USAG Age Requirements

[MdGymMom01]

I apologize if you were offended Shawn, but you really should be careful how you word your feelings when you post. Maybe I was a little harsh, but I was very offended by your post especially that last part that I quoted. You could have simply said that you feel that your dd's training plan "is altered" now that the team switched, but to use the words "stuck at level 5" and "messing up the plans" is gonna spark some reaction.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Comments like this are why I didn't post the reasons for my question in the OP. Changing the entire team for one child has messed up the progression planned for my daughter. That's all. I am sure there are other girls who had the same hopes but as I don't know them, I couldn't be sure. As always, any "plan" for any child is dependent on a lot of factors. Changing the status of the entire team is not usually one of them.

I very rarely get offended but in this case, I am.

Shawn, were you offended because I mentioned that your dd still has room for improvement on Level 5? After reading my post, that is the only thing I can think of that may have offended you. With that said, I am sorry about that. What I meant to say was that every gymnast has room for improvement. And by you saying that the decision the owner made has totally messed up your dd's plans for progression at the age of 7 is absurd! As you will soon see, as many parents of gymnasts have seen, "plans" in gymnastics quickly get altered, shifted and stalled by many factors including injuries, child motivation, age, growth spurts, change in gyms and coaching staff along with dozens of other unforeseen factors. It is the adaptation and adjustment to these changes and challenges that make or break a gymnast & parent (IMHO).

 

[gymdog]

DD was supposed to use these spring meets for mobility and now she can't do that, which means she's stuck in L5 until next fall, messing up the plans her HC had for her progression.

(I'm not exactly sure how the seasons work, but this is a guess).

Mobility for 5 to 6 only requires a 31 AA USAG. From your dd's video, I expect it will only take her one meet to achieve this...fall seasons usually start in August so if she did one 5 meet then and then L6 (routines are pretty similar so that's not uncommon) she only needs a 31 AA to L7 (which I'm presuming is a spring season). We just have one season here though so I'm not all that familiar with the other system, but I would guess it would still be relatively easy to go ahead with any mobility plan.

It's important to speak with the coach if you have a question about the progression though.

 

[Billy]

(I'm not exactly sure how the seasons work, but this is a guess).

Mobility for 5 to 6 only requires a 31 AA USAG. From your dd's video, I expect it will only take her one meet to achieve this...fall seasons usually start in August so if she did one 5 meet then and then L6 (routines are pretty similar so that's not uncommon) she only needs a 31 AA to L7 (which I'm presuming is a spring season). We just have one season here though so I'm not all that familiar with the other system, but I would guess it would still be relatively easy to go ahead with any mobility plan.

It's important to speak with the coach if you have a question about the progression though.

You have hit the nail on the head with what I'm most concerned about. She was originally supposed to score out of level 5 this spring and then score out of level 6 next fall so she'd be level 7 by this time next year. How hard will it be to learn the level 6 routines and not get confused having just finished level 5 if she has to do it all next fall? That's what worries me about her scoring out of level 5 at a fall meet and then trying to go directly to scoring out of level 6. I'm afraid she'll confuse the two routines.

 

[Billy]

Shawn, were you offended because I mentioned that your dd still has room for improvement on Level 5? After reading my post, that is the only thing I can think of that may have offended you. With that said, I am sorry about that. What I meant to say was that every gymnast has room for improvement. And by you saying that the decision the owner made has totally messed up your dd's plans for progression at the age of 7 is absurd! As you will soon see, as many parents of gymnasts have seen, "plans" in gymnastics quickly get altered, shifted and stalled by many factors including injuries, child motivation, age, growth spurts, change in gyms and coaching staff along with dozens of other unforeseen factors. It is the adaptation and adjustment to these changes and challenges that make or break a gymnast & parent (IMHO).

