Parents Thinking of switching gyms - advice please :)

[3rd_time_around]

My then 7 year old had zero gymnastics/cheer/minimal dance and was picked up on team after 6 months in rec. I don't think it's that odd.

That's not odd, but a 6 year old entering at level 3 with not much experience is questionable unless they are phenomenal. I have a 6 yr old who's been in gym since 18 months, and she was invited to level 1, her 6 yr old pre-team friend went to level 2, but that young on 3 without competing 1 or 2 or just a super talent doesn't happen at our gym. The gym is extremely successful at every level, and I've had other daughters go through, up to Lvl 10, I've been around a long time. I can spot the talent almost as well as the coaches and owners, and have predicted new class-to-team kids with almost uncanny accuracy. I don't think it's odd at all, just the age and level with the minimal experience. That's why I questioned.

Some gyms put girls on higher levels who aren't ready for that level because they can perform a skill from that level even though all the other skills aren't there. I've heard of it and I've seen it.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Weird, the above post is acting like my post was the quote. That's my answer in there.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Just to clarify I was not saying every athlete in Xcel has bad form. I have been told however by plenty of people on this board and several club coaches that JO focuses more on form and Xcel more on skills. Xcel doesn't spend as much time making sure your toes are pointed just right and such. Again this is what I've been told repeatedly. However I am correct in that no college gymnast has ever gone through Xcel only and received a scholarship at least for Division 1 and to my knowledge 2.

As for whether or not it is important for my niece to be a college athlete, no it's not. However we don't want her coming to us at 12 and saying "You know I could have gone to Stanford if you'd put me in this gym instead of this one." So yes if you think that might be the path the child wants to walk, then every decision is important. I believe in preparing for multiple outcomes and the fun is seeing how it all plays out. But the preparation involves making the right choices be it school, gym, music teacher, swim coach or whatever because you can't undo it later.

The goal of Xcel is for the gymnast to perform what she can perform, not to build on skills and keep adding difficulty. We judge what they do and how they do it, that's all. (Please don't waste space arguing with me about this. I'm in the region that started Xcel and just sat through the Xcel updates clinic. They explained the philosophy and why it was started, and how they're trying to get it back to the way it was intended to be. I understand it much better now. Btw, there are changes and new level qualifications, so be prepared.)

 

[3rd_time_around]

Regarding Xcel it's a new path, the 2012 team started 8 yrs or so before that, there was no official Xcel. Many a strong gym use Xcel to by pass compulsories and the kids just enter JO at a higher level. Really, stop. Not all Xcel paths are equal. Do not assume Xcel is a fluff, non serious path. It is very much gym/area dependent.

Probably highjacking here, but every time I read this statement or hear someone say Xcel kids bypass optionals, I don't get it. Unless they are 14 and/or petition, Xcel is not a path to JO. I have heard this statement from the highest officials in the business, both Xcel and JO regulators. Every JO must score out of 4 & 5. It really isn't right to tell parents that this or that gym trains/competes Xcel then puts them in JO optionals, there's so much more to it. If gyms are doing that without proper score requirements at 4/5, then something is not right.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Probably highjacking here, but every time I read this statement or hear someone say Xcel kids bypass optionals, I don't get it. Unless they are 14 and/or petition, Xcel is not a path to JO. I have heard this statement from the highest officials in the business, both Xcel and JO regulators. Every JO must score out of 4 & 5. It really isn't right to tell parents that this or that gym trains/competes Xcel then puts them in JO optionals, there's so much more to it. If gyms are doing that without proper score requirements at 4/5, then something is not right.

This is true I always thought it just went without saying that you must score out of L4 and L5 to go from Xcel to optionals. At our gym they do this at an in house house score out meet. It is my understanding that if they don't score out they will have to stay Xcel for another year and then try again. But usually they start the score out meets early (girls can try to score out of L4 after bronze if they are ready and then L5 after silver If they are ready). That way if they're not ready of if they have a bad day they have an extra year in there to try again since our girls don't go to L6 until after gold (if they want to and are ready)
I was surprised to read on here that some gyms sneak them up to optionals without scoring them out. I don't think that would work in Region 8. However since in house score out meets are rarely made public it may appear to an onlooker that a gym is not scoring out their girls when they really are.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Probably highjacking here, but every time I read this statement or hear someone say Xcel kids bypass optionals

Just saw this and don't know how to edit, I meant compulsories, not optionals.

