"Toughest" Region?

[Jennemmy]

I was looking at comp routines on YouTube. Many times commentors will find extra deductions and mention their region has tougher judging. Of course, each commentor thinks their region is harder. : ) Since the judging is a national standard I was wondering if there is any truth to their pov. I can see how really big states might get tougher the closer you get to states but I imagine things equalize a little bit at regional level. Whadduthink?

 

[mariposa]

I always feel our judging here is tougher than some places. I have been told by a friend who is a coach that our state judges tend to want MORE than the minimum and score accordingly. So a routine that meets the minimum and should get a good score, will score less than girls doing MORE (think full split jump when only 90 degrees required, etc.) She says that her girls always score higher at out of state meets. Not sure if it is true, but who knows. I do know that even my then 7 year old would see routines and scores when watching videos on YouTube and be shocked they got a 9 and say she wished she could compete there. We are in Region 1.

 

[gymdog]

I would say we're about midway. Tougher regions...I'd say R5 for sure, also R1. My region definitely doesn't have the same...quality control as these two regions - it shows in the regionals competitions at JO Nats. R3 has great gyms and great quality gymnastics but the scores on average seem high to me for the routines (good routines). But they also are participation heavy which I think tends to push up the scores at the meets as judges try to differentiate between routines with better amplitude.

But I'm not in the weakest region. We do fare okay and will have isolated success in some age groups at JO nats and easterns, but nothing like the domination from R1, R5, and R3.

Edit: but state plays a big role here too. One of the states in my region (not my state) is probably one of the toughest states in the country as far as judging standards - where our very connected RTC lives. Compared to the scoring there, my state (and these are border states) probably has the same routines scoring as much higher as half a point. The rest of the states in our region are pretty similar though, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bribri514]

I would say we're about midway. Tougher regions...I'd say R5 for sure, also R1. My region definitely doesn't have the same...quality control as these two regions - it shows in the regionals competitions at JO Nats. R3 has great gyms and great quality gymnastics but the scores on average seem high to me for the routines (good routines). But they also are participation heavy which I think tends to push up the scores at the meets as judges try to differentiate between routines with better amplitude.

But I'm not in the weakest region. We do fare okay and will have isolated success in some age groups at JO nats and easterns, but nothing like the domination from R1, R5, and R3.

Edit: but state plays a big role here too. One of the states in my region (not my state) is probably one of the toughest states in the country as far as judging standards - where our very connected RTC lives. Compared to the scoring there, my state (and these are border states) probably has the same routines scoring as much higher as half a point. The rest of the states in our region are pretty similar though, as far as I'm concerned.

I'd say we are in the same state until you said Easterns. Our region is very very hard, but the states that are included aren't balanced at all. It's not fair to compare Wyoming and Texas. I always remember regionals being waaaaaaayyy harder than state, (like more than it should be).

 

[emacmommy]

You said it BriBri about comparing Wyoming to Texas. Population alone for both gymnast participation and the judges pool is so not in line with the rest of the states in our region. I am in Wyoming. Many of our judges are affiliated, as coaches, parents or past athletes of gyms. The lack of consistency and sticking "to the book" has been horrible, although they are making a concerted effort this year to accomodate, but it is much more expensive to bring in a judge that is 3 hrs away then your own coach/judge. I think we are the only gym in the state that does not have a coach in the judging pool. Unfortunately it's just something we have to live with as there just isn't a large enough population here.

Just last week I was having a discussion with our gym business director that the lack of consistency with our judges could even be partly to blame with this attitude in our gym that I'm a great L4 (or L5 whatever), I should now be allowed to move up. I know, from my own past experiences in other states, that really they aren't all that, and will benefit by repeating a level, but they only know that they are top on the podium here in Wyoming, so they should move.

It poses a huge issue with travelling out of state. Year after year we try and garner the support of our parents to venture out of our huge but small state. Many won't because our event scores swing 0.5 - 1.0 lower which really confounds the parents and athletes. They leave feeling so frustrated. I did come from a highly competitive state, Ohio, before moving to Wyoming, where I love to raise my family, but gymnastically we don't match up to the rest of the nation. We are starting to fare well in South Dakota but doing well in Colorado has eluded us. I know our gymmies will gain so much by seeing what the rest of the nation is doing but the parents are now gunshy.

As for the toughest Region... Region 5 is my knee jerk answer. Hey Gymdog, you Region 2? I grew up R2, Washington.

edit: I do have a have a scenario in our judges defense. A judge is human and has the same learning curve as any human. When you only see the same pool of girls all season long, you don't see the diversity of quality the rest of nation has. Their eye is only as trained as the girls they see, besides training videos which they see what... twice a year. Again, smaller population really skews the quality of gymnastics here.

 

[bribri514]

You said it BriBri about comparing Wyoming to Texas. Population alone for both gymnast participation and the judges pool is so not in line with the rest of the states in our region. I am in Wyoming. Many of our judges are affiliated, as coaches, parents or past athletes of gyms. The lack of consistency and sticking "to the book" has been horrible, although they are making a concerted effort this year to accomodate, but it is much more expensive to bring in a judge that is 3 hrs away then your own coach/judge. I think we are the only gym in the state that does not have a coach in the judging pool. Unfortunately it's just something we have to live with as there just isn't a large enough population here.

Just last week I was having a discussion with our gym business director that the lack of consistency with our judges could even be partly to blame with this attitude in our gym that I'm a great L4 (or L5 whatever), I should now be allowed to move up. I know, from my own past experiences in other states, that really they aren't all that, and will benefit by repeating a level, but they only know that they are top on the podium here in Wyoming, so they should move.

