel she belongs. At the present, all things considered, and even going through the general channels/protocol, my humble opinion is that the OP's daughter should be moved up to L7, barring any legitimate gym limitations, etc. If she were my daughter, I would fight for her to be moved up.

To gymgal, my sentiments exactly.

 

[cbone]

Cbone, of course all gymnasts are worthy of respect. It's *perspective* we are trying instill in the parents of the L2-3 gymnasts. If your dd is still competing in a few years, you'll understand and will question why you ever felt this way about the lower levels. And you may even kick yourself for spending so much money on competition expenses instead of just letting her train to level 5. Been there, done that....

I watch the older girls at our gym and I 100% agree that the difficulty increases significantly. The increases in difficulty and complexity from level to level is so cool to see and is well-designed (at least in USAG, I know nothing about other countries except for what little I've read here). If you are looking to give me some perspective, I already have it. I have been studying Levels 4 and 5 diligently. I have an appreciation for the challenges my daughter has on the immediate horizon. I have watched gymnast at even higher levels and I see what they do.

All that said, I will NEVER change the way I view competition. Competition is beautiful at every level, in and of itself. Some of the greatest athletic competitions I have ever seen have been at youth competitions. Just because an athlete is beginning their chosen sport, that doesn't mean that their efforts in the heat of battle are not inspiring. That has nothing to do with the amount of skill that has been developed, it is a measure of will and determination to do your best under the pressure and immediacy of the moment.

I guess that was my message to OP. That is, until I realized that repeating meant an EXTRA competition season and the requisite financial burden. That becomes another issue.

To the poster that pointed out that my daughter's teammate should be up uptraining instead of working Level 3 routines- uptraining and conditioning is all they've done this summer. Believe me, this girl doesn't need to work on Level 3 routines.

 

[bogwoppit]

Can we keep the post on track, perhaps the L3 debate could be taken to a new thread if it needs further exploration. I am sure the OP is feeling a tad hijacked at this point.

 

[LizzieLac]

At the present, all things considered, and even going through the general channels/protocol, my humble opinion is that the OP's daughter should be moved up to L7, barring any legitimate gym limitations, etc. If she were my daughter, I would fight for her to be moved up.

Oh, so would I!

 

[iwannacoach]

I truely believe that this kid has a chance to experience something few gymnasts do, and for my love of this sport as an art form I am dismayed that so many parents don't get it.

I was lucky as a gymnast to have found a sport that melded my physical gifts with all of my emotional quirks and mental inclinations, resulting in some pretty amazing (to me anyway) performances. I don't blame you for not getting some of the points I've tried to make because being a parent allows you so little access into a gymnasts inner experience.

I will try to frame that inner experience by saying there were routines that I performed where I could feel every motion happen exactly as I intended it to be. I was able to express as a creative being what I thought a skill should look like and how the mechanics of motion should be used. I was able to advance my concept so well that other gymnasts and their coaches were trying to mimic the techniques I used. I can't say enough how fortunate and lucky I was to have found this sport that allowed me the unique experience to meld my mind and body to experience something few have.

One of the great things about JO is that the multi-level concept allow a medium through which children have the option, or opportunity to experience what I did. That is my main point of interest in this whole thread, that this child enjoys this one extreme made possible by our system.

I suspect that this will be lost on many, both coaches and parents, many who seem quick to point out why someone elses child is being harmed or is doing harm in some way that affects others in the system. There are a few inconsistencies that bother me, many of which have a flip side.....

Scores aren't what my child is in the sport for.....used in the context by some that a 37 is a defining condition that requires upward mobility in a fair world, but your own dd scores don't mean anything. Please live your own logic. I believe scores do pale compared to thje greater significance of an experience that teaches a child lessons about investing in themselves, and it is whithin that context that I mention the achievement of ranking in the top ten in the country.

Scores are inconsistent and not a measure of.....Well I can't argue that point, but I seriously doubt a kid scoring a 38.5 is being gifted any more than the rest of the field. While have mentioned scores, it has been done in the context of a higher pursuit to excellence. While it is a flawed system it is still the system.

So if you genuinely want it to be about, and only about participation, and personal developement, please tell me how this child staying a L6 for 6 more months while seriously uptraining, violates your concept of personal developement. Please tell me your objections based on the premise that this child embraces L6 goals she has set for herself, and that her parents wish to support it now that they have considered the positive aspects of dd coaches request.

Coach wants her for team score......I doubt the coach would keep her back for team score, but would use that as an additional enticement to persuade them. Really, how many coaches do you think are going to take even the amount of time the frequent contributors to this post have taken, to lay out every reason, pro, con,...... So in that context the coach will conjure up possibly positive argument, even though I wouldn't embrace the notion of dd leading a team to glory, I believe he/she used it to achieve what they thought to be a successfull outcome


Ther are other conflicts in points made with-in posts, but I just don't have the time to contribute any. My only hope is that all of you will view this thread from a "what if" perspective that seeks to validate the positive rather than the negative aspects of a L6 repeat, ans while you do consider this as the first, best, and possibly the only chance this child has to realize the same satisfaction I recieved from the sport.

 

[cbone]

Ignorant question alert!

Do states have more than one state championship per year? In our state, it's spring only. If OP's state is like mine and her daughter is competing Level 6 in the fall and Level 7 in the spring- how will her daughter's score help the Level 6 team at state?!?

 

[gasrgoose]

While I agree with this wholeheartedly, as well as the arguments made about spending money on L6 meets that should be level 7 meets, the one point I tried to make early on is that we are really talking only about 3 months of the childs life continuing with level 6. In the scheme of her progression to level 10, I highly doubt this will stop her or really "slow her down." I say that becasue the gymmie is 10, not 12 or 13, where the chance of getting to level 10 start to get smaller and smaller.

