Women Whistleblowing

[UGA2016]

Hi everyone

Following on from the Haney/McCusker thread where there was discussion around motives behind formal complaints and how coaches may feel scared to have complaints filed against them with SafeSport for minor transgressions or malicious complaints - here is a blog post about the effect whistleblowing can have on the person taking their concerns to the authorities. It is an interesting read and highlights the emotional cost of whistleblowing. Just something to consider when it seems people may make complaints purely due to personal grievances with little regard for the effect the outcome may have for all involved. PS not saying false accusations do not happen but they are extremely rare and I sympathise with any coach who has had a false report made against them.

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[Tigtimes]

not saying false accusations do not happen but they are extremely rare and I sympathise with any coach who has had a false report made against them.

Not as rare as you would think....sadly there are parents out there with an ax to grind and are using the system to do that. An abuse of the system made to protect. Don’t know how those parents sleep at night

 

[Faith]

Personally i’d like to see an independent body set up for sport generally for people to take concerns to.

issue i’ve found at the moment is that the very people you’re supposed to take your concerns to are people who have the power to get your child blacklisted. From welfare officers in clubs often being friends of owners or coaches, to national selectors.

if there were a sport safeguarding office say as part of social services, who could investigate independently, i think that would go a long way to reducing the fear of reporting. Plus coaches wrongly accused would have an independent investigation.

 

[UGA2016]

Not as rare as you would think....sadly there are parents out there with an ax to grind and are using the system to do that. An abuse of the system made to protect. Don’t know how those parents sleep at night

I believe it happens regularly enough to cause concern within the coaching community, but the documented percentage of false reporting compared to valid reports is still relatively small. This may be due to lack of research on false reporting or that those stories go unheard as they do not fit the safeguarding narrative. I believe the point of the post was to highlight how the person who discloses wrong doing can be affected by the process and also to explain why others who see the issues may not report rendering the whistleblower as a 'lone wolf'. Hopefully there will be more research into the effects of whistleblowing in sport for all concerned.

 

[UGA2016]

Personally i’d like to see an independent body set up for sport generally for people to take concerns to.

In the US SafeSport is supposed to be the body to do this - however, I understand they are predominantly there to look into sexual abuse allegations and more general safeguarding concerns are still considered by USAG.

In the UK you are right, all concerns (outside criminal cases) are 'investigated' by British Gymnastics - without an independent body it will always be difficult for people to trust the NGB to investigate fairly especially at the higher levels of the sport. However, I feel those at the elite level with so much to lose would be reluctant to report to any establishment.

 

[Cmumgym]

Don’t all gyms have cameras ? I totally understand all of the safe sport and really bad circumstances however a lot of false accusations can be overcome with cameras in the gym

 

[raenndrops]

Don’t all gyms have cameras ? I totally understand all of the safe sport and really bad circumstances however a lot of false accusations can be overcome with cameras in the gym

Not all gyms have cameras. I think it would be a good idea, but they can be expensive ...
and if there are cameras, the families of the gymnasts all have to sign off on their children being recorded ...
You may not think this would be a problem, but in our gym at one point, we had a gymnast that was not allowed to be recorded or photographed and her name was not allowed to be posted in meet results or in a meet program - she was simply listed as "G K" in our home meet program and only did home meets to prevent her name from being listed in other meet programs. She was also home schooled by her mother.

The expense is prohibitive in some gyms ... AND if a head coach / owner IS KNOWINGLY breaking the rules, I doubt they would want cameras in their gym (assuming the coach is also the owner) even if they could afford them.

 

[Aussie_coach]

My gym has cameras but they will pick up visual footage and not sound. Gyms are such loud and busy places it would be very hard to pick up sound effectively. Also the footage is only automatically saved for play back for two weeks. We can save particular footage for longer, but we would need to know to do it. Accusations made at a later date would be a problem.

 

[flippin out]

also, just bc there may be cameras does not mean that anyone except the owner has access to said camera. Many HC are also the owner....so, not helpful. There are a few gyms around that have a live feed available to anyone with the code (which some gyms give out to parents for viewing, but not many). And to tag off of what @raenndrops said, that is logistically another problem -- getting all parents (even rec) to sign waivers allowing their kid to seen on live feed. Most of the live feed videos are simply that, LIVE and not saved anywhere (or so I'm told) and have no audio equipped with it

Also, I know of one owner in our past that did indeed have cameras with sound (both in the gym and lobby), but used them more to eavesdrop on their employees conversations in the gym and parents talking to each other in the lobby.

