TOPs B camp moved discussion from TOPs camp thread

[gymnut1]

Just to clear up something mentioned earlier - the A camp is definitely a competition not just a camp. Medals are awarded to the girls in each age group for their results of testing at the beginning of the camp. The same is true at development camps. Not sure about the B camp though as I haven't seen any pictures of them being presented at those.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I don't think anyone should be lied to.

I just think some people are happy with a "Your kid came really close", or "Guess what..... your kid made B team after all". I imagine that happens and that for some people that enough information.

YES YES YES!!!! Who cares how close the girls came to the cutoff???? I think this all goes back to the ubercompetitiveness of PARENTS. Who owns the biggest bragging rights? I say, "who cares?" This is SUPPOSED to be all about the kids, right?

 

[thnkGd4kds]

But back to the topic of the thread, Gary said during our meeting that they started B camp because the parents of the girls who didn't make the cut for A camp kept "asking" (I interpret that to mean kept bothering based on how he presented that fact) for something for their girls. He even mentioned that some of the staff from A camp would be different from B camp. He didn't really specify how many or which staff but my wife and I had to question whether or not we would send our daughter to camp based on what Gary had said.

That's interesting that he said this and sounded this way. In the 2 parents' meetings we've been to down there, he has said that the staff would be the same, and, in fact, the camp would be, too, and that was our DD's experience. (Our coaches were there for A camp both years, too.) As far as him wanting or not wanting to do a B camp initially, I'm obviously not sure, but it was started in response to parents desiring a similar experience for their children, not necessarily to check the girls out again (although, as I stated in my earlier post, they do.) He appears nothing but positive about it in the meetings we went to, and my DD certainly enjoyed him at camp; she said he was funny and enthusiastic.

 

[PureTalent]

Well guys, I guess it boils down to everyone is just plain different. Some want to hear the truth...the whole truth (and nothing but the truth...lol, sorry just had to!) and for others it does't phase them. It's not a matter of wrong or right. Just a matter of what the parents want to know.

I'm glad we can all have this discussion now, in a very adult-like manner with no name calling and down talk. It's nice to be able to have differing opinions yet to come to a place and put it on the table and discuss it. It's all good! I love you all and still love to hear everyone's different views/opinions/thoughts, etc.

Just to clear up something mentioned earlier - the A camp is definitely a competition not just a camp. Medals are awarded to the girls in each age group for their results of testing at the beginning of the camp. The same is true at development camps. Not sure about the B camp though as I haven't seen any pictures of them being presented at those.

I can tell you this doesn't hold true for B camp. Last year mine was a B and didn't remember her telling me about them having medals, etc.

 

[k-dog]

I would be extremely proud of any child that makes it. Why make them feel less worthy by insisting that they be singled out and labeled "alternatives"? Every child that tested worked very hard just to have the opportunity to test. I am sure that many girls did not make the team due to an "off" day, that having the oppurtunity to repeat the test would probably make the cut off - and have a higher score than some of the "A" team girls (we all know how meets go - no one is 100% consistent day in and day out) Who cares how the girls get there ( as an alternative or not) They are every bit a part of that team and deserve to enjoy the opportunity just as much as any of the girls there.

 

[hppy4u2]

Regarding B camp, there is no testing involved whereas the A campers are tested on the abilities portion when they arrive. Gary made no mention of testing the B campers other than he felt the staff needed a rest after A camp's session therefore he wasn't going to test the B campers.

Not sure why but I have a few theories

 

[txgymfan]

What are your theories?

 

[ann1245]

If there are declines to go to camp, does anyone know if they go down the list to fill the spots for B camp? I know at the parents' meeting at the ranch, Gary Warren said he'll need 70 in the B team to cover all expenses (i.e., fees of national coaches, travel, room and board, etc.)

FYI: 9 yo B team cutoff was 80 and 10yo B Team cutoff was 81.

Have they started calling girls up for B camp? I would proudly send my daughter who had an of day at her ability test!

 

[mamaoftwo]

Ok, I admit I did not read this whole thread, you'd think they'd be setting their numbers (both the cut-off and # of invitees) with the knowledge that some won't come. It HAS to be accounted for in the original round of invites. Like when you plan a wedding. You know they won't all come, but only invite the maximum amount you can handle just in case, somehow, they all DO show up.

The coaches and kids will still have an amazing experience, no matter what their score was. I am sure they'd learn a lot, and maybe even more, than a "higher-scoring kid".

FWIW, I'd also send my DD. She'd be excited, and I believe she would have earned it. Granted, our gym does not do tops, so I am speaking hypothetically.

 

[bogwoppit]

Have they started calling girls up for B camp? I would proudly send my daughter who had an of day at her ability test!

We would be proud with you too!

 

[Empowered]

I just wanted to make a quit point in this thread about alternates.

1. The current world champion for the women's floor exercise (Afanaseva) was an alternate who didn't qualify to event finals.

2. The 1992 Women's Olympic AA Champion (Tatiana Gutsu) was an alternate who did not qualify to the AA finals.

3. In 2008 NHL playoffs the Detroit Red Wings starting goalie Dominick Hasek (widely regarded as one of the greatest goalies ever) gave up 15 goals in the first four games. The back-up, Chris Osgood, stepped in for Hasek and played the rest of the games in the playoffs securing the Stanley Cup for Detroit.

I think that's three pretty good examples of alternates who grabbed the bull by the horns and kicked some butt. There is NO shame in being an alternate and if one is given an opportunity to shine, they should feel as proud as anyone.

 

[ZZMom]

Thanks Sharks,

I'm definitely a fan of the underdog in sports. There are so many examples (they make the best sports movies ). My personal favorite is from Jeff Hornecek. Jeff was a walk on player in college. Not good enough to get a scholarship. He kept working though and ended up with a 14 year career in the NBA. He was an amazing shooting guard and has gone on to have a coaching career post retirement.

