Coaches Starting toe shoots

[BarCoach]

We've been mainly working clearhips since States (about 4 months). They are starting to come along fairly well, but I'd like to start working more toe shoots both to help clearhips and to use in the future if they end up better than clearhips. We've been doing sole circle dismounts and toe circles. I'd like to start letting them shoot to support to a block on strap bar. We're also going to work a late toe on drop to mat with a floor bar. Anything else I should be doing? Is it my imagination or are these going to be easier than clearhips? Why don't more people work and compete these instead of clearhips?

 

[BarCoach]

Also, maybe a silly question, but can they be done in a straddle or do they have to be done with feet together? Is one easier than the other?

 

[Gymsanity]

We've been mainly working clearhips since States (about 4 months). They are starting to come along fairly well, but I'd like to start working more toe shoots both to help clearhips and to use in the future if they end up better than clearhips. We've been doing sole circle dismounts and toe circles. I'd like to start letting them shoot to support to a block on strap bar. We're also going to work a late toe on drop to mat with a floor bar. Anything else I should be doing? Is it my imagination or are these going to be easier than clearhips? Why don't more people work and compete these instead of clearhips?

Great questions, I've thought the same myself. Toe shoots are much easier than clear hips, but I haven't had the nerve to compete them in compulsories because no one else is, and I'm afraid of getting a compositional deduction (please don't remind me there isn't one officially) We put 80% of our effort into CH's, and the rest into Stalders, toe shoots, etc. Please let us know if you compete them, as I would love to know how it goes for you. As for teaching the toe shoots, I wait quite a while before I teach a late drop, and do lots of spotting.

 

[gymjunkie]

I think that toe shoots are harder for compulsory kids. I say this, because we work both simultaneously at our gym and the clear hips always come first (even with the kids who end up being great at toe shoots).

 

[Gymsanity]

I think that toe shoots are harder for compulsory kids. I say this, because we work both simultaneously at our gym and the clear hips always come first (even with the kids who end up being great at toe shoots).

That's interesting. Maybe toe shoots come easier for us because we start introducing them all the way down into the tots classes? By the time they make it to pre-team, they already have a pretty good sole circle jump/shoot off at 45-90 degrees.

 

[gymjunkie]

That's interesting. Maybe toe shoots come easier for us because we start introducing them all the way down into the tots classes? By the time they make it to pre-team, they already have a pretty good sole circle jump/shoot off at 45-90 degrees.

We don't start them that soon! Can any of your compulsories toe shoot handstand?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Not easier, just depends on the kid, but WAY WAY WAY easier on us coaches to spot toe shoots instead of clear hips!!! LIKE

 

[Gymsanity]

We don't start them that soon! Can any of your compulsories toe shoot handstand?

Yes, but with bad form for most, but that's OK in my book. I've always believed that you have to have a skill before you can perfect it. We are now working on doing them with good form, so most are in the 30-45 degree range. After that, the shape and technique starts breaking down, but they are coming along rather quickly I believe.

 

[BarCoach]

We will continue to work them. After the first two days most of the girls can circle the bar with bent legs on straps and a couple with straight legs. 3 are close to circling on the real bar. Dismounts are still shooting out much lower than I'd like. I would LOVE to get someone competing one so we'll keep working them and I'll let you know

 

[Deleted member 14190]

No bent legs

 

[BarCoach]

Ok!

 

[gymjunkie]

Yes, but with bad form for most, but that's OK in my book. I've always believed that you have to have a skill before you can perfect it. We are now working on doing them with good form, so most are in the 30-45 degree range. After that, the shape and technique starts breaking down, but they are coming along rather quickly I believe.

Are you working late drops?

 

[Gymsanity]

'Are you working late drops?'
Great question!
Not for most who are just learning. I start with an early drop, one leg at a time. That takes most of the scary out of the trick until they get more comfortable with it. Later they realize that they can get only so much power out of an early drop, and that is a huge contributing factor in not being able to hold their shapes. So, I start introducing a later drop as they become more comfortable with them, and finally, I have them do a two legged late drop. I never cared for the single leg drop for the final product, but lately I've seen a couple that made me start to think 'hey, that doesn't look too bad.'

 

[BarCoach]

Bringing up this thread again with a question about when to start teaching a later drop but I think it is mostly already answered. We've been working these much less consistently since meet season has started but I have a couple girls (level 4s) who have taken to them pretty well. We're just doing them from a squat on, push back to straight legs, lift the hips and open the shoulders to support (instead of shooting toes). I'm spotting them pretty heavily still and I think they don't have enough power to really do it on their own.
GymSanity, I see you start with one foot stepping in then the other. Should that be my next step or should I try for a later two foot drop?

 

[gymdog]

Great questions, I've thought the same myself. Toe shoots are much easier than clear hips, but I haven't had the nerve to compete them in compulsories because no one else is, and I'm afraid of getting a compositional deduction (please don't remind me there isn't one officially) We put 80% of our effort into CH's, and the rest into Stalders, toe shoots, etc. Please let us know if you compete them, as I would love to know how it goes for you. As for teaching the toe shoots, I wait quite a while before I teach a late drop, and do lots of spotting.

I think the judges in your state would have to be ridiculously incompetent to take a compositional deduction in compulsories there is no composition. That said I have only seen a few stalders in compulsories, haven't seen toe shoots yet.