 

[Omelianchik]

Not as rare as you would think....

Do you have any evidence for that? As far as I'm aware, the evidence is pretty conclusive that false reporting of abuse is a) rare and b) not significantly different from false reporting of other crimes. (That doesn't mean it never happens or that people who are falsely accused do not suffer terribly, but I see this idea on this forum pretty often and as far as I know - and I work in a field that requires fairly in-depth knowledge of the subject - it simply isn't factual).

To be honest, I find it really concerning that there seems to be such a strong investment in the idea that false reporting is a rampant problem when what we actually have concrete evidence about is that the gymnastics community (and society at large) has bent over backwards to ignore and dismiss claims of abuse.

 

[Solid444]

Do you have any evidence for that? As far as I'm aware, the evidence is pretty conclusive that false reporting of abuse is a) rare and b) not significantly different from false reporting of other crimes. (That doesn't mean it never happens or that people who are falsely accused do not suffer terribly, but I see this idea on this forum pretty often and as far as I know - and I work in a field that requires fairly in-depth knowledge of the subject - it simply isn't factual).

To be honest, I find it really concerning that there seems to be such a strong investment in the idea that false reporting is a rampant problem when what we actually have concrete evidence about is that the gymnastics community (and society at large) has bent over backwards to ignore and dismiss claims of abuse.

I too have seen false reporting first hand a number of times. We have relocated to our now 4th gym in the US and both my wife and I have witnessed parents who don’t get their desired outcome then turn to safesport to accuse gym and/or coaches of mental abuse. After they stayed at said gym for years and would have continued to stay until their DD hit a progression wall and coach no longer allowed them to control said coach.

This is not to discourage true victims from coming forward. But it’s unfair and egregious to jeopardize a coach’s livelihood and reputation when you were ok with an environment as long as you and your child benefited. Parents can’t support and praise coaches at the expense of their children so long as they are benefitting then claim mental and emotional abuse once you are no longer benefiting.

We witnessed another group of parents at a former gym left the gym then tried to come back and got denied; then went to safesport with mental abuse claims. However they would have come back to gym if allowed. I don’t know about you but I would not beg to come back to a so-called abusive environment.

It’s not implausible to believe that Parents, some who are willing to invest their life savings to achieve their DD’s dreams would become disgruntled when things don’t go their way to then claim emotional abuse.

Or that one family who swears they witnessed said coach pull down, pull hair, or slap DD...yet they stay for an additional 3 years, file no police report or make record of such incident....again until they are no longer benefiting. They have no proof or record just he say she say....should a coach lose their livelihood over he said she said? I think not

If a coach were to ever put their hands on my DDs we are immediately filing a police report no questions asked. We wouldn’t wait 3 years then report to safe sport.

If we all worked in the best interest of our children there would be less false accusations but more records and proof.

Also please keep in mind that mental and emotional abuse is subjective and very hard to prove without evidence which can often mimic a false report.

We must be careful not to damage and destroy a coach’s livelihood without a full and independent investigation.

 

[Omelianchik]

I too have seen false reporting first hand a number of times. We have relocated to our now 4th gym in the US and both my wife and I have witnessed parents who don’t get their desired outcome then turn to safesport to accuse gym and/or coaches of mental abuse. After they stayed at said gym for years and would have continued to stay until their DD hit a progression wall and coach no longer allowed them to control said coach.

This is not to discourage true victims from coming forward. But it’s unfair and egregious to jeopardize a coach’s livelihood and reputation when you were ok with an environment as long as you and your child benefited. Parents can’t support and praise coaches at the expense of their children so long as they are benefitting then claim mental and emotional abuse once you are no longer benefiting.

We witnessed another group of parents at a former gym left the gym then tried to come back and got denied; then went to safesport with mental abuse claims. However they would have come back to gym if allowed. I don’t know about you but I would not beg to come back to a so-called abusive environment.

It’s not implausible to believe that Parents, some who are willing to invest their life savings to achieve their DD’s dreams would become disgruntled when things don’t go their way to then claim emotional abuse.

Or that one family who swears they witnessed said coach pull down, pull hair, or slap DD...yet they stay for an additional 3 years, file no police report or make record of such incident....again until they are no longer benefiting. They have no proof or record just he say she say....should a coach lose their livelihood over he said she said? I think not

If a coach were to ever put their hands on my DDs we are immediately filing a police report no questions asked. We wouldn’t wait 3 years then report to safe sport.

