Vault finals?

[Dahlia]

Simone's winning vault score was higher than the gold medal score for the men! (Purposely not saying who and the score to not spoil it for others).

 

[Faith]

I feel the need to post this. If you can't do it like this, don't do it.

 

[Dahlia]

Karmarkar came really close in 2014 (legs bent on landing). I do wonder if the vault table vs. the vault horse has changed the way the vault is done/launched. Could Produnova do one off of the new table?

 

[Iwannabemargo]

just WOW, on the old equipment too

 

[Faith]

Irony is, under the old 10.0 scoring, she never won a major vault title. Now people are butt landing it and nearly getting olympic medals...

Same for her floor.

 

[Dahlia]

The code of points for vault will be new in 2017. I've heard it rumoured that they are going to lower the d score for the Produnova next cycle most likely due to how easy it is to do lousy execution and still get a high score.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

The new value is 6.4. It used to be 7.0. All the start values are dropping down about 0.5 points in the next code.

 

[Aero]

I feel the need to post this. If you can't do it like this, don't do it.

SO. MUCH. YES.
Seriously, though! When a skill has a high potential for injury, you should not mess around at all. Yes, Olympic glory is enticing for both athlete and coach, but there are two things at stake: injury to the athlete, and coaching credibility. Every time I see a consistently bad performance from an athlete, I blame the coach. If an athlete consistently does poorly on a specific skill, it is most likely the coach pushing the athlete on the skill before they're ready. There's this thing called optimal surplus. It's where the athlete has the ability to execute higher level skills, but competes a little bit below that level to ensure cleanliness and ease of performance on the routines and skills. It's like having a back handspring step-out on beam, but competing a back walkover instead because it's much cleaner. This process should be ongoing for every skill, and on every apparatus. This ensures increasing difficulty while still maintaining great execution. When you see an athlete sitting down on a Produnova vault, there is no optimal surplus! It should not be competed unless it's clean, and therefore, safe!

Actually sorry. I messed up. The vault he did is not called a Dragalescu. It's what I said it was, 1/2 on double pike off, but I forget the name of it. Brooks does a Prudonova. Sorry for the confusion!

Handspring forward to double forward somersault tucked
MAG: Roche; 5.6 D
WAG: Produnova; 7.0 D

Handspring forward to double forward somersault tucked, half twist out
MAG: Dragulescu; 6.0 D

Handspring forward to double forward somersault piked
MAG: Blanik; 6.0 D

Handspring forward to double forward somersault piked, half twist out
MAG: Ri Se Gwang II; 6.4 D

Tsukahara to double backward somersault tucked
MAG: Yeo; 5.6 D

Tsukahara to double backward somersault piked
MAG: Lu Yu Fu; 6.0 D

Yurchenko with 2 ½ twists stretched
MAG: Shewfelt; 5.6 D
WAG: Amanar; 6.3 D

Yurchenko with 3 twists stretched
MAG: Shirai; 6.0 D
WAG: Jong (almost!!!); 6.8 D

Samir Ait Said performs a Yeo, and Chris Brooks performs a Blanik. And let me just throw a shout out to Igor Radivilov and Kenzo Shirai for going BALLS TO THE WALL. I literally could not believe what I was watching. A Yurchenko 3 ½, and a front handspring TRIPLE FRONT?!?!?!

W T F ! ! ! ! ! !


One of the most insane things I have ever watched...

 

[Terry]

Now people are butt landing it and nearly getting olympic medals...

Except that's just not true. Dipa got a 14.866 and Chuso a 14.933 for their Produnovas. Nowhere near medaling. And neither actually "butt landed" it. Chuso landed very low and had to flip out of it. Dipa landed feet first and then sat.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Except that's just not true. Dipa got a 14.866 and Chuso a 14.933 for their Produnovas. Nowhere near medaling. And neither actually "butt landed" it. Chuso landed very low and had to flip out of it. Dipa landed feet first and then sat.

If 4th place isn't "near medaling"...what is?

 

[Dahlia]

Except that's just not true. Dipa got a 14.866 and Chuso a 14.933 for their Produnovas. Nowhere near medaling. And neither actually "butt landed" it. Chuso landed very low and had to flip out of it. Dipa landed feet first and then sat.

