Tsuk Vaults?

[GetaGrip]

I was wondering how to successfully through a tsuk vault. I've practiced many times doing a 1/4 or 1/2 on then pushing off onto a mat, but I've never tried to flip on the real vault. At my old gym I used to do a lot of tsuks into the pit, but I'd always end up on my knees (this was in level 5) What do I need to do?

 

[grizzoline]

Well, if you've done them into the pit, shouldnt you already know what to do?

basically, the entry should be quick and low, but you need to drive your heels up. then block hard, really push through your shoulders. the post flight should feel like you're setting first, and then lift your knees up to your head into a tight tuck. what i did when i first tried them was I brought my chest down into the tuck position, which pretty much killed my rotation. basically, if you do that, they're kinda dangerous even into the pit.

do you not have a pit now or what the issue? do you wanna do it on the real vault right away?

 

[gymdog]

Your coaches probably plan to do more flipping drills once the entry is strong, but they may wait until after your L7 season. Flipping vaults onto a harder surface is a lot of stress on the joints and so usually trained only as necessary. Usually coaches introduce flipping from a floor RO type entry onto a wedge mat into a pit, rather than from the full vault entry.

 

[Optionals United]

i agree with grizzoline completly. i <3 your new signature!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lil_gymnast_alanna]

It sounds like you haven't got enough pop or rotation.
I agree with grizzoline, and I wan't to add to it.
Drills that I did were 1/4 or 1/2 tsuks up to mats stacked a bit higher than the actual vault. Once I had that pretty good we moved on to putting a small block about 30cm high just behind the vault on the mats and I had to go over that without hitting my chest on the block.
This was to help my pop of the vault because I had a big problem with blocking and lifting my chest for the rotation I needed.
After all that was good, I turned them into the pit and gradually built up the mats.
I hope that made sense!

 

[GetaGrip]

Okay, we have a pit at my new gym, but I don't get to vault on it a lot. Our gym in fact, only has a pit to vault into. We put mats in the pit to land on when we are ready. They are still a bit hard, but it works pretty well.

Grizzoline- True, I do know how a tsuk feels, but I've never gotten far enough to get all the way around and open up. I was only in level 5, so vault wasn't exactly what I was so great at in the first place. What I did though was I flipped with my head instead of rotating with my body.

gymdog- Considering that our vault goes into the pit, then I wouldn't have a lot of stress on my legs even if I did put mats in the pit.

optinals rock- Thanks! The new USAG rules don't seem very fair to level 8's to me....

lil gymnast alana- It made perfect sense! But my coach used to tell me that I had to flick my legs in a certain way after pushing off, or what? I don't remember...

 

[CoachTodd]

I'd have to see a video of your pit vault to see why it would be landing on your knees. Some possible reasons.
1. Entry too high
2. board too far away
3. tucking too soon
4. tucking the wrong direction (trying to do a back flip while tucking from the top down)
and so forth
One thing I also run into is that most folks try to open after 1 flip. If you do this, you are still upside down. You have to think of it as a double the work from there.

 

[BlairBob]

One of the basic drills is being able to tsuk timer onto a mat stack behind the vault. First to feet, then over rotating-scooping the feet under and doing it to back.

 

[GetaGrip]

I'd have to see a video of your pit vault to see why it would be landing on your knees. Some possible reasons.
1. Entry too high
2. board too far away
3. tucking too soon
4. tucking the wrong direction (trying to do a back flip while tucking from the top down)
and so forth
One thing I also run into is that most folks try to open after 1 flip. If you do this, you are still upside down. You have to think of it as a double the work from there.

Hmm.... Let's see what I do....

1. I actually am pretty paranoid about pushing off of the vault table towards the very end of the table.

2. If anything, the board was too close.

3. I believe that I tuck on vault as soon as I push off of the vault table.

4. I tend to whip my head back when I flip.

5. Actually, I never really open up at all... I guess that I just push my feet down when I flip.

-GCG

 

[CoachTodd]

Hmm.... Let's see what I do....