 

[twinmomma]

Probably highjacking here, but every time I read this statement or hear someone say Xcel kids bypass optionals, I don't get it. Unless they are 14 and/or petition, Xcel is not a path to JO. I have heard this statement from the highest officials in the business, both Xcel and JO regulators. Every JO must score out of 4 & 5. It really isn't right to tell parents that this or that gym trains/competes Xcel then puts them in JO optionals, there's so much more to it. If gyms are doing that without proper score requirements at 4/5, then something is not right.

Many gyms bypass compulsories with Xcel. They teach them the level 4 and 5 routines, score them out and then go to optionals. It's crappy, but it happens.

 

[twinmomma]

Probably highjacking here, but every time I read this statement or hear someone say Xcel kids bypass optionals, I don't get it. Unless they are 14 and/or petition, Xcel is not a path to JO. I have heard this statement from the highest officials in the business, both Xcel and JO regulators. Every JO must score out of 4 & 5. It really isn't right to tell parents that this or that gym trains/competes Xcel then puts them in JO optionals, there's so much more to it. If gyms are doing that without proper score requirements at 4/5, then something is not right.

Also, if those "highest officials" actually believe that then they would do something concrete about it. DD was in Xcel and it was CLEAR some of those teams were using Xcel as a compulsory bypass.

 

[gymdog]

Hmm I don't recall asking for your opinion about what I post. My comments were a point of view for the OP to consider. If you leave a top gym, you do run the risk of not being able to go back. And IF that is the only top gym in your area then yes you can alter her success. It's as simple as that. Now I'd kinkly ask you to refrain from addressing my comments any further because they weren't made for you. I'm not saying she can't go back to optionals at another gym, but coaches don't like quitters. I've spent enough time around multiple sports to know that. My comments were simply directed about being able to return to her big time gym that she left should she choose to change her course in the future.

When you post on an open forum, you can't dictate what others will post. You are providing one viewpoint as an aunt of a child who has participated in a few years of gymnastics. I am providing another viewpoint as a gymnastics professional.

You are posting things that are misleading (not intentionally, simply because you are making incorrect inferences from incomplete information you have gathered - i.e. someone who competes Xcel can't do TOPs). Let me make this simple for you: if a gym is trying to shuttle your kid into a one way never look back elite program at 5/6 level 3, then she isn't going to the Olympics. She might have the talent to, but she won't, because no gym that's gonna get a kid there is going to do that. The most successful gyms in this country deal in facts - what does your child have now, what can she learn now, what programs can she participate in. This is a fickle sport and dealing in anything other than facts is silly. Of course there is a certain caliber of training needed to reach the top levels, but you are acting like you have to start this at exactly 5 and 8 months or something and that just isn't true.

If you only take children at a certain time, then you would miss potential Olympians - I gave you an example, Gabby Douglas for one who competed today's level 3 at age 8. And then became the Olympic All Around champion. Let me give you another example - Simone Biles didn't do preschool gymnastics. At 6 or 7, she went to Bannons on a field trip with her summer day care. The coaches there sent a note home to her parents that this kid had to do gymnastics and they brought her back of course. Within months at 7 years old she had surpassed any other child who had been doing gymnastics since Mommy and Me. I mean this kid was literally doing back tucks on a beam after SEEING others do them. Nobody knows why or how Simone can do gymnastics the way she does - it's amazing and she is one of the best gymnasts male or female of all time. She just gets it. Now you can see that it would be truly absurd for Excalibur to have looked at Gabby Douglas and said that they wouldn't take her since she was in a cheer program, or for Bannons to have looked at Simone Biles and said nah, not worth it, after all her parents didn't even bring her in. The coaches at these gyms are not driven by what the parents want or don't want, if they see talent they're going to try to get that child. So if in two years OP's kid is just blowing away the competition and wants to move on, she'll do fine. If the gym won't take her, then they weren't gonna get her to elite anyway. So I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[twinmomma]

Hmm I don't recall asking for your opinion about what I post. My comments were a point of view for the OP to consider. If you leave a top gym, you do run the risk of not being able to go back. And IF that is the only top gym in your area then yes you can alter her success. It's as simple as that. Now I'd kinkly ask you to refrain from addressing my comments any further because they weren't made for you. I'm not saying she can't go back to optionals at another gym, but coaches don't like quitters. I've spent enough time around multiple sports to know that. My comments were simply directed about being able to return to her big time gym that she left should she choose to change her course in the future.

