standing full

[twisting007bigflip]

how do you guys teach this? and what kind of lead up drills do you use?

I coach gymnastics for a living and have been for almost 20 years. I've coached anything from rec to mommy and me, pre team, usag L4-L9 team, rec team, I have always started these on trampoline teaching an arabian front tuck with a half twist at the end (jump, half turn, front flip, half twist, land)...never needing to spot. I use drills like "jump 1/2 turn roll down the wedge" and that leads to "jump 1/2 turn front flip to feet on the wedge" then the same drills on an 8"er. I also use "standing front from 2 panel mats stacked", then "standing front 1/2 twist from panels", and eventually "standing arabians from panels" and "standing arabian 1/2 twist from panels". I've never in my time had a problem teaching a kid a standing full with these progressions...and usually it doesn't take a kid very long to learn it this way for me....but now I have a question...............

Is a standing full supposed to be what I describe, or, is a standing full supposed to be more of a standing whip with a full twist? Or a standing layout with a full twist?

I've never seen it taught as a standing straight flip with twist until a few weeks ago when I showed up at our teen tumbling for cheer class. The coach (who i very rarely am ever in the gym with) was "spotting" a girl (17 year old high schooler) on a standing full off of one folded panel mat onto an 8"er. The coach kept throwing her over and over, and the kid kept twisting 3/4 of the way and either landing on her side or on her knees. The coach has been spotting this kid in this very same way for more than a year. The coach asked me how to "fix" the standing full. When I suggested the way I teach it, she didn't take my suggestions and kept doing what she was doing. So I go to the guy who owns the gym and asked him his opinion...he tells me that a standing full is supposed to be like a run tumbling full, only standing...he didn't tell me that I was wrong, but he told me that the way she was teaching it was fine.



I am now way confused.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

a standing full is a standing full. no matter the surface you learn it on, tramp, tumble trak, etc; it must be done the same on a hard floor. the trick is in jump/power from the legs. and the ability of the athlete to follow thru with their arms.

a standing arabian is a different skill and especially if 1 or the other will be put on a beam.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

ok?? I think the "learning surfaces" that I explained earlier didn't really have anything to do with my real question...they were just for more of a mental vision of how I've been doing things - which, is totally wrong, apparentlly. I guess the better way is to just spot the kid over and over and over for more than a year, doing the same thing over and over - never getting anywhere. Yep, that sounds good.

what drills do you use to train a kid to do a standing full, dunno? and do you teach them to do it in a tuck position? pike? layout? And what would be the point in training a standing full to do it anywhere else besides the beam? I didn't realize that skills were different on floor than beam in that aspect. I just usually train skills so that they will eventually take them to the beam.

 

[CoachTodd]

Most of the standing fulls I've seen were more like Arabians with an extra 1/2 twist. This is mainly due to the fact that they were taught a tucked standing full off of a high surface without already having a layout full out of a moving tumbling pass. I think they need to learn to jump first so I like the idea of going up to a mat.

 

[tumble-ready]

Standing fulls are usually done in the tucked or pucked position, depending on the athlete's strength. I don't recommend teaching this skill unless the athlete already has a full from a round-off or round-off back handspring and has been doing it for quite a while with ease. Learning this skill too early in their career can and probably will develop an early twisting habit that will hurt them in the long run. Because this skill is done much quicker than a normal full, most athletes focus on the twist more than the flip and therefore end up with their feet dragging behind them causing them to land short on both the flip and twist.
I teach this skill by first having them do a standing tuck without grabbing the legs and leaving their arms up (somewhat). Once they are comfortable with that, I have them do the standing tuck and put their arms in by their chest or to one side of their chest depending on the athlete.
Just like a normal full I emphasize that it is more important to do the flip and land on their feet than it is to make the twist. You can start these drills at the end of a tumble-trak onto a port-a-pit. They can begin to twist as soon as they begin to roll their feet up for the tuck. You can spot like a normal full to give them the feeling of this skill (because it is different than what they are use to), but let them experiment on their own first (with a watchful eye). The athlete will most likely make it just beyond a half pretty easily on their own before you need to spot. When the athlete is doing it on the tumble-trak on their own you can transition to the floor with mats springboard or what ever progressions you prefer.
Hope that is helpful!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

all of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^. good description of sequence. flipping is paramount to a complete skill/twist. and for beam, performing standing backs and tuck fulls in the open tuck position up on to a panel mat. for power? on skill cushions and resi's.

and twisting007, i wasn't being snarky with you in my response. and you're right. standing fulls should not be spotted ever. they won't learn them.

and they are slightly different when put on beam. decisions need to be made as to what foot is forward on take off and landing. and the variations therein.

 

[Typhoon]

It depends on the coach coaching. A lot of kids learn the standing full as an arabian with a half twist but I've seen it done in a layout (piked down and twisted early) and twisted a bit late (more similar to floor). So success can obviously be achieved in a variety of ways. In my opinion the best technique is the slightly later twist than an arabian but the athlete needs to have a good vertical jump to be able to perform the skill this way, for some athletes it's just not going to be possible and the next step would be the arabian with the half twist. My least favorite is the straight body position with the early twist.

Training this skill without having a full on floor is going to build a host of terrible habits that will be very hard to break.

 

[ScottyG978]

I've personally never landed a complete standing full, so I'm most likely not going to be much help. I've always made a pretty sold 3/4 into a squat position but I've never actually focused on the skill, just practiced it here and there. But I think a good idea is to think of where you want to go with the skill. I come from a cheer background so not only would I want to get a standing full, but sometime down the road I want to leave the option open for a standing double (I know, shooting high, but I want to eventually head in that direction). I'm 99% certian gymnasts never attempt standing doubles but I could be wrong. But either way of teaching it for the basic full, whether an arabian with a half, or pulling it like a normal full just tucking your knees over one shoulder should get the athlete around if he or she is physically capable. For cheer in particular, the arabian with a half is not ideal because in order to shoot for a double, you'll be attempting an arabian with a one and a half extra twist.. little excessive. Get where I'm coming from? Just thought I'd point that out and see if it helped.