1. I actually am pretty paranoid about pushing off of the vault table towards the very end of the table.

2. If anything, the board was too close.

3. I believe that I tuck on vault as soon as I push off of the vault table.

4. I tend to whip my head back when I flip.

5. Actually, I never really open up at all... I guess that I just push my feet down when I flip.

-GCG

1. More drills onto a stack of mats until you are more comfortable.

2. I've seen grown men and very big girls vault with the board as close as 1 foot from the table so they get a quicker entry for a more powerful vault. If the table is about 1'6" away and you are an average height gymnast, you should be able to adjust your body angle on the board to get the turn over you need to pop more off the table. Once the board starts to get more that about 2 feet or so from the table (depending on the height of the gymnast) it starts to get more difficult to transition the speed of the run into the vault table to get the amplitude you want.

3. The only way I can think of to verbalize this is, act like you are taping a giant on bars before you try to flip. i.e you need to snap more toward the ceiling that the floor. Sorry I can't think of better wording. I'm used to having the gymnast in front of me and use a lot of visuals.


4. Stop it .

5. see 3 and 1

good luck

 

[Invisible Duck]

2. I've seen grown men and very big girls vault with the board as close as 1 foot from the table so they get a quicker entry for a more powerful vault. If the table is about 1'6" away and you are an average height gymnast, you should be able to adjust your body angle on the board to get the turn over you need to pop more off the table. Once the board starts to get more that about 2 feet or so from the table (depending on the height of the gymnast) it starts to get more difficult to transition the speed of the run into the vault table to get the amplitude you want.

wow.... i can't imagine trying to vault with the board that close! I have the board on 70cm (which I just worked out is about 2.3 feet 1, foot is only about 30cm!)
I have a fairly decent vault, but maybe I should try moving the board in even closer??

~sorry for the hijack!

 

[CoachTodd]

wow.... i can't imagine trying to vault with the board that close! I have the board on 70cm (which I just worked out is about 2.3 feet 1, foot is only about 30cm!)
I have a fairly decent vault, but maybe I should try moving the board in even closer??

~sorry for the hijack!

Depending on how tall you are the 2.3 feet may be OK but you'll find that you get more pop with it just a few inches closer. I know a gymnast on this forum that wants his vault named is about 5'6" and the board is about 2 feet from the table. He gets a lot of pop off the table. The one girl I have that has a very powerful front/front vault uses the board at about 1'6" and she's about 5'4". A lot of this will depend on the gymnast.

 

[GetaGrip]

I'm not very tall at all, only 4'9", and I guess that the board is between 1' and 1'6". My front handspring vault is pretty good when I get my steps right. I block high and don't die on my landing either. In the Tsukahara vault I push my hands off of the table like a cartwheel and can't get much pop. Also, I vault on 125 cm. so is the height of the table verses my height a problem as well?

 

[CoachTodd]

You are actually the same height as my daughter and she did a tsuk one click higher on the table so I think the table should be ok. You may want to see which setting gives you the best entry angle.
When you are doing you 1/2 or 1/4 on entry, try to think about getting your "bad" arm behind your head. i.e. I tumble right so I reach behind my head with my left arm on the 1/2 on. You'll want to work this a few times into a pit if possible as it seems to get you to the table faster thus getting you more pop.
Once you get used to this part, start thinking about getting your hips through as if you were tapping a giant (best visual I could think of). If you bend early, you kill your block.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

"verses" are what you recite or sing. versus is one opposed to another. just helping you out for that spelling test.

 

[GetaGrip]

The vault setting I'm on actually works perfectly. I've been practicing 1/4 or 1/2 ons for a bit now with out a flip. I tend to arch, so I do a quarter on. Should I try to do a half so I don't go crooked or arch on the way around?

I guess that one thing that makes no sense to me is the block on a tsukahara. On front handsprings as soon as my hands hit the table I can feel a nice hard, sharp block that is easily definable to me. But when I timer for a tsuk, all I feel is myself pushing off the table with bent arms. Also, it's much slower for me, and again I stick my head out. How do I get an actual block off of the table?