You do know that gyms are businesses correct? Absent some sort of toxic influence either on the part of the kid or the parents, a talented kid who left and realized that the gym they left is where they want to be would not be turned away. Everyone knows everyone in this small gymnastics community and it's common for kids to switch and switch back and 99% of the time it's no big deal. Even coaches and owners realize a kid may not know at 6 what they want and if at 8 they've changed their mind and are still solid in their skills, it's not in their best interest as a business or as a member of the gymnastics community locally to turn him or her away.

It seems like you like to come here, make big statements, then get mad when people point to flaws in your arguments. That isn't really the spirit of things here. We all might have different opinions, but we tend to allow others opinions to exist without taking them as attacks. I've spent a lot of time around multiple sports as well, and gymnastics is it's own animal. A few months/years with a young child in this sport does not give you the full picture of how things work.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Also, if those "highest officials" actually believe that then they would do something concrete about it. DD was in Xcel and it was CLEAR some of those teams were using Xcel as a compulsory bypass.

Curious why you quoted that. I'm not blowing smoke, I'm serious. The highest officials of the Xcel program (because the regulating office for Xcel is not USAG). Don't worry, they have made new level requirements for Xcel and there is no bypassing them. All the updates will go into effect in August.

Score outs at the gym are perfectly fine, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the people who insist their gym puts them right from Xcel into JO optionals.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Curious why you quoted that. I'm not blowing smoke, I'm serious. The highest officials of the Xcel program (because the regulating office for Xcel is not USAG). Don't worry, they have made new level requirements for Xcel and there is no bypassing them. All the updates will go into effect in August.

Score outs at the gym are perfectly fine, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the people who insist their gym puts them right from Xcel into JO optionals.

USAG doesn't run and regulate Xcel? I was under the impression it is definitively a USAG program.

 

[twinmomma]

Curious why you quoted that. I'm not blowing smoke, I'm serious. The highest officials of the Xcel program (because the regulating office for Xcel is not USAG). Don't worry, they have made new level requirements for Xcel and there is no bypassing them. All the updates will go into effect in August.

Score outs at the gym are perfectly fine, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the people who insist their gym puts them right from Xcel into JO optionals.

Xcel is absolutely a USAG program. Can you cite your level requirements updates?

 

[twinmomma]

For the record: https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Committee Minutes/NXC/nxc_051016.pdf

 

[LindyHopper]

Score outs at the gym are perfectly fine, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the people who insist their gym puts them right from Xcel into JO optionals.

Do you think that some of this insistence is from parents who know very little about the sport? That there is an in-house score out meet, but the parents don't realize that their girls have been taught the compulsory routines specifically for it, and that they'll never be done again. Parents who are ignorant of the process might honestly think their girls bypassed 4&5, when in reality, the parents never understood their girls learned and competed the compulsory routines.

 

[duyetanh]

You do know that gyms are businesses correct? Absent some sort of toxic influence either on the part of the kid or the parents, a talented kid who left and realized that the gym they left is where they want to be would not be turned away. Everyone knows everyone in this small gymnastics community and it's common for kids to switch and switch back and 99% of the time it's no big deal. Even coaches and owners realize a kid may not know at 6 what they want and if at 8 they've changed their mind and are still solid in their skills, it's not in their best interest as a business or as a member of the gymnastics community locally to turn him or her away.

It seems like you like to come here, make big statements, then get mad when people point to flaws in your arguments. That isn't really the spirit of things here. We all might have different opinions, but we tend to allow others opinions to exist without taking them as attacks. I've spent a lot of time around multiple sports as well, and gymnastics is it's own animal. A few months/years with a young child in this sport does not give you the full picture of how things work.

 

[gymgal]

Xcel is absolutely a USAG program. Can you cite your level requirements updates?

Region 8 congress was this past weekend. I am guess that's where GAgymmom got additional info. I am not sure what she means that Xcel is run by a different regulating office than USAG. Guessing the fact that they have a different committee/board to discuss rules, etc but yes, XCEL is still regulated and implemented through USAG.

