Scoring between states

[NGL780309]

I always read everyone's meet reports and they are my favorite part of CB. I had a question though regarding scoring. I will often see someone post about their DD's state meet and the scores seem so low. In our state sometimes a 36.00 won't even qualify you to state from south/north state depending on your age group. I'll see a post where a 34AA is placing really high at state. A 34AA at just a regular local meet wouldn't find you near the podium either. Is there a big difference in scoring among states? Obviously since we have south/north state before actual state you can gather that I live in one of the really big states.

 

[10.0]

For compulsory levels a 36 here would be a huge score. Our girls need a 35 to move up and it is a struggle for many of them and their gymnastic abilities are not different than the majority of the videos I see posted here. We also are in a big state. I have no idea why it differs so much state to state either.

 

[flipper's fan]

36 AA is usally at the top around here. There are a few 37s, only once have I seen a 38. The scores tend to be lower in the first two years of the new compulsory routines and really get up there in the fourth year and beyond.

 

[NGL780309]

My question, to someone more knowledgable about this than myself, is whether my state just overscores or is this just an incredibly competitive state?

If I'm looking at a state meet for this year, a 35ish is last place! The top girls are all scoring 38's and there were even a few 39's. I know from going to meets that some girls scoring 34 didn't even qualifty to south/north state from district and then at that competition girls scoring 36's wouldn't even qualify to state.

I haven't ever had the opportunity to compare to other states at this level. I know at the optional level when you go to regionals if there are 7 spots to Nationals the majority of those spots will go to girls from my state. So at that level I know this state is just super competitive.

 

[NotAMom]

It doesn't make sense in general to compare scores from one meet to the next, so what's the point (except for curiosity) in doing the same between states. Every state has its own regulation for what it take to advance further. Some states are far easier than others.

At the states in my state in recent years, L4/5 scores are typically very high. At L6 scores are tougher. Then, at L7 and beyond, only the cream of the crop gets 37 or more which typically is found in the younger age group.

 

[Megley]

If you are in Texas, which is not clear to me but I assume it must be either Texas or California, I think the high scores are driven by both of the factors you mentioned. First, there are just a lot more gyms and gymnasts competing and the environment - even in compulsories - is very competitive and so you are going necessarily to have more girls who are training more hours and more intensely than in states where compulsories are not so competitive. With such a large pool of gymnasts, there are going to be more girls who excel.

In addition, I believe that Texas does have somewhat higher scoring. For instance, I have seen several youtube videos with girls getting 10.0s on routines. There has never been a 10.0 at any meet I have attended in my state. It's as though the judges just don't give them as a matter of principal. My friend's dd got a 9.975 on bars at Level 4 and that is the closest I've seen. So there may also be some differences between states in judging.

I'm in Virginia and the highest scores at the State meets here are usually in the 38s. Again, as a reference point my friend's dd has won states at every level she has competed (4, 5, 6, and 7) and her AA score has ranged from 38.4-38.8. An AA in the mid-36s to 37s will generally get you on the podium, depending on your age group. As NotaMom pointed out, at the higher levels, the younger age groups are the most competitive. An older Level 7 might do quite well with a 35 AA whereas a younger girl would not even get a medal.

 

[NGL780309]

It doesn't make sense in general to compare scores from one meet to the next, so what's the point (except for curiosity) in doing the same between states. Every state has its own regulation for what it take to advance further. Some states are far easier than others.

At the states in my state in recent years, L4/5 scores are typically very high. At L6 scores are tougher. Then, at L7 and beyond, only the cream of the crop gets 37 or more which typically is found in the younger age group.

I wasn't aware each state had it's own regulation for what it takes to advance further. What do you mean by that?

I was comparing and asking because I found it interesting and thought someone might have some insight such as, typcially this area judges super harsh and this area is known to judge quite a bit easier. For optionals at least I know every year the team would go to a certain meet in the same state and the first year they thought their scores were low and over time they just realized that state judged a bit harsher than they were used to at home.

Comparing from meet to meet is always difficult, but I think if you are looking at an average over a course of season you can definitely see trends. Certainly the judging is meant to be uniform across all regions/states.

 

[NGL780309]

I am from one of those states, but in my 10 years plus of attending meets I've never seen a 10 at a real meet. I've heard of some, but never seen them. They are definitely rare. I've only seen them at some of the big invites in the event final/all star team things some of these meets have. I think they are meant to be fun and certainly seeing a 10 is fun. Even seeing a 9.9 is very, very rare at a regualr meet. At the Optional level I haven't found my state to judge easier. The girls seem to actually score a bit higher at regionals and Nationals than at home.

Maybe we should move!

If you are in Texas, which is not clear to me but I assume it must be either Texas or California, I think the high scores are driven by both of the factors you mentioned. First, there are just a lot more gyms and gymnasts competing and the environment - even in compulsories - is very competitive and so you are going necessarily to have more girls who are training more hours and more intensely than in states where compulsories are not so competitive. With such a large pool of gymnasts, there are going to be more girls who excel.

In addition, I believe that Texas does have somewhat higher scoring. For instance, I have seen several youtube videos with girls getting 10.0s on routines. There has never been a 10.0 at any meet I have attended in my state. It's as though the judges just don't give them as a matter of principal. My friend's dd got a 9.975 on bars at Level 4 and that is the closest I've seen. So there may also be some differences between states in judging.

