WAG USOC moves to revoke USAG...

[Flyaway]

well, well, well...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/sports/olympics/usa-gymanstics-documents.html

 

[profmom]

I couldn’t figure out how to link the entire article but here is s a screenshot

Consider the source. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the interview he gave was strategic rather than informational.

 

[coachmolly]

well, well, well...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/sports/olympics/usa-gymanstics-documents.html

I am so disgusted by this. I'm ashamed to be a member of this organization. I am disgusted by the people who continue to stand by USAG, including the people who stood by and said nothing as all of this was going down. I'm disheartened by the people who are more worried about the future of gymnastics than the well being of children involved in the sport and now adults who were harmed physically and emotionally during their time in the sport as children/young adults. The culture of abuse is so ingrained in this sport and I am more and more baffled each day by what is considered par for the course. The last few months have really pushed me over the edge from ardent supporter of the merits of gymnastics to outright cynic and I hate that.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

“Our investigators were told by everyone that Steve Penny was in possession of the documents, and Kerry Perry even testified to Congress that U.S.A. Gymnastics didn’t have the records,” Stephanie Stroud, the first assistant district attorney in Walker County, said. “So it’s kind of interesting that the documents just showed up.”


If those are the documents that Penny had removed from the ranch, I’m very surprised he didn’t destroy them. Is Kerry Perry involved in it too, or do you think she really didn’t know about them? And someone there either coincidentally stumbled upon them or someone knew all along they were there. Why come forward now?

 

[mom2557]

“Our investigators were told by everyone that Steve Penny was in possession of the documents, and Kerry Perry even testified to Congress that U.S.A. Gymnastics didn’t have the records,” Stephanie Stroud, the first assistant district attorney in Walker County, said. “So it’s kind of interesting that the documents just showed up.”


If those are the documents that Penny had removed from the ranch, I’m very surprised he didn’t destroy them. Is Kerry Perry involved in it too, or do you think she really didn’t know about them? And someone there either coincidentally stumbled upon them or someone knew all along they were there. Why come forward now?

Why come forward now? Penny doesn't want to go to prison. He is saying they were never missing at all. I'm fairly certain people knew exactly where they were the whole time.

 

[Flyaway]

Why come forward now? Penny doesn't want to go to prison. He is saying they were never missing at all. I'm fairly certain people knew exactly where they were the whole time.

Agreed. Interesting they say that Nassar's name is not in any of the documents. I wonder if they were tampered with to remove his name? If so, Penny still can't claim to be clean.

 

[aerials]

If those are the documents that Penny had removed from the ranch, I’m very surprised he didn’t destroy them. Is Kerry Perry involved in it too, or do you think she really didn’t know about them? And someone there either coincidentally stumbled upon them or someone knew all along they were there. Why come forward now?

Exactly my thoughts. Interesting that they show up after Kerry Perry has been removed.

 

[jamieintexas]

I am so disgusted by this. I'm ashamed to be a member of this organization. I am disgusted by the people who continue to stand by USAG, including the people who stood by and said nothing as all of this was going down. I'm disheartened by the people who are more worried about the future of gymnastics than the well being of children involved in the sport and now adults who were harmed physically and emotionally during their time in the sport as children/young adults. The culture of abuse is so ingrained in this sport and I am more and more baffled each day by what is considered par for the course. The last few months have really pushed me over the edge from ardent supporter of the merits of gymnastics to outright cynic and I hate that.

This 100%. I have been a member since 1978, I have been coaching since 1986, my son is a coach. I want to watch USAG burn to the ground!

 

[mignonone]

Agreed. Interesting they say that Nassar's name is not in any of the documents. I wonder if they were tampered with to remove his name? If so, Penny still can't claim to be clean.

I wonder how much they have been altered? They would have to have been tampered with.....

 

[profmom]

Just when you think it can't get any worse.

 

[Flyaway]

I wonder how much they have been altered? They would have to have been tampered with.....

Exactly. I'm curious what sort of documents these are anyway? If they were medical records, there wouldn't be anything incriminating on them anyway right? Because Nassar wouldn't be a fool to document the abuse. Are they email exchanges?

 

[raenndrops]

@bogwoppit I find it disgusting at best that there are still individuals that support and believe that an organization willing to file bankruptcy to hide from paying victims it has damaged so deeply should still be looking after their offspring needs a serious check on what is important in life. SMH

It was actually a lawyer that suggested it.

 

[John]

@raenndrops understood, but I feel there are parents out there right now feeling that USAG should stay because if it disappears their child will somehow suffer. To those parents, I say I feel your pain but remember the best athletes are still the best athletes no matter the NGB. I also believe that every athlete potentially suffers if USAG retains its authority.