Of course not. I'm sure Shawn and Nastia are making plans to get back to the gym to "improve" some things. What offended me was the comment about being "cocky." I have nothing to be cocky about. I don't do gymnastics and couldn't to save my life. But I do have a vested interest in what happens to my daughter, as well as the fact that I am paying for all of this. I did not want to have to pay for two level 5 seasons if we didn't have to (because of problems with her training or something) and now it looks like we'll have to pay for two seasons because one child wasn't old enough this season. It has nothing to do with being "cocky."

 

[MdGymMom01]

You have hit the nail on the head with what I'm most concerned about. She was originally supposed to score out of level 5 this spring and then score out of level 6 next fall so she'd be level 7 by this time next year. How hard will it be to learn the level 6 routines and not get confused having just finished level 5 if she has to do it all next fall? That's what worries me about her scoring out of level 5 at a fall meet and then trying to go directly to scoring out of level 6. I'm afraid she'll confuse the two routines.

Ok, so if I am hearing you correctly, you are concerned that by learning the different level skill sets back to back will be somewhat confusing for her all in one year. I can see where the stress or anxiety is coming from because of what the HC had planned for her which is "to score out of level 5 this spring and then score out of level 6 next fall so she'd be level 7 by this time next year." WOW--that's a lot of planning, pressure and some pretty high expectations for a 7 year old--even if she is highly talented.

Anyway, is there a reason why you want her to be a Level 7 by this time next year? I can understand why you may not want to pay for 2 seasons of Level 5 IF she is not learning anything new and she is so bored that her motivation is affected, but I guess I am a little confused on why you are stressing the importance of her following this "plan" like it will make or break her gymnastics career?? IDK--it just sounds like a lot of unnecessary stress to put on a little 7 year old.

 

[gymdog]

They're pretty similar, mostly just with different skills. The bar routine is different but I don't think it will be that hard to remember as long as she practices the L5 one the week before scoring out. Here we only have one season so that's what anyone who wants to score out does. Trying to do 4 to 5 would be worse, really different routines. If she managed to go from 2 to 5 in a relatively short period of time, I suspect she'll be fine remembering 5 to 6 when the time comes. It's only a 31 AA. If the skills are strong and she makes a few text errors it won't really matter. I would just take it as it comes. Things might change. I can remember the L5 and 6 routines to a passable level without having ever learned them, after a year of seeing them it's all burned in your brain. She might get a little confused and I wouldn't expect perfection, but if she gets a 9 on bars, she'll only need a 7 something on the rest of the events, if the gymnastics skills are fine and she does them all, it really should be fine.

I would just take it as it comes, I have seen people go through all sorts of different mobility rates and I feel like it's something you can't plan for really until you're there, which is kind of how you start thinking about it in optionals whereas in compulsories I feel like people tend to try to make plans that are too grand. Have the skills before the first meet? Compete that level. It's hard to make advance plans because sometimes there are big spurts and sometimes there are slow periods, injuries, setbacks. Eventually it'll all work out. If L5 is the correct level now, then I think it will be fine. She'll have the whole summer to work everything else out. I hesistate to say this because I don't know exactly how your gym works but you also have to know sometimes coaches say things as a possibility *if* things happen that way and don't mean them to be something that is set in stone. It's one of leading miscommunication things I've seen...they don't realize that all the variables swimming around in their head that make sense to them need to be clearly articulated or they should be more careful about how they frame things. But it is a common issue that people feel misled.

My advice is that nothing is set in stone in gymnastics until well, like the day before it happens. Maybe the *day* it happens. Things get forgotten, no one knows what they're doing, there's a million kids, there's injuries and fear blocks, etc. This is frustrating and really annoying, but a common way that things go. So if you are feeling confused about things changing, ask the coach and express (politely of course) your confusion. Say "I just want to touch base with you about this because I remember discussing the possibility that X might do L7 next year and my husband and I are pretty new to this and don't know how mobility through the levels works at this gym, since she is doing AAU 5 this year." It is okay to ask a question like this. What you don't want to do is...ask about another child or even bring up another child - pretty good way to make coaches annoyed, defensive, etc...imply they "promised" anything - most coaches don't think of anything as a promise, see big communication problem above...or ask the same question/make the same comments every day (and I have been involved in competitive gymnastics for too long now, yes some people do this. Same things all the time. Doesn't ever change anything, just annoys everyone). But you are new to this gym and it is reasonable to ask them about the possibilities that were previously discussed and how level mobility is handled in their gym.