If we all worked in the best interest of our children there would be less false accusations but more records and proof.

Also please keep in mind that mental and emotional abuse is subjective and very hard to prove without evidence which can often mimic a false report.

We must be careful not to damage and destroy a coach’s livelihood without a full and independent investigation.

I'm genuinely not sure what your point you're making.

You've listed examples of what you believe to be false accusations, then said that genuine abuse can look like a false report. I believe that both of those things are true: false reports do exist (and you believe you've seen cases of this first hand) and genuine reports are often mistakenly viewed as false because abuse is often a crime without witnesses and witnesses may not interpret what occurred as abuse. I'm not sure where we disagree here, if we do.

To your last point, I haven't seen anyone argue against a full and independent investigation. I do think the point UGA2016 was highlighting is important, though - people seem to dramatically underestimate how difficult it is for most people to come forward with an abuse report and I definitely don't see people acknowledging how terribly whistle-blowers are typically treated when the discussion of false allegation comes up. Mostly, though, I think that constantly jumping in with "but what about all the false allegations?" contributes to the idea that false allegations are common and reports are "automatically" believed, when neither of those things are true and seeing those beliefs expressed makes victims doubt whether they'll be believed. I also don't think it does anything to actually protect coaches from false allegations and I do wish we could channel some of that concern into things that are actually productive (e.g. ensuring gyms have clear policies in place to make sure coaches aren't put in situations where there aren't witnesses to their interactions gymnasts, or advocating for amendments to investigation/reporting procedures if these aren't effective).

 

[Solid444]

I'm genuinely not sure what your point you're making.

You've listed examples of what you believe to be false accusations, then said that genuine abuse can look like a false report. I believe that both of those things are true: false reports do exist (and you believe you've seen cases of this first hand) and genuine reports are often mistakenly viewed as false because abuse is often a crime without witnesses and witnesses may not interpret what occurred as abuse. I'm not sure where we disagree here, if we do.

To your last point, I haven't seen anyone argue against a full and independent investigation. I do think the point UGA2016 was highlighting is important, though - people seem to dramatically underestimate how difficult it is for most people to come forward with an abuse report and I definitely don't see people acknowledging how terribly whistle-blowers are typically treated when the discussion of false allegation comes up. Mostly, though, I think that constantly jumping in with "but what about all the false allegations?" contributes to the idea that false allegations are common and reports are "automatically" believed, when neither of those things are true and seeing those beliefs expressed makes victims doubt whether they'll be believed. I also don't think it does anything to actually protect coaches from false allegations and I do wish we could channel some of that concern into things that are actually productive (e.g. ensuring gyms have clear policies in place to make sure coaches aren't put in situations where there aren't witnesses to their interactions gymnasts, or advocating for amendments to investigation/reporting procedures if these aren't effective).

The point I was making was to you asking if there was proof of false accusations when multiple previous posters have stated that false accusations do occur.

I personally know of false reports being made and I gave examples of such.

My last point was that the way coaches talk to their athletes is subjective. What’s offensive to you may not be offensive to me and vice versa. And I think there is a fine line we all must walk before destroying a coaches livelihood over mere talk.

That takes nothing away from whistleblowers filing reports. I don’t victim blame nor discourage anyone calling abusive behaviors out. What I do have a problem with is the attempting to destroy any professional’s livelihood once people are upset, making false claims once there is no longer a benefit to them which happens a lot in this sport.

For example I’d feel the same way about a teacher if a parent demanded a child be placed in a certain learning group and once teacher refused the Parent then goes to the Principal and says the teacher yells at the kids and treats them bad causing mental abuse and now that teacher is tarnished.

All victims of abuse of any kind should come forward and not be discouraged. And I understand it can be emotionally draining like the original poster said, but the accused has a right to a defense and a right to defend themselves which includes digging into the background of the accuser. This happens in courtrooms everyday.

 

[Faith]

Or that one family who swears they witnessed said coach pull down, pull hair, or slap DD...yet they stay for an additional 3 years, file no police report or make record of such incident....again until they are no longer benefiting. They have no proof or record just he say she say....should a coach lose their livelihood over he said she said? I think not

If a coach were to ever put their hands on my DDs we are immediately filing a police report no questions asked. We wouldn’t wait 3 years then report to safe sport.

are you familiar with abuse? It is not at all unusual not to report at the time. Especially with emotional abuse where a dependency is fostered- the victims self-worth is destroyed to the point they think it’s their fault they make the abuser angry, the abuser is the only one who cares for them, they wouldn’t act this way if they didn’t care.

it’s the same as domestic abuse. It’s easy to judge women who won’t leave an abusive partner, who file a complaint then withdraw, who go straight back to him after an ER visit despite being offered a womens refuge.