I'm in Virginia and the highest scores at the State meets here are usually in the 38s. Again, as a reference point my friend's dd has won states at every level she has competed (4, 5, 6, and 7) and her AA score has ranged from 38.4-38.8. An AA in the mid-36s to 37s will generally get you on the podium, depending on your age group. As NotaMom pointed out, at the higher levels, the younger age groups are the most competitive. An older Level 7 might do quite well with a 35 AA whereas a younger girl would not even get a medal.

 

[Empowered]

Here in NorCal there is a State Team which is the top 6 overall scores at States for levels 5 and 6. This year the State Team had scores in the 37.2 to 37.6 range for both levels. That means even the highest scorers here did not score in the 38's.

For 2009 the State Team scores for L6 ranged from 37.275 to 37.875, so still no 38's. The L5 team for that year was scored a little higher, 37.550 to 38, but there was just one 38.

To put that in perspective with gymnast talent though, I know for a fact several of the girls that are on the State Teams that are only scoring in the 37's are girls who made the National TOPs A camp so they are definitely not lacking in talent, they just aren't being scored as high as some other states.

For the optional levels, the L7 States in 2010 only had 3 38's, and L8-L10 had zero 38's.

To see a true scoring comparison of all these states against each other you would have to look at a National type competition. At L9 Western Nationals last year there were no 38's at all.

I know the NorCal gyms so I can see there are several champions from this area but if you want to look at the states stacked up against each other this is probably a good site to look at.

Women's Jr. Olympic Level 9 Western Championships

 

[Megley]

I've heard of some, but never seen them. They are definitely rare. I've only seen them at some of the big invites in the event final/all star team things some of these meets have. I think they are meant to be fun and certainly seeing a 10 is fun. Even seeing a 9.9 is very, very rare at a regualr meet. At the Optional level I haven't found my state to judge easier. The girls seem to actually score a bit higher at regionals and Nationals than at home.

Maybe we should move!

Well, I have never even heard of one in our state, but perhaps gymdog would know better. Nobody gets a 9.9 until States, when scores do have a tendency to be higher. I do think they are more of a compulsory level phenomena.

I don't think we are in a particularly hard state for judging, hence the plethora of 37s at my dd's first L7 meet. I think Maryland is much tougher.

 

[momof5]

Our state is super tough on the compulsaries, but seem to be average for the optionals. It is very rare to get much above a 36 in compulsaries. Last year in my DD age group at L5 states the all around champion had a 36 something. She was a 2nd year L5 and and Tops team member. I have seen the you tube video and she did wonderful. The first place beam routine scored a 9.15. It is rare at any compulsary competion to score much above a 9. DD is doing L7 this year and really excited to get some big scores (like the ones on youtube mom!)

 

[gymnastbeth]

My state has REALLY easy rules compared to some of these! Compulsories only have to get a 31 to score to sectionals, and at sectionals, you have to get a 32. A 34 would place on the podium at invitationals, and a 36 would definitely do well at states. Optionals, the rules and how people score is a lot different though. Level 7 is similar, but level 8 is when you can start going to regionals, and the scoring is a lot tougher. The competition is also a lot better. Highest score I've ever seen is a 9.8. And that was a flawless routine.

 

[tkilinski]

I'm in Texas.
One of our gymnasts scored a 37.7 at state in Jr. A1 and got 7th.
We could not believe it.
These girls were like, level 5 olympians!

 

[flipper's fan]

In April 2009 I saw a level 4 get a 10 on vault in Maryland.
My dd is usually in the youngest age group for her level. The same two girls have been champions and stste champions in her age for the last three seasons. They score in the 37s. There are very few 38s, the 38s are only in compulsories.

 

[hakunamatata]

I moved to a new state part of the way through my time as a competitive gymnast. In state 1, it was tough to get a 33AA. I was winning every meet with 33.5's, and I won a few with 32s even. When I moved to the new state I was scoring 34s and 35s easily, and some 36s, with the same routines of the same caliber. Those won meets for me in state 2, but I know in some states those scores wouldn't even have gotten me on the podium. I don't know why it seems to differ between states.

 

[NotAMom]

I wasn't aware each state had it's own regulation for what it takes to advance further. What do you mean by that?

What I mean is that the system used to determine what is needed to advance to states (or any other prior intermediate level) varies from state to state. I think it's driven by how the state organization feel about kids having that opportunity. Around here, making states is almost a given, particularly at L4/5. In other states, not so much.

Comparing from meet to meet is always difficult, but I think if you are looking at an average over a course of season you can definitely see trends. Certainly the judging is meant to be uniform across all regions/states.

That is exactly what I was trying to point out. Consistency from meet to meet is not what I would look for, especially for the lower compulsories. What's important to me is that the results within the same meet is fair. (it's like being curved for college grades)

For instance, the same vault from one regular meet to the next can score from low 7s to mid 8s. But, given the same field, this vault should place in about the same spot.

When it comes to high scoring, we have seen several 10.0s in recent year, mostly on L4 vault. In fact, there was one L4 state meet I saw more than 10 kids that scored a 10.0.