It poses a huge issue with travelling out of state. Year after year we try and garner the support of our parents to venture out of our huge but small state. Many won't because our event scores swing 0.5 - 1.0 lower which really confounds the parents and athletes. They leave feeling so frustrated. I did come from a highly competitive state, Ohio, before moving to Wyoming, where I love to raise my family, but gymnastically we don't match up to the rest of the nation. We are starting to fare well in South Dakota but doing well in Colorado has eluded us. I know our gymmies will gain so much by seeing what the rest of the nation is doing but the parents are now gunshy.

As for the toughest Region... Region 5 is my knee jerk answer. Hey Gymdog, you Region 2? I grew up R2, Washington.

edit: I do have a have a scenario in our judges defense. A judge is human and has the same learning curve as any human. When you only see the same pool of girls all season long, you don't see the diversity of quality the rest of nation has. Their eye is only as trained as the girls they see, besides training videos which they see what... twice a year. Again, smaller population really skews the quality of gymnastics here.

Eek yeah, I'm lucky, I was in Colorado. We were kind of middle of the road, below OK, TX, etc. but above NM and WY. In CO there's a lot of uneveness even at the state level too. I'm from a rural county in western CO that doesn't even have a gym! I had to go to the county over to train (and you know how big the counties are out here). Our gym could never compete with the big ones on the Front Range (Denver, CO Springs area). I had a chance to move to the Springs to train but my mom was very against it. When I go home winter break I'm going to start volunteer coaching at my old gym. Maybe there's a chance of a meet that includes western CO and WY? That way girls can have a chance to compete against other girls than normal but not have to face the giant city gyms? I'll PM you

 

[gymdog]

As for the toughest Region... Region 5 is my knee jerk answer. Hey Gymdog, you Region 2? I grew up R2, Washington.

Nope, clear on the other side of the country, in 7. Not too weak, but having competed in R5 several times, there's definitely a difference. However it would be comparable to our toughest state which is MD.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

GymDog... I thought you were going to say that the toughest state was PA!! (We've never been to a meet there tho.... will be going in Feb.).

 

[ThreeGirlsForMe]

Do you know where the regions are defined? This is an interesting discussion, but I don't know what states are in what region.

Thanks!
Dawn

 

[Jennemmy]

Region 1 - N. Ca, S. Ca, AZ, UT, NV
Region 2 - Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, OR, WA
Region 3 - Arkansas, CO, KS, NM, OK, TX, WY
Region 4 - MN, Wis, NE, IA, Missouri, ND, SD
Region 5 - Illinois, Indiana, KY, Michigan, OH
Region 6 - CT, Maine, Mass, NH, NY, RI, VT
Region 7 - Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, W.Virginia
Region 8 - Ala, Fla, GA, Mississippi, LA, NC, SC, TN

 

[Jennemmy]

Nope, clear on the other side of the country, in 7. Not too weak, but having competed in R5 several times, there's definitely a difference. However it would be comparable to our toughest state which is MD.

Another, good question. Which state is the toughest in each region?

 

[emacmommy]

I would say a good indicator of which states are stronger/weaker is by population density. If a state has two or three large metro areas they tend to develop a stronger sense of competitiveness/quality. Only one large metro and that metro area tends to be stronger, but the rest of the state is weaker by comparison. This isn't 100% accurate, but a decent generality.

 

[gymdog]

GymDog... I thought you were going to say that the toughest state was PA!! (We've never been to a meet there tho.... will be going in Feb.).

I've competed in PA lots of times...I'd say it's about the same as us. MD definitely the toughest, as I mentioned our Region Technical Coordinator is in MD.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

region 5 leads the pack consistently for the last 20 years at level 9 & 10, although region 3 beat our pants off this year at level 10 nationals.

illinois sends the most athletes on to nationals at both levels.

 

[bookworm]

region 5 leads the pack consistently for the last 20 years at level 9 & 10, although region 3 beat our pants off this year at level 10 nationals.

illinois sends the most athletes on to nationals at both levels.

Region 3 DID look good at Level 10 Nationals this year in every age group!!

 

[bribri514]

To state the obvious, Texas is the toughest in R 5. We also have some of the weakest state programs. I think USAG should rearrange the regions a bit IMO.

 

[bribri514]

I would say a good indicator of which states are stronger/weaker is by population density. If a state has two or three large metro areas they tend to develop a stronger sense of competitiveness/quality. Only one large metro and that metro area tends to be stronger, but the rest of the state is weaker by comparison. This isn't 100% accurate, but a decent generality.

I 100% agree.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

To state the obvious, Texas is the toughest in R 5. We also have some of the weakest state programs. I think USAG should rearrange the regions a bit IMO.

not sure if it's a typo, but texas is not in region 5.

 

[bribri514]

not sure if it's a typo, but texas is not in region 5.

Oops yep! I meant R 3, I'm trying CB on my phone, not working well.

 

[MdGymMom01]

I've competed in PA lots of times...I'd say it's about the same as us. MD definitely the toughest, as I mentioned our Region Technical Coordinator is in MD.

And this is why we probably have the Mason Dixon League here in Md, in which my dd competes in. It is great that we have this alternative option and the MDL is growing by leaps and bounds and just went through an overhaul with the rules. I am very grateful for this league because if it was not offered, I seriously doubt my dd would be doing gymnastics.