 

[Billy]

Ok, so if I am hearing you correctly, you are concerned that by learning the different level skill sets back to back will be somewhat confusing for her all in one year. I can see where the stress or anxiety is coming from because of what the HC had planned for her which is "to score out of level 5 this spring and then score out of level 6 next fall so she'd be level 7 by this time next year." WOW--that's a lot of planning, pressure and some pretty high expectations for a 7 year old--even if she is highly talented.

Anyway, is there a reason why you want her to be a Level 7 by this time next year? I can understand why you may not want to pay for 2 seasons of Level 5 IF she is not learning anything new and she is so bored that her motivation is affected, but I guess I am a little confused on why you are stressing the importance of her following this "plan" like it will make or break her gymnastics career?? IDK--it just sounds like a lot of unnecessary stress to put on a little 7 year old.

Yes, you're right. You don't understand. The plan is written in pencil on toilet paper. I get that. What seems wrong to me is to change what they're doing with DD because one of her teammates is too young to compete. That's it. That's all.

 

[gymdog]

What seems wrong to me is to change what they're doing with DD because one of her teammates is too young to compete. That's it. That's all.

Honestly I would guess it is doubtful they think of it that way. My first inclination was to think any plan can still go ahead relatively easily (particularly with two seasons and 7 in the spring) and I would guess that's their first inclination too. Even if it required two meets, she could do two L5 and two L6. In the end this really won't matter. I promise. Either way it will really be a very similar outcome.

 

[flippersmom]

Maybe they feel that some of the girls are not ready and it is easier to state the age reason. Maybe if only 1 or 2 are ready, they are trying to save costs. It is expensive to send a coach to a meet for only 1-2 girls.

You may complain about "paying" for 2 seasons of level 5, but I don't get that. With Level 7 comes additional expenses such as choreography, music, higher meets, and often travel meets. If she is in it for the next 10 years, you are paying for 10 years regardless of the level. If they are training her to her potential, then it shouldn't matter.

Krista Jasper didn't even start gymnastics until she was ten and qualified to elite level in less than 4 years. She had a lot of routines to learn in a single year, but was mature enough to handle it. I believe she went from something like Level 5 to Level 8 in one year. As the next year she was a Level 9, and was scoring 36's-38's. I've seen many girls compete one level and the next meet (sometimes only 1-2 weeks later) compete a high level.

If HC was that concerned about the plan, wouldn't he have input with the owner?

 

[MdGymMom01]

I agree--over the span of the gymnast's career, the same amount of money will generally be spent depending on how long they are in the sport. And like you said Flipper, if HC was concerned about the plan and or Boo's career path, I would think that he would have some say in the decision. I also agree with what gymdog says in that sometimes coaches will "give you the speech" about plans for your daughter but they are simply hypathetical "what-if's" and "we'll see how she does" kind of responses. I'm sure the coach sees potential in Boo, it's just that the scenario that he "laid out" just isn't going to come to fruition in that EXACT way.

 

[bogwoppit]

I know my youngest did not go in our civile league this year due to complicated coaching issues. She is the only one her age group and skill level in the gym and the coach could just not find another coach to be at all 4 meets with her to compete. Sometimes these choices are made for many reasons.

It's fine with me, she'll enjoy her year and then go in civile next year. But then we do not have a plan for her, she just does gym and competes, no long term vision at all.

It is very hard as a coach to make everything work for every child and keep costs affordable, sometimes things change for the good, but sometimes not. It would have cost close to $1200 for one coach's fees/hotel/travel for my DD to do what she wanted, not fair on everyone else and I sure would not pay that myself. Plus I think competing as part of a team is more fun than being alone at her age.