It’s the same in sport. These kids think it’s their fault. The coach will come out after training, all pleasant and say they had to discipline their child for x,y and z, set the narrative. The Parents are often groomed as much as the athlete.

an athlete local to me was physically assaulted. The parents reported to club welfare. The minimised, it was a one off, coach is heartbroken, promises to change. Other parents turned a blind eye as it wasn’t their kid, a report meant their child could lose their coach who was essential for success. So it wan’t escalated. Only a year later after their child had been kicked off the squad and was miserable, confidence destroyed, did they realise how serious it had been and that they probably should have gone straight to the police. We are told to trust coaches...

this is why abusers so often get away with it. It’s not until people are away from the situation they see it for what it was. Then they’re not believed, or dismissed as bitter because their child didn’t succeed.

we should believe every victim.

I do believe investigations should be anonymous until

 

[Solid444]

are you familiar with abuse? It is not at all unusual not to report at the time. Especially with emotional abuse where a dependency is fostered- the victims self-worth is destroyed to the point they think it’s their fault they make the abuser angry, the abuser is the only one who cares for them, they wouldn’t act this way if they didn’t care.

it’s the same as domestic abuse. It’s easy to judge women who won’t leave an abusive partner, who file a complaint then withdraw, who go straight back to him after an ER visit despite being offered a womens refuge.

It’s the same in sport. These kids think it’s their fault. The coach will come out after training, all pleasant and say they had to discipline their child for x,y and z, set the narrative. The Parents are often groomed as much as the athlete.

an athlete local to me was physically assaulted. The parents reported to club welfare. The minimised, it was a one off, coach is heartbroken, promises to change. Other parents turned a blind eye as it wasn’t their kid, a report meant their child could lose their coach who was essential for success. So it wan’t escalated. Only a year later after their child had been kicked off the squad and was miserable, confidence destroyed, did they realise how serious it had been and that they probably should have gone straight to the police. We are told to trust coaches...

this is why abusers so often get away with it. It’s not until people are away from the situation they see it for what it was. Then they’re not believed, or dismissed as bitter because their child didn’t succeed.

we should believe every victim.

I do believe investigations should be anonymous until

Oh I agree! It should be investigated as anonymous until a decision has been reached

As a former gymnast I understand abuse very well.

 

[UGA2016]

These kids think it’s their fault. The coach will come out after training, all pleasant and say they had to discipline their child for x,y and z, set the narrative. The Parents are often groomed as much as the athlete.

The research on emotional abuse supports what Faith is saying. I am aware of a child who's parents removed them from a club due to emotional abuse and physical abuse and 2 years later the child begged to return to the coach. The child threatened to kill herself if she couldn't return to the coach leaving the parents to deal with a very difficult situation.

For an idea of how emotional abuse affects parents and child athletes the blog post below highlights some research in the area. As Faith suggested, it is a grooming process.

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[Aussie_coach]

If a coach were to ever put their hands on my DDs we are immediately filing a police report no questions asked. We wouldn’t wait 3 years then report to safe sport.

Problem is, as coaches, we have to put our hands on the kids. We spot them, catch them, sometimes have to grab them and pull them out of the way of being landed on, fix their shapes etc. Accidents happen, we might accidentally touch them in an uncomfortable spot, when we spot. We do our utmost to ensure we don’t, we apologise if we do but it happens to all of us.

As I am a female coach, people seem to understand that such accidents happen. Male coaches are often victim to of greater criticism in this regard.

