WAG Sending kids home

[John]

Agree with the above. Psychology teaches us that the severity of a punishment is determined by the punished not the punisher.

 

[kitkat]

I personally don't like it. I believe our gym has threatened but not sure if they have actually sent anyone home. But it was for attitude not skill development.
If someone is scared to do a skill its the coaches job to break down that skill so they can get it.
I remember when Alex learned her BHS BLO. It took her 8 minutes to get one done. Which of course couldn't happen over the long term. At the time her coach put the beam down low and everytime she did it successfully she had her wind the beam 10 times. Until eventually it got to FIG.
Fear is not just over come by a coach saying get over it.

I wish that every time a coach yelled at their gymnast and put them to tears would be sent home every time. I think yelling to get results is horrific and completely unnecessary.

A gymnast is going to have a bad day once in a while. They are still just kids.

 

[amiandjim]

I would have no problem with a gymmie sent home for bad attitude or failure to work hard (provided warnings had been given). To send a gymnast home for a very normal human reaction (fear) sends the wrong message IMO.

I am 40 years-old (yikes!!) and I still vividly recall standing on the beam at 9-10 years of age with my coach screaming "just go or get out!!" When I couldn't/wouldn't do a bhs. Did that help me in any way, shape, or form?? NO!!!!! It made me cry more and really just reinforced my fear.

 

[Blindside]

Personally I think this is a terrible coaching strategy and I would never use it with my gymnasts, the only reason I have ever sent a gymnast home from training is if they are sick or injured to the point where training would be unsafe.

I have threatened to send a few kids home if behaviour does not shape up, but this is very young recreational kids, never a kid past level one or two and I have never had to follow through because the warning has been enough to improve behaviour.

What many coaches fail to understand is that the gymnasts and coaches want the same thing. We want our gymnasts to be great and our gymnast want to be great. We are not fighting against the, to be great, we are working together to achieve this goal.

Kids just don't fail to go for their series because they are lazy. There is always a reason. Perhaps they are scared, fear should never be punished, it will just make the fear worse. Fear is a good healthy response to not being mentally ready to do a skill and should indicate to us that the gymnast needs to step back to drills. It could be because they don't believe they can do it, then we as coaches need to find ways to help them improve that self belief. It could be a lack of motivation, so we need to help our gymnasts find their fire.

I wish all coaches would think like this! So my 8yo DD has gotten and lost her BHS step out on high beam several times because of fear A few weeks ago she bailed mid air and fell on her back on the beam. After that she is terrified of that skill. She can still do it on the low beam and middle beam but not on the high beam. One of her coaches kept her on beam for the whole time during the two last practices and even threatened her to call me and send her home if she would not throw it by a certain time! Needless to say that did not help her get the skill back, on the contrary that only made her even more frustrated. I have tried to tell her she will be okay and that she just needs more time but she is already dreading tomorrow's practice. I know talking to the coach will not help and will be considered interfering with the coaching strategy...it is really disappointing...

 

[kecks]

this is a very red flag to me. this is abusive and moreover does for most kids not work. you can not fight fear with more fear (coaches goal is obviously to make your daughter more afraid of her punishment than she is afraid of the skill). even if this unethical (!!) strategy sometimes works for the short term (which explains why the coaches keep doing it - it seems to be working...) it will increase - or even breed the fear in the first place if the cause of the lost skill are neuronal development issues - the real underlying cause of the fear of the skill: some or another form of anxiety. it just gets pushed to the side and this fear will raise its ugly head later on again and it usually spreads like wildfire to other skills (generalisation: "i am a fearful gymnast" or "i am scared easily" instead of "i have a problem with skill x at the moment but i m taking step 1 - 2 -3 to work on it.").

btw, this is (performanbce, sports) psychology 101. you can (!) expect a coach to know about it and use it accordingly.

 

[ayyyrial]

Another thing about stuff like this is that a lot of times, things happening outside of the gym can contribute to having a "bad day". Especially at middle school or high school age, bad days in or out of the gym can happen pretty regularly. At that age people tend to have low control over their reaction to things, small set-backs feel huge, and it's easy to get stuck in a negative attitude. When I was in gymnastics, I found that I really had to make sure I ate and slept enough, or I was bound to have a breakdown at practice. If I was having problems with my friends at school, it would really impact my ability to do well in the gym. So I think it's good for coaches to recognize that sometimes life is hard and they just need to be patient. I had a coach who was extremely patient with "problem kids" around middle school age, and while it was sometimes frustrating for teammates, I think it was probably good for those kids to have a low-pressure environment during their difficult days.

 

[gasrgoose]

What many coaches fail to understand is that the gymnasts and coaches want the same thing. We want our gymnasts to be great and our gymnast want to be great. We are not fighting against the, to be great, we are working together to achieve this goal.