My DD is a 12-year old level 6 and her goal (which I FULLY support) is not to repeat ANY levels. This is because she got a late start in the sport and wants to make level 10 so she can compete in college, and we compete the fall and spring at one level. That is simply our gym's philosophy. For most of our gymnasts, this is a very sensible approach and works well. The couple of phenoms that come through would be held back if forced to do a full year at a level.

Very complex issue, in my opinion.

I disagree with the part in bold. In this case it's not just the 3 months off for competition season, it's a year. Continuing to practice level 6 routines for a year, when she could have been focused on level 7 could make a difference in her long term goals. And it seems (from the OP's posts) that the main reason is because the coach needs her score. 6 months is a long time for a 10 year old gymnast to advance skills. When is she going to learn her optional floor, bars and beam routine? Even if she already has them for next spring, as all our team optional gymnasts do. She can't rehearse them regularly while she is competing level 6.


But I also fully agree with your last statement. It's a complex issue that needs to be discussed at the gym. It's made for an interesting discussion here and given me a couple of nice breaks from work.

 

[wallinbl]

Ignorant question alert!

Do states have more than one state championship per year? In our state, it's spring only. If OP's state is like mine and her daughter is competing Level 6 in the fall and Level 7 in the spring- how will her daughter's score help the Level 6 team at state?!?

In Florida, compulsory season is in fall and states are in fall. Optional season is in spring and states are in spring. It certainly happens with gymnasts here that they do 6 in fall and 7 in spring (though it's more common for gymnasts to do 6 in fall, skip the immediate spring and do 7 the following spring).

 

[cbone]

In Florida, compulsory season is in fall and states are in fall. Optional season is in spring and states are in spring. It certainly happens with gymnasts here that they do 6 in fall and 7 in spring (though it's more common for gymnasts to do 6 in fall, skip the immediate spring and do 7 the following spring).

One meet season per year seems like a bummer. I've always thought of competition as the payoff for hard work.

If OPs state is like FL, everything is falling into place and making sense. I know this is a bit of a tangent, but if it is like wallinbl describes and the coach "needs (OP's daughters) score", would it be fair to ask the gym to pick up a portion of the comp fees? Then again, there may be NCAA issues with that, but it seems fair...

 

[gasrgoose]

One meet season per year seems like a bummer. I've always thought of competition as the payoff for hard work

I agree! My gymnast just the other night asked why her competition season was short. Her brother plays baseball from january to August and her sister shows horses year round. She only gets 6,7 or 8 meets and wants to compete more.....

 

[mommyof1]

I stated this earlier...



Our JO team philosophy is not written...it is discussed at the bar. I will try to sum it up...

• Our team comes before the individual due to the fact that one individual can disrupt the entire team. If this is taking place we will remove the one to make sure our other team individuals are getting what they deserve.
• Our team goal is to get back to where we were at one time...crankin' at L10...not L4...not L6.
• Since our team goal is to produce a L10 team...all gymnasts are always in training for L10...not the next level up. L4 are training for L10...so are L5...L6...L7...etc. The gymnasts know this...from the very beginning.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something that will come up...but we are basically a L10 progressive club. We are trying to win the L10 team competition at the State level. We progress each individual gymnast towards our team goal of being part of our L10 team.

No disrespect intended, but this makes it sound kind of like your club is in it for the glory of the coaches and not for the development of the kids. As a parent, I want to hear "Our goal is to take all of our gymnasts, including your daughter, as far as they can go, ideally to success at level 10." Not "If I don't think your kid is going to help my team win at level 10 several years down the road, she's not worth my time now."

 

[bogwoppit]

I agree! My gymnast just the other night asked why her competition season was short. Her brother plays baseball from january to August and her sister shows horses year round. She only gets 6,7 or 8 meets and wants to compete more.....

Move to Quebec, gymmies cannot compete until they are in second grade, in fact in the year they turn eight. Also a successful gymmie will have four meets a year, assuming they make Provincials, which is ridiculously hard to qualify for at the lower levels. Until L5/6 comps are regional and they do not even advance to Provincials unless they are 10 or over.

The US has a much more unusual comp system than the rest of the world. Doing ten or more meets and just about everyone going to states, and tiny meet groups of less than 20, plus medals to more than the first three places are not the norm anywhere else.

The OP needs to work out what she thinks is best for her dd, affording a fall comp season and a spring comp season is definitely an issue when meet fees can be $100 a time plus travel etc. I would be happy for my kid to train 7 and compete in spring.

 

[maryRS]

The US may have a more unusual system compared to other countries with regard to gymnastics, but with regard to how the US does everything else it fits right in line. We are a more is better society here in the US. I can't believe the difference in the amount of soccer my 14 year old plays compared to my 20 year old. And my 20 year old is a scholarship athlete still playing, so it's not like he was a recreational player. Today, some 8 year olds are doing the same amount of tournaments that he did as a 15 year old doing showcase tournaments. It is truly crazy. I think it is just how we do things, no matter what the sport, we do it big.

Move to Quebec, gymmies cannot compete until they are in second grade, in fact in the year they turn eight. Also a successful gymmie will have four meets a year, assuming they make Provincials, which is ridiculously hard to qualify for at the lower levels. Until L5/6 comps are regional and they do not even advance to Provincials unless they are 10 or over.

The US has a much more unusual comp system than the rest of the world. Doing ten or more meets and just about everyone going to states, and tiny meet groups of less than 20, plus medals to more than the first three places are not the norm anywhere else.

The OP needs to work out what she thinks is best for her dd, affording a fall comp season and a spring comp season is definitely an issue when meet fees can be $100 a time plus travel etc. I would be happy for my kid to train 7 and compete in spring.