Every gym is different.

 

[TeamDad]

Funny, you would think that it's the girls scoring 9+ in every event with 1st places and an AA of 36/37+ that would be scoring out and not the girls scoring 31AA. It's a mixed up backwards world we live in. I guess it all makes sense somehow to someone somewhere.

 

[gymdog]

Funny, you would think that it's the girls scoring 9+ in every event with 1st places and an AA of 36/37+ that would be scoring out and not the girls scoring 31AA. It's a mixed up backwards world we live in. I guess it all makes sense somehow to someone somewhere.

I'm not sure what you mean? A 31 AA is the minimum mobility score for compulsory levels per USAG regulations. There is no mandated mobility, i.e. it is up to a combination of the gymnast, parents, and coaches to determine mobility to the next competitive level provided the gymnast reached the minimum. Many gyms choose to follow one level a season (or two seasons, whatever the individual needs) even for relatively talented kids. My former HC has a good program going but at this point she doesn't really think much about skipping kids because the few times she's done it, it's more or less backfired and led to more stress for everyone. And inversely she's had a lot of successful gymnasts at top levels who didn't skip levels despite success in compulsory levels. So the structure of the training is more or less to do one level each year with some uptraining as appropriate with the kid's skill level on each event and a focus on basics. Because there are very specific requirements for the minimum optional skills competed in the optional levels (beyond USAG requirements), there is only so much uptraining though, because certain things have to be achieved before moving on to anything else and honestly the most talented kids tend to track about a level per year overall when all four events are considered.

Even with the solid basics by optionals almost everyone does two years of L8...if they don't they do two years of L9...so if a kid were super super talented and tracking more progress than usual as far as their training up and picking up optional skills, then they would just do one year of those and probably still be quite young reaching L10. I've known some pretty young L10s that could have pushed elite (and some who did) and did repeat a level or two somewhere along the way.

That doesn't mean it's never right to skip a level...personally I think it's more of an issue with an older compulsory trying to become successful at the highest levels, because sometimes you need to have those years at L8 and L9. At 7 in L5 even without skipping levels and doing one a year you'd be 10 in L8. There are a bunch of girls (who are now 12) that were 9 and 10 in my old training group and working L8 and they could have skipped a level or two along the way but I can't imagine what the point would be. It's plenty young to evaluate from there what you want...and as it happens none of them were serious enough at the time to really want to push for anything more, and still aren't.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Funny, you would think that it's the girls scoring 9+ in every event with 1st places and an AA of 36/37+ that would be scoring out and not the girls scoring 31AA. It's a mixed up backwards world we live in. I guess it all makes sense somehow to someone somewhere.

That's a very good point! I never thought of it that way!!! That is kinda backwards if you think about it!!

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

I would talk to the owner and the headcoach about the reasons why the plan is being changed maybe it is for other reasons I would hope they would not change things based on one girls age. I would also see how your daughter feels about it she maybe happy to stay with the group she is with and do really good in level 5 since she is so young. I think she is really talented and has alot of potential but I question how the HC could tell you she is going to move up the levels so fast so far in advance. At my daughters gym they move up based on the ability to get skills before the season starts and it is based on the individual child not on a 2 year plan. She is repeating level 4 and their are only 3 girls competeing at her level but they were not pushed to the next level based on how many girls are competing or their ages, they were placed in level 4 based on the HC opinion of where they should be. I quess I am having a hard time understanding how the gym could have this big plan for your daughter than change it based on one girls age. If you want to help your daughter advance faster is the TOPS program an option for her. I wish you luck your daughter did great on her level 5 meet ecspecailly her bars.