 

[B&M's mom]

My comments are not meant to support USAG's conduct in any way. I just want to clarify somethings that may not be evident. First, there are several different kinds of bankruptcy. Declaring bankruptcy can result in an entity being totally dissolved or restructured. The filing will definitely result in the assets of the entity being distributed to the claimants but that does not mean that the claimants will be fully compensated. Generally an entity files when it realizes that it has liabilities or potential liabilities that are in excessive of its assets. It is hard to say what assets USAG has available to it to pay claims. Looking at its tax returns, there wasn't a lot of money leftover. Its also a 501(c)(3) so it should not be making big profits on anything but rather plowing the money back into the programs. So it is very possible that it knows that it cannot pay a big settlement to the victims which may be a reason to consider bankruptcy. If that happens, all the victims can file claims and share in the distribution of the assets once the case has gone through the bankruptcy process but they may not be able to get much.

Second, having a new NGB would mean starting from scratch. Assets of USAG would likely include all the materials they sell to the clubs for training purposes if they are copyrighted and/or trademarked. A new NGB would not be legally able to use USAG's materials without it's permission. It's possible that if USAG were to go into bankruptcy, they could sell the materials to a new NGB who could then use them. Any money from the sale would then be distributed to the claimants. But its hard to understand how there can be an NGB that just handles the elite programs as it appears that the JO programs support the elite program so any NGB would have to develop a lower level development program to support the elite programs.

Third, the discovery of the documents may not be as nefarious as it seems. Having worked with large corporations with offices in different states, it's amazing that more documents aren't lost or misfiled. From what little I've read, it sounds like the documents from the Ranch were sent to Indianapolis and vanished along the way. It may be as simple as the box(es) were put on a shelf instead of given to the right person or they could have been deliberately hidden. It's hard to tell at this point but believe me, documents are lost and found more frequently than you'd imagine.

 

[M2Abi]

The timing of the documents reappearance seems suspicious to me.

 

[gymgal]

Wouldn't USAG have insurance policies to pay partials of any lawsuits? What happens if they do file bankruptcy? Would these policies still be required to pay?

 

[raenndrops]

Wouldn't USAG have insurance policies to pay partials of any lawsuits? What happens if they do file bankruptcy? Would these policies still be required to pay?

Yes, from what I understand, the insurance would still be required to pay. ... They just wouldnt have to pay for anyone who does not come forward as a victim before the bankruptcy is filed.

 

[bogwoppit]

Wouldn't USAG have insurance policies to pay partials of any lawsuits? What happens if they do file bankruptcy? Would these policies still be required to pay?

The insurance companies “have refused liability” was what I heard. USAG’s lack of action on the reports allowed many girls to be abused. I also heard USAG was fighting with the insurance company.

 

[B&M's mom]

Insurance is tricky. There are many different types of insurance policies so a lot will depend on what type of policies USAG bought and what limits they paid for. However, most liability policies have exclusions for sexual abuse claims so those policies would likely not respond if USAG is sued because of Nassar's conduct. Many policies also exclude coverage for intentional conduct or known losses such as knowing that someone is abusing someone and not doing anything about it. There is the potential that if there are no relevant exclusions, policies in place before USAG knew of Nassar's conduct could possibly respond. Additionally if USAG failed to give proper notice of the claims, that might also defeat coverage under the policies. Depending on the policy language and the facts, there may be some coverage but probably not nearly enough to fund the type of settlement that people expect.

 

[suds]

....... I'm disheartened by the people who are more worried about the future of gymnastics than the well being of children involved in the sport and now adults who were harmed physically and emotionally during their time in the sport as children/young adults. The culture of abuse is so ingrained in this sport and I am more and more baffled each day by what is considered par for the course. The last few months have really pushed me over the edge from ardent supporter of the merits of gymnastics to outright cynic and I hate that.

Yes. I struggle, daily, with a tremendous amount of anger.
The Nassar / USAG evolving debacles, and what they have exposed, has stirred the beast within.
I’m really pissed off.

The choice I’ve made: I choose to stay in the gymnastics community and convert this deep-seated anger into a more helpful form of energy - affecting positive change in my corner of the world.

My daily mantra….”Be the change you that you wish to see in the world.” - Gandhi.
I have found this approach to be extremely helpful, therapeutic, and productive.

Those who care deeply about the well-being of children, and who are up to the challenges, need to stay.
I implore you to stay.
It's how we, as a gymnastics community, convert this horrific nightmare into enduring good for the future.