Kids just don't fail to go for their series because they are lazy. There is always a reason. Perhaps they are scared, fear should never be punished, it will just make the fear worse. Fear is a good healthy response to not being mentally ready to do a skill and should indicate to us that the gymnast needs to step back to drills. It could be because they don't believe they can do it, then we as coaches need to find ways to help them improve that self belief. It could be a lack of motivation, so we need to help our gymnasts find their fire.



You appear to be a very thoughtful coach. please keep it up.

I recently told our coach that my daughter has more invested in her gymnastics than he does. I was polite and very matter of fact. I think it was an eye opening thought for him.

If my daughter was sent home from practice, my first thought would go to "how long until she is kicked off the team or quits"

 

[hearts_and_stars]

I think some coaches will send gymmies home when they struggle with their series on beam so that they don't build up a mental block with it. It's kind of along the lines of 'out of sight, out of mind'--even they're removed from the event, they can still see the beam and know they got 'kicked off' because they wouldn't go for their series. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I do think that is how some coaches approach the 'won't go for it' issue. I'm not sure that's what's happening here, though. It sounds to me like your DD was sent home because COACH was frustrated with her and COACH didn't know how to deal with said frustration. In my opinion, that's not okay (but is definitely something that's happened to DD before we changed coaches).

 

[Aussie_coach]

I think some coaches will send gymmies home when they struggle with their series on beam so that they don't build up a mental block with it. It's kind of along the lines of 'out of sight, out of mind'--even they're removed from the event, they can still see the beam and know they got 'kicked off' because they wouldn't go for their series. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I do think that is how some coaches approach the 'won't go for it' issue. I'm not sure that's what's happening here, though. It sounds to me like your DD was sent home because COACH was frustrated with her and COACH didn't know how to deal with said frustration. In my opinion, that's not okay (but is definitely something that's happened to DD before we changed coaches).

So if that is the coaches plan, then the last thing that happens for that kid in training is that they won't get their series, so they go home and stew about it and think about it and nothing else. Wouldn't it work better to get them to move to an event where they are doing well and finish on a positive note, if you are trying to prevent them form developing a mental block. These are competitive gymnasts, and if they are doing series they are optional level competitive gymnasts, they are not going to go home and not think about it.

 

[profmom]

I've never trained gymnasts, but I have trained horses. The first thing a trainer learns is that you never end a training session with a failure, even if it means defining success pretty far downward. Now occasionally my son has had to be kicked off an event, but in every instance, it's been because he was close to getting something but had worked himself beyond the point of diminishing returns and needed to move on to the next event. That's the situation where it is appropriate for the coach to put on the brakes!

 

[jenjean70]

I wish all coaches would think like this! So my 8yo DD has gotten and lost her BHS step out on high beam several times because of fear A few weeks ago she bailed mid air and fell on her back on the beam. After that she is terrified of that skill. She can still do it on the low beam and middle beam but not on the high beam. One of her coaches kept her on beam for the whole time during the two last practices and even threatened her to call me and send her home if she would not throw it by a certain time! Needless to say that did not help her get the skill back, on the contrary that only made her even more frustrated. I have tried to tell her she will be okay and that she just needs more time but she is already dreading tomorrow's practice. I know talking to the coach will not help and will be considered interfering with the coaching strategy...it is really disappointing...

That happened to my son last year on the giant on parallel bars. He could do it at the beginning of the summer but was never comfortable with it. By the fall he was freaking out about the idea of competing it and would freeze. One time he was physically made to do 100 wrap ons in a row. He made about 50 before his hands were torn and hurting and he couldn't go on. It was a bad day for the coach and gymnast alike. Another time he was sent home for not going for it. He's not a good communicator and couldn't explain what was happening. I thought he was being stubborn and so did the coaches. I was not a good mom to him at that time because I did not advocate for him. Then somebody here suggested some books about fear and I bought them and read them. I also talked to the coaches about his fears and they changed their approach. By the end of the season he was a different kid. He got 2nd AA in the region and he just competed Future Stars. He didn't make nationals (because he is not as tight and clean as he needs to be) but he did the routines well and even did the giant on parallel bars. Thankfully our coaches were open to hearing what he needed and making the changes.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I have never seen a kid sent home for not doing a skill (out of fear, block, whatever) but I *have* seen, and sgree with, gymnasts sent home for refusal to train period. Not difficult skills, more of an attitude and being uncoachable type thing. Never for a block on certain skills. Our coaches are pretty good at taking things back a notch and at the same time push for progress every day with those kids.
I have also seen gymnasts left behind on certain apparatus to finish assignments after everyone else has moved on (yup, usually beam!). Not normally the kids who may be struggling with a block, but others who for whatever reason did not get things done.

 

[Aero]

I'm sorry, but if a coach is sending kids home because they won't go for a skill, then that coach is imferior, uneducated, inexperienced, or just plain dumb. Sending kids home in the hope that it will motivate them is an example of when a coach doesn't know what to do, and just wishes to remove the problem instead of actually trying to solve the problem. It doesn't work.