 

[Blackie6]

HC plans will change all the time....welcome to the wonderful world of gymnastics drama! This past year we lost several really GOOD girls because of changing "plans" and mobility. A decision was made to "hold" back our entire L5 team one more season (then move to L7) when clearly several were talented enough to move on up. They ended up leaving our gym (we see them at meets doing L6 and doing wonderful) a new mobility chart was produced for the parents who question mobility thru the levels, and the ones that really complained (but stayed) were allowed to train L7 (we don't do L6). The 2 training level 7 look sort of sloppy & awkward right now. Not sure they gaining anything by going right to L7 after one season of L5. By the time they compete next year they will be in the same spot as the ones that left to do L6, but not sure if they will look as polished.

Anyway, not posting this to be negative in anyway...just wanted to tell you that it seems in my limited 2 years of competative gynnastics the "plans" seem to change all the time for the girls. Sometimes your DD will get lumped into the majority rule. Gyms also want to be able to show on paper that they run a sucessful program. That is how they attract new gymnasts. Plus they may want the younger girls to gain "meet" experience. Not all may be as comfortable and trainable as your DD, but they may want to keep the similar aged girls together too.

Plans for my DD have changed too within our gym. They (l4's)were supposed to go from L4 right to L5 and compete, but now they are moving up and not competeing til next Dec/Jan. I am fine with this, as my DD does need the time to perfect skills & will benefit from a slower training. Plus she enjoys TOPS and may try out for that now in "off season" so we are in no rush.

Maybe you can arrange for a sit down with the HC? If plans had been discussed and now changed I don't see how it would hurt to double check the information. Maybe you can ask specifically what your DD needs to move up and why she is being lumped in with the rest of the group. Maybe they don't feel she is progressing as fast as they originally thought she would...or maybe they think she will be the star of L5 and gain some add'l confidence there before moving up? And, finally, are you sure they didn't "sell" you a plan when you first meet with the new gym to get you there? Think of the coach in "Stick it" telling all the mommies that their DD's are talented and have the potential to be going to the Olympics, LOL

I hope you get it all sorted out, whatever happens....just to add my 2 cents I think Boo did awesome in a short amount of time, but L5 is a level that they usually do compete a full year at around here. L6 is the one skipped the most. It can't hurt to wait it out a little and see how she does in say another few months. Maybe that is all the coaches need to see her be sucessful enough to move on up & out.

 

[gym law mom]

I'm rather confused why suddenly this plan is no longer acceptable to you. I read posts here from Oct and your blog entries and it seemed then that the "plan" was to do a few L5 AAU meets in Feb or so, if the opportunity came up to try and score out of L5, but the comment was if it didn't happen this spring all(HC and you) would be fine with dd doing a L5 meet in the fall and then moving on. So, what happened to change your mind that the plan had changed?

Seems with the age issue with 3 girls for Jan, then 1 for Feb. plus from your blog it sounds like the team as a whole wasn't ready to compete AA L5 right now it left the coaches with a few choices: 1) no meets til fall--just train L5 with some uptraining 2) take only those old enough/with all their routines to some meet somewhere in winter/spring 3) take all girls to AAU meets to get some competition experience and continue to train.

As another poster pointed out it is pricey to go to these big invitationals and many had registration deadlines of late Nov/early Dec. It also does nothing to build any kind of team unity. You're lucky. Many states don't do AAU, so there would be no option to do any meets until the next USAG season.

I know your dd trains with a small group and it seems she spends almost no time with the L5 team. Gymnastics is a team and individual sport. A big part of it is learning how to compete with others---encourage them, have them support you and take pride in how the team does. It can be very lonely for a child when they try and go it alone.

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

I agree with gym law mom. My daughter is 8 and one of the reasons she loves being on the team is her teammates have become her best friends. They encourage and support each other. One of the best things is that eventhough there are only 3 in her level they have placed score wise so close in the meets I think within a 1/10 0r 1/20th of a point within each other. They also practice with the level 5's who have moved up when they came to compete after the level 4 in our 1st meet a couple of them ran up to my daughter and her teammates on the awards floor were hugging them. I think this is important because when gymnastics and practice gets tough they really do keep each other going, so if your daughter does have to stay in level 5 longer she may able to bond more with the other girls on her team.

 

[TeamDad]