This is the type of lesson I am always hoping my kids take from sports. If my daughter (not in TOPS so hypothetically) was an alternate to the B team who was invited because someone dropped out, I'd be thrilled to send her. I don't think knowing she was an alternate would affect this at all. If she knew she was an alternate, I'd just tell her to go knock their socks off.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

 

[sportyspice]

Chosen One, alternate, whatever! Every child who goes to TOPS camp deserves to know that they are just as worthy regardless of how they got there. Amazing what happens when a bit of positive encouragement is directed to a child.

 

[flippin out]

my dd's gym doesn't do Tops. BUT - I thought that all Coaches and Parents know what their kid's scores are (that it's no secret at all) and that there is also no secret about what the cut off scores are. It seems to me that there are always threads on here discussing the cut offs....so it CAN'T be a secret.

So I guess my point is - All parents know what the cut off is. There is no secret. If an Alternate is asked in to the B camp (and btw- don't the A camp have Alternates as well?) then the Parents already know that their kid is being asked in as an Alternate. If a parent doesn't know....then they purposely don't want to know - and that's their choice, nothing wrong with that.

Why this whole drama about 'Making Sure that a Parent KNOWS ? They should already know, and to 'make sure they know' sounds more like someone trying to, not so much 'make sure that they are being told the truth', so much as 'making sure they are put in their place...not good enough to be there originally'. I don't get that attitude at all!

Maybe some of you that have acutally gone to camp or testing will disagree. Did you all know what your dd's scores were when testing? If not, how do all these threads keep popping up about 'My dd's Tops scores' and the videos to go along with them?

 

[bookworm]

my dd's gym doesn't do Tops. BUT - I thought that all Coaches and Parents know what their kid's scores are (that it's no secret at all) and that there is also no secret about what the cut off scores are. It seems to me that there are always threads on here discussing the cut offs....so it CAN'T be a secret.

Why this whole drama about 'Making Sure that a Parent KNOWS ? They should already know, and to 'make sure they know' sounds more like someone trying to, not so much 'make sure that they are being told the truth', so much as 'making sure they are put in their place...not good enough to be there originally'. I don't get that attitude at all!

Maybe some of you that have acutally gone to camp or testing will disagree. Did you all know what your dd's scores were when testing? If not, how do all these threads keep popping up about 'My dd's Tops scores' and the videos to go along with them?

This was totally the vibe I got off the original post ...to make sure "alternates" knew their place and like you, I didn't get the point of it other than one-upping someone...

And as far as scores, yes, we knew the scores (after the team was announced) but I never took any videos because we were never allowed into watch any of the TOPS testings...they said it was "policy" and i never questioned it and never watched (or videoed) ...so those with videos evidently don't have this same policy in their region..

 

[gymnut1]

So I guess my point is - All parents know what the cut off is. There is no secret. If an Alternate is asked in to the B camp (and btw- don't the A camp have Alternates as well?) then the Parents already know that their kid is being asked in as an Alternate. If a parent doesn't know....then they purposely don't want to know - and that's their choice, nothing wrong with that.

QUOTE]

As far as I am aware the A team is set at the outset and any declines for injury or whatever reason are not replaced. If you know different I apologise!

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

I don't know what my daughter's score was. She made B team and was told by her coach that she missed A team by less than 1/2 a point. I have no idea what the cutoff was for A team. At the camp, my daughter only knew what she scored on a few of the events - so can't even calculate an approximate score. We did get some video because my daugther's teammate used my daughter's iPod to tape her beam skills and dance. While I would like to know my daughter's score, I don't think it is important to know who made it as an alternate. If your daughter gets invited and can afford to go, you should let your daughter enjoy the experience and be proud that she was invited.

 

[flippin out]

As far as I am aware the A team is set at the outset and any declines for injury or whatever reason are not replaced. If you know different I apologise!

No, I don't know any different....I was guessing/questioning if worked the same way with Alternates. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

This was totally the vibe I got off the original post ...to make sure "alternates" knew their place and like you, I didn't get the point of it other than one-upping someone...

I got the same vibe...and it's not a nice one!!!

 

[PureTalent]

176985As far as I am aware the A team is set at the outset and any declines for injury or whatever reason are not replaced. If you know different I apologise[/B]!

I, too, am aware of the same as you are. That the A team does not have replacement/alternates.

Also, in response to a post about gyms telling parents the scores, etc......a gym or two I know of I heard by parents that they never gave out their kids TOPS scores...? And also that one same gym is the one who also never told the parent her child was an alternate. The B kids were announced at the gym, and then suddenly her DD was made mention of it a week or two later that "she also made the B team". Which is fine and dandy but they kept it from her that her child was an alternate and acted like she made B team. So all this time her name wasn't mentioned and hought she didn't make it to camp. All the camp B qualifier names were posted in gym. Not her name. And so mother couldn't understand why her kid's name wasn't announced when the others were. I guess in hindsite it was cuz they got some declines then that's when they told her that she made it. Just tell her she's an alternate...tell the truth like what's the big deal, ya know? Like why the gym try to act like she made B when everyone was mentioned and her poor DD was mentioned as an after-thought a couple wks. later. My point i'm trying to make is the honesty of the gym, that's all. If your kid is an alternate...that's wonderful. Tell them that. Instead of lying about it when people knew what was up when the child "suddenly made B camp" 2 wks. after everyone else. That's all. Gyms should all give out the kids TOPS scores, that's all. So if you see your kid just missed it by a hair, well then you know to be on your toes that the wonderful possibility of an invite can come up should there be a decline, etc. Our gyms give out their scores, btw.