 

[gymbeam]

Do you think that some of this insistence is from parents who know very little about the sport? That there is an in-house score out meet, but the parents don't realize that their girls have been taught the compulsory routines specifically for it, and that they'll never be done again. Parents who are ignorant of the process might honestly think their girls bypassed 4&5, when in reality, the parents never understood their girls learned and competed the compulsory routines.

actually, i think when people refer to it as "bypassing" compulsories, they do mostly understand the requirement to score out. the big difference i've observed though, is that learning the routines well enough to simply score out in a mobility meet does not require anything near the proficiency it would require to successfully compete a whole season of level 4 or 5 meets. so, in that regard, they do indeed get to "bypass" a lot of the compulsory experience.

 

[raenndrops]

I think it depends on your aspirations in the sport. If you have a little one who wants to shoot for the moon (i.e. the Olympics) then yes walking away from a gym with an elite path can break her chances, especially if it is the only such gym in the area. All 5 members of the 2012 team went through TOPS which to my knowledge is not available to Xcel athletes. What incentive does that gym have to take back a kid who already quit on them once when they have 12 kids lined up who haven't quit before? Now if OP were I'm Dallas or Orange County or another gymnastics hot bed (and there are very few) then she might have a chance to go back later to another elite gym. This is why I say a choice at 6 COULD derail her. On the flipside had OP started at the Xcel gym and tried to move later, that might be more feasible. It's a lot harder to go back because you're basically begging for a second chance which is not always granted.

Now obviously if her DD just wants to have fun and do her best without doing anything with it after high school then no it won't make or break her to move backwards. It all depends completely on the family and the child's goals.

Some people seem to take everything I say here so personally and you should not. Everything is situatuibal and unless you're the OP whose thread I'm responding to then nothing is about you. In the long run I could be right or you could. But if I'm the in demand elite gym owner, I'm not too likely to offer a second chance to a girl who quit on me once when I can give the same spot to someone who's never quit on me. That's the bottom line. It's honestly neither here nor there because OP made her decision and did quit the elite gym. She may or may not try to go back one day but if she does she should not be surprised if she's told no. So unless she has a back up then yes indeed the decision she made now could affect her daughter's future. Sorry that the truth hurts.

I do know where you are coming from… you are going based off of what you have been told by people with limited knowledge of Xcel (many coaches even have limited knowledge of the program other than how their gym treats it… if they even offer it). The National Committee is working on a program to educate coaches and judges.
As to your post:
1. Technically, TOPS is a training program that is outside of JO and Xcel… so a gym COULD do Xcel and TOPS.
2. If the girl changes her mind later and has what they expect from a JO Optional gymnast, the incentive to take her back is greater than the incentive to be snotty about it. The Original Gym treats their Xcel Program as a rec team… the other gym treats it as a COMPETITIVE team. She is not "quitting on them… she is making a move to something that works better for the whole family.
3 (from something you posted earlier) - You are probably right that a D1 or D2 college won't look someone who has ONLY competed Xcel. HOWEVER, the Nationalized Xcel program is still fairly new. It was nationalized for the 2013-14 season, so it has only been around for 3 years as a NATIONAL program under the auspices of the USAG. There hasn't been enough time for the Xcel program to produce athletes at that level yet. This is just a start. AND, with some gyms using Xcel in place of compulsories, we could end up with girls on college teams that did go thru the Xcel program at some point. It is also possible that there is a current collegiate gymnast that competed a season of Prep-Op in between Compulsories and Optionals.

 

[gymgal]

Score outs at the gym are perfectly fine, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the people who insist their gym puts them right from Xcel into JO optionals.

actually, i think when people refer to it as "bypassing" compulsories, they do mostly understand the requirement to score out. the big difference i've observed though, is that learning the routines well enough to simply score out in a mobility meet does not require anything near the proficiency it would require to successfully compete a whole season of level 4 or 5 meets. so, in that regard, they do indeed get to "bypass" a lot of the compulsory experience.

I agree with gymbeam that most parents understand that the gymnasts have to get the qualifying score for both levels, but they do tend to use "bypassed" or "skipped" or "did xcel instead of compulsory"instead of specifying "scored out". I have used all three in the past, knowing that most people know what I mean at this point. My dd learned the routines just well enough to get a qualifying score. She had all her skills. It was the finer points of the actual routines for floor and beam that she didn't spend too much time worrying about.