T&T Technical/stylistic differences between tumbling in gymnastics and TnT

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Are there significant technical or stylistic differences between power tumbling and the tumbling you would use in a floor routine? Routine construction aside, is a technically correct backhandspring/whipback/(insert skill here) the same in power tumbling as it is in artistic gymnastics?

In putting together lesson plans, I'm assuming that I can essentially teach each individual skill (roundoffs, backhandsprings, cartwheels, etc) exactly the same as I would to a gymnast. Are there any flaws or pitfalls that I need to watch out for?

 

[coachmolly]

I coached at a primarily TnT gym in both WAG and TnT classes and essentially taught all floor skills the same, especially at the beginner level. There is less emphasis on walkover skills, though I still found them helpful to teach to some kids (more so girls than boys).

 

[aerialriver]

When you teach twisting the arms need to be down at the sides and tight by the body. I know gymnastics is a bit more relaxed about arm placement

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

At this point, I think most of what this group will be working on will just be handstands, rolls, cartwheels, roundoffs, and backhandsprings.

One thing I've noticed with backhandsprings: power tumblers tend to do them with the hands turned out, whereas in gymnastics I've always taught them with the hands turned in. Is this just a stylistic quirk, or is there a mechanical reason for this?

 

[All Chalked Up]

At this point, I think most of what this group will be working on will just be handstands, rolls, cartwheels, roundoffs, and backhandsprings.

One thing I've noticed with backhandsprings: power tumblers tend to do them with the hands turned out, whereas in gymnastics I've always taught them with the hands turned in. Is this just a stylistic quirk, or is there a mechanical reason for this?

I have been wondering this myself. I was always taught that tumbling with hands turned out or in could damage your wrists.

 

[MaddieLynn]

I have worked and tumbled at a T&T only gym for 4 years and the coaches always hammer on the kids to turn their hands in to protect wrists and elbows.

Front tumbling is basically irrelevant other than forward rolls for very low levels. Occasionally we work on it just for fun.

Once you get to actual flips (back tucks etc), properly "pressing" the skill is VERY important for competition. This is the major difference I notice between T&T and artistic.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Pressing?

 

[MaddieLynn]

It's what we call the kick-out. I'll try to explain better using a back tuck as an example. The "press" is what we call the motion that gets the athlete from this position:

to this position:

While these pictures are from trampoline, it still applies to tumbling. Ideally, all "flips", whether they are back tucks, pikes, or layouts, need to be in the position of the second photograph at vertical. At my gym they always remind us to "kick out (or press) at 12 o'clock".

In this video, the gymnast does a nice back tuck with no press/kick out (last pass):



In this video, the gymnast attempts to press but it isn't done well as it occurs too late in the back tuck:



This one is better, but also a tiny bit late and slightly piked.



I can't for the life of me find a good quality video that shows a great kick-out on floor, although I've seen it in person, so I'll use a video of trampoline as an example:



Check out the back tuck & back pike in that video. Although it's easier to do a good press on trampoline, ideally it should be the same technique on floor. Additionally, see how she also presses out her tuck, straddle and pike jumps. In theory, what happens in a tuck jump press should be exactly the same as what happens in a back tuck press, only upside down.

Another interesting difference between artistic and T&T is that in the latter, you are allowed to compete different levels on the different apparatus. For example, before I broke my ankle, I competed level 5 on trampoline and floor, but level 6 on double mini.

 

[Chalky]

I think that Laschenova's first pass (back pike) on her 1988 compulsory floor routine is a good example of this. Also, Lilia Podkopayeva's last pass (back tuck) on her compulsory floor routine from the 1996 Olympics. Plus, they are both gorgeous routines to watch.
I tried to cut and paste the YouTube addresses, but I'm on my tablet, and couldn't figure out how to do that (yet). Maybe someone more savvy could add them?..

 

[iwannacoach]

I'd say it's better to start with a wag based tumbling program of progressions and skills, and then transition to power tumbling. Seems it's a lot easier to use more speed than it is to use less. Since a wag tumble pass is condensed into 55 ish feet the gymnast has to learn good technique and become as efficient as possible.

True, the transition to power tumbling may be a brief challenge when increasing speed and lengthening skills beyond the wag norm, but I'd rather solve that problem than to reteach tumbling basics to kids who've been trained to use speed and length that can't fit into a wag format.

Geez, they'd be off the mat by the end of there round off, and their 1st whip would take them right out the door and finish in the Burger King parking lot.

Can I gt some fries with that????

 

[coachmolly]

The issue of pressing/open out of saltos would essentially be a non-issue at the beginning level. T&Ters don't compete a salto in their compulsory routines into level 6, up until that point working on good, powerful, ROs and bhs is most important- so they have the power to do ro-bhsx5-into a tuck.
When I was teaching tumblers I spent LOTS of time on RO and bhs drills.

 

[twinklytoes9468]

I would like to slightly hijack your thread Geoffrey Taucer, to ask a question about the length of backhandsprings.I have aways thought that a BHS should be about a length of the gymnasts body.Recently I was watching my nephews tumbling class and their BHS were really short, and the coach was encouraging this? can anyone shed any light?

 

[twinklytoes9468]

...and if anyone can talk me through the mechanical issues relating to the length of BHS that would be very interesting