Dipa got a 15.066 in the finals. It was less than 2/10ths behind Giulia. Oksana was 14.833 (hers was well out of medal contention, but Dipa was very close). This was for both vaults combined, but that's still in medal contention. Link Removed According to that site, Dipa got a 15.266 for her Produnova, not a 14.866 (that was for her first vault with a D score of 6).

I think both women knew their only chance of getting near Simone was to go for it and hope it pays off. It didn't, but if either had landed it they would have easily had silver.

 

[Terry]

I thought we were talking specifically about their Produnovas. Lets not mix apples with oranges.

 

[Dahlia]

I thought we were talking specifically about their Produnovas. Lets not mix apples with oranges.

Either way, Dipa's Produnova was the score that brought her average up and her into 4th, despite the messy landing.

 

[Terry]

Either way, Dipa's Produnova was the score that brought her average up and her into 4th, despite the messy landing.

well, that's true, I was looking at her first score so I stand corrected . But still the produnova is an almost impossibly difficult vault. And she landed it. Then sat it down. I thought it was a fair score.

 

[Dahlia]

well, that's true, I was looking at her first score so I stand corrected . But still the produnova is an almost impossibly difficult vault. And she landed it. Then sat it down. I thought it was a fair score.

Yes, totally fair. What is interesting when looking at the score breakdown is that Simone and Giulia were the only 2 with 9+ execution scores. Maria got silver largely due to her D scores (her D value was the same as Simone, 6.4 and 6.3) while Guilia earned bronze because of her E scores (her difficulty was 6.2 and 5.8). So while Maria didn't do a crazy high value vault, her vaults were more difficult than what she was capable of executing cleanly, unlike Simone and Giulia.

 

[Sasha]

While yes, technically Dipa "landed it", meaning feet did hit the ground a split second before her bum brushes the surface in a full on squat, I think the issue people have here (and I agree), is that when you consistently 'land' a vault in a deep squat with bum brushing the ground, and you are actually pleased with that outcome as a 'successful' vault landing (as evidenced by Dipa's happy face after that 'landing'), the standard for execution is too low and the reward too high. The code should not be rewarding people so highly for such low-squatted landings (what I believe previous posters here call 'butt landings' despite technically having feet down first) so much that knowing you are in all likelihood going to at best deep-squat land can still place you in/near Olympic medal contention. Landing consistently in a low squat is dangerous, ugly, and I think not in line with the spirit of Olympic-level vault achievement.

Can't blame Dipa for working the system as her 'butt landing' (visually, that is what it is - again, yes, I know technically was feet first but her butt did scrape the mat) could have realistically equaled an Olympic medal, so why not try? She played by the rules, gave her best, and more power to her. Personally, I'm happy to hear the code is changing the start value in the future, though.

OK if others disagree and like the current code that rewards more difficulty and are less inclined to consider the landing as important here. It's all subjective.

 

[Terry]

While yes, technically Dipa "landed it", meaning feet did hit the ground a split second before her bum brushes the surface in a full on squat, I think the issue people have here (and I agree), is that when you consistently 'land' a vault in a deep squat with bum brushing the ground, and you are actually pleased with that outcome as a 'successful' vault landing (as evidenced by Dipa's happy face after that 'landing'), the standard for execution is too low and the reward too high. The code should not be rewarding people so highly for such low-squatted landings (what I believe previous posters here call 'butt landings' despite technically having feet down first) so much that knowing you are in all likelihood going to at best deep-squat land can still place you in/near Olympic medal contention. Landing consistently in a low squat is dangerous, ugly, and I think not in line with the spirit of Olympic-level vault achievement.

Can't blame Dipa for working the system as her 'butt landing' (visually, that is what it is - again, yes, I know technically was feet first but her butt did scrape the mat) could have realistically equaled an Olympic medal, so why not try? She played by the rules, gave her best, and more power to her. Personally, I'm happy to hear the code is changing the start value in the future, though.

OK if others disagree and like the current code that rewards more difficulty and are less inclined to consider the landing as important here. It's all subjective.

I totally see your point. I guess I am just in such awe of any women who would even try the Produnova.