 

[coachmolly]

I think we need to do better at taking all claims seriously. Maybe it is a family that has some sour grapes, maybe it is a kid who has been causing problems in the gym and the coach disciplined in an appropriate way that the child blew out of proportion, but maybe there is a real problem that needs to be addressed and it would be terrible if it were missed because of assumptions.
Head coaches/gym owners want to support their staff (in most cases) and will stand behind them first in these types of situations, and I don't think that's wrong. Gym owners should feel confident in the staff they've hired. But being confident in your staff doesn't mean you can't also hear a complaint about them and take it seriously- coaches are human, they make mistakes, there are personalities that just don't work well together- there are plenty of times a complaint could potentially lead to better understanding and dialogue on the part of all involved parties if it's allowed to happen. But I think too often that's not even a possibility because coaches/gym owners shoot those discussions down before they are even allowed to happen. Like Faith said, we need to believe all victims and take them seriously. That doesn't mean broadcast the name of the accused everywhere without further investigation, but it does mean to take the time to listen.
A few months ago I was coaching a particularly challenging group of middle schoolers and one particularly bad practice after repeated reminders to please understand I wanted to help them not nag them I had enough and told one of the ring leaders that I knew she did not like me but she did need to be respectful of me and her teammates. Not the best thing to say, but I was at a loss. This kid's mom called the owner- she wasn't upset just said her child didn't think I liked her and wanted to know more before jumping to conclusions. Instead of offering to have a meeting with me to clear the air the head coach told the mom that she was proud of me for being firm for once because I usually let the kids walk all over me and needed to learn to put my foot down when needed. I felt terrible and worked harder to make it clear to the child I didn't dislike her and we had a fine season together. And while I was glad the owner supported me and knew me enough to know I wouldn't intentionally hurt anyone, I also felt incredibly uncomfortable that a concern was raised, albeit a small one, and the owner brushed it off so quickly- would she do the same thing with a more serious complaint? What about a complaint about potential verbal or emotional abuse? Because there were other things happening in the gym that were coming dangerously close to those labels. This was not a big issue at all, but would it have hurt anyone to at least offer a meeting to work things through? Nope. But in this gym where coaches asserting dominance over their athletes was the norm to be praised, my mistake was viewed as nothing, even progress in the right direction. But if you can't handle the little issues and mistakes that inevitably happen because both coaches and athletes are human, how are you going to handle the big ones?
I walked away from coaching a few months ago because I didn't know what to do. I didn't like that being kind and understanding was also viewed as being weak as a coach. I didn't like that I wasn't held accountable for what was a mistake on my part. I didn't like that I was being praised for taking steps towards becoming the kind of coach I didn't want to become. I didn't like that success was more important than physical and emotional well being. I didn't like that complaints (even really big ones) were just viewed as a logistical pain in the butt rather than problems to be worked through. It's frustrating and I can't imagine what this climate must feel like to those who are brave enough to step forward with big complaints about problems that can potentially impact these athletes for life knowing they will probably be shot down or made to jump through all kinds of hoops only to have the complaint filed somewhere never to be spoken of again.
Sorry for such a long post with no real answers, but I really wish I knew how to fix it. I love gymnastics, I think sports are important and good and play a crucial role in the lives of children involved and I miss being involved.

 

[MILgymFAM]

@Solid444, just because you *think* they’re false claims doesn’t make it fact. My daughter was abused by a coach and when she filed a report through safesport- years later after we’d left the area due to fear of reprisals, she was online bullied by former teammates who thought their own treatment and hers was par for the course in gymnastics and she just wasn’t tough enough. She’s as tough as they come though, and I take responsibility for my part in letting it go on at all. That said, what in the world would be the point of false reporting? If it isn’t sexual abuse or a famous coach, usag doesn’t really give a whit about it. It’s been two years since my daughter reported and she had exactly two communications, both of which said they’ll get to it eventually. It’s a complete joke with only real consequences for the girl who reports, in our experience. I almost wished I had nudged my daughter not to report because of the bullying.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I also wanted to add separately that my younger daughter, who used to be a gymnast, dealt with some borderline coaching. She was told she was faking injuries and illness, publicly embarrassed, told she couldn’t set foot in the gym with her “injuries”- quotes added by the coach. Eventually they tried to push her down to a lower training level as punishment (but not a lower competition level) and I said enough. We found a new gym that night and she was happy soon.. I just had my happy-go-lucky girl again. But, in all honesty her gymnastics suffered because the nicer coach wasn’t a fit for her athletically even though he was emotionally. She still talks today about how maybe she could be on a different path if she had continued put up with the BS at the first gym.

Anyway, awhile after we switched- over a year- another girl and boy from the first gym switched too. Apparently the coach had been pretty mean to them, and even physically abusive at one point. The parents didn’t report him, they just left- and the girl told my daughter she was sorry. That everyone at the first gym was taught to believe she was a faker and just a whiner... but now she understood what my daughter went through. This coach wasn’t mean to everyone. Just people he was mad at, or who he thought weren’t worth his time and effort.