Get real…

 

[Jenn's Jam]

I dont think this would be a good idea to do if I were a coach. 1. Gymnasts would just be sent home to probably go watch TV and eat cereal instead of at the least conditioning. 2. The parent of the gymmie would probably complain to the gym saying that they pay for her gymmie to be their and fears are apart of gym and you should not be sending them home just because of a fear. 3. All the gymmie would learn is that they have a strict coach and to be scared of the coach... And if she ever needs a spot from that coach she probably wouldnt trust her after that.

I've just learnt that if a coach is mean to gymmies the gymnasts don't usually trust that coach after that..
All in all this isnt a good idea.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

help me understand this "sending kids home because they won't for a skill" strategy.
Because right now I'm not happy!
Dd just called and told me I need to pick her up because she wouldn't go for her series on beam.
Now this has happened once last year while still under the compulsory coach. I didn't like it or understand what she hoped to accoumplish doing this but I let it go because dd was only a free weeks out from switching to optionals. That was months and months ago.
Dd has been doing this on beam fine but ya know it's gymnastics skills are going to come and go. That I'm fine with and understand.
I'm hoping for some insight before I contact the coaches. I do t see how this accomplishes anything. First of all, I'm paying for her to be there. Fears(if that's what this is, I'll talk to dd when I get her) are apart of gym. How is shaming a kid by sending her home for not going for a skill helping? Even if it's a skill they are capable of doing and have been doing?

it doesn't work long term.

 

[tumbletop]

Not something that's done at the gym where I coach (though I only coach two or three days a week and only bars skills and tumbling skills, so I am not around for conditioning or "doing the numbers" of routines so I can't say for certain it doesn't happen sometimes). Since I work a lot on skill progressions specifically, I am on the front line for new skill nerves/fears/mental blocks, and if I see a gymnast getting frustrated, upset, distracted, or overwhelmed, I'll send them to do some conditioning or stretching while they calm down and get themselves together, then try again, often backing down a few progression levels and working back up to where they struggled. This works most of the time, but if the block is big, I send them back to their main coach to work other events/skills/drills and then talk to the coach after practice about what we can do together to help that specific athlete, because their main coach obviously knows their quirks and what type of approach will work best better than I do. The only time I can imagine them being sent home would be if they're so worked up that nothing productive can be done and having them practice would potentially be distracting enough to cause injury...

 

[luvmygymmie]

The more I think about many (not all) coaches' responses to gymnasts' refusal to perform skills due to fear issues, the more concerned I become and wonder if it is a symptom of a bigger problem in USA gymnastics-a culture of do whatever is necessary to get gymnasts to perform at the highest level possible and ignore
dangerous and/or unhealthy coaching practices! The coaches' responses that I am concerned about isn't just sending gymnasts home for refusal to do a skill, it is giving gymnasts rope climbs or having them remain on the event for an extended period of time trying to get them to do the skill (even though they may be crying and visibly upset). I think many coaches that engage in these practices simply do not have the skills to manage refusal due to fear issues and it is not purposeful mistreatment. Is USA gymnastics mandating professional development in this area??? Are they taking a stance against coaching practices that may disempower or have negative emotional impacts on our gymnasts?? Gymnastics should be a sport that empowers our young girls and I fear that sometimes it may be doing the exact opposite.

 

[GymMom4]

The more I think about many (not all) coaches' responses to gymnasts' refusal to perform skills due to fear issues, the more concerned I become and wonder if it is a symptom of a bigger problem in USA gymnastics-a culture of do whatever is necessary to get gymnasts to perform at the highest level possible and ignore
dangerous and/or unhealthy coaching practices! The coaches' responses that I am concerned about isn't just sending gymnasts home for refusal to do a skill, it is giving gymnasts rope climbs or having them remain on the event for an extended period of time trying to get them to do the skill (even though they may be crying and visibly upset). I think many coaches that engage in these practices simply do not have the skills to manage refusal due to fear issues and it is not purposeful mistreatment. Is USA gymnastics mandating professional development in this area??? Are they taking a stance against coaching practices that may disempower or have negative emotional impacts on our gymnasts?? Gymnastics should be a sport that empowers our young girls and I fear that sometimes it may be doing the exact opposite.

Amen.

I completely agree with you.

 

[duyetanh]

Amen.

I completely agree with you.

Same, and glad this isnt my dds environment, as she would not flourish there.

 

[z2akids]

DD has a couple of teammates with fears/blocks. In fact, DD has had plenty of fears that manifest for days, weeks or even months. Coaches are good about working around fears or giving gymnasts alternatives to work.

The only times I know of girls being sent home is for behavior issues - poor team interactions, talking back to coavhes, etc. The coach will send the kids to the bench area for a bit if they are nit behaving well. If the behavior continues, they sometimes will send the girl home.