Parents Xcel program scoring for skills

[Gym_mom11]

So this is our first year in excel. We did level one last year but our gym is just strictly going to excel for now. So since you can have more options on your routines is it better to let's say do a ROBH but it not be perfect or do a simpler skill and be perfect? Which would typically give you a better score? I hope that makes sense. Thanks for the input!

 

[raenndrops]

Since there is no bonus for harder skills, the cleanest routine that meets the requirements will score the best.

 

[CuriousCate]

I would think easier but clean. We had some girls on silver who couldn't do the ROBHS and did a RO-backward roll instead and outscored the ROBHS girls hands down. Also the girls who did kips consistently scored lower than those who did not.

 

[Gym_mom11]

Wow doesn't that seem a little unfair? It seems you should be rewarded for learning/trying the harder skills.... I guess that's the difference between JO and excel....

 

[mls529]

Actually, you are not rewarded in JO for harder skills either. Level 9 and 10 have some rules that allow some bonuses, which I am not as familiar with. And even then, cleanest skills win. In level 6 and 7 in JO, you are not rewarded for a harder optional routine either, and in JO 3-5, as you probably know, all the routines are the exact same, so you can't just throw in a harder skill for more points.

 

[2G1B]

Even at L5, you can do a bhs on beam instead of a bwo, but the cleanest skill wins. No bonus points for the bhs. If a kid has higher skills across all events they should just score comete the next level, where those skills are needed.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

Wow doesn't that seem a little unfair? It seems you should be rewarded for learning/trying the harder skills.... I guess that's the difference between JO and excel....

That’s why we didn’t like xcel and went to JO. I kind of like that everyone does the same routine in compulsories. It feels more fair. DD’s bar routine in bronze was competed by some girls in silver. I think there’s too much flexibility in Xcel.

 

[raenndrops]

That’s why we didn’t like xcel and went to JO. I kind of like that everyone does the same routine in compulsories. It feels more fair. DD’s bar routine in bronze was competed by some girls in silver. I think there’s too much flexibility in Xcel.

But in Xcel, there are only 5 levels. There is more flexibility in case a girl has a weaker event ... You can do harder skills on your stronger events, but then do the minimum on your weaker events.
And once you get past compulsories, JO is the same way (at least in L6 and L7) as Xcel - the cleaner routine outscores the "harder" routine.
Also, the compulsories still have some "options" for some skills: L3 can kip on bars... but a clean glide, pullover will outscore a sloppy kip. L5 beam, a clean BWO will outscore a sloppy BHS.
If your DD's bar routine was competed by some girls in Silver, then she was competing at least 1 more skill than needed. At Silver they CAN go to the high bar, but they are not required to. Were your DD's other routines at the Silver level? If so, she should have been competing Silver.

 

[Flippin'A]

Actually, you are not rewarded in JO for harder skills either. Level 9 and 10 have some rules that allow some bonuses, which I am not as familiar with. And even then, cleanest skills win. In level 6 and 7 in JO, you are not rewarded for a harder optional routine either, and in JO 3-5, as you probably know, all the routines are the exact same, so you can't just throw in a harder skill for more points.

There are also the not up to level deductions that are designed to counteract this a bit, but fewer deductions still tends to be the way to go.

In general, I think rewarding a higher skill level would just exacerbate the sandbagging issue. If level 5s automatically scored higher for competing a bhs how many gyms would hold kids back until they got their bhs so they could win states or whatever? Better to just let kids move up a level if their skills are beyond the one they're competing. I wish JO would allow gymnasts to compete up on specific events. So if you had knockout bars you could be a level 7 bars specialist or whatever while competing all around at level 6. It would help kids who develop unevenly on different events.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

. Were your DD's other routines at the Silver level? If so, she should have been competing Silver.

At the time, we were new to Gymnastics and didn’t know any better, but looking back now, I’m pretty positive that all her routines with the exception of vault were silver level. And I understand the purpose of Xcel. It’s just my personal opinion that the range of allowable skills is too great.

 

[Gym_mom11]

Lots of good things to think about! Im not unhappy with excel in general because I believe it's a better route for us but it gives me something to think about what I feel like she should do in the routines. Something to talk to her coach about. At the same time comp season is a long way away and her ROBH should improve greatly by then....... should being the key word!

 

[3rd_time_around]

Lots of good things to think about! Im not unhappy with excel in general because I believe it's a better route for us but it gives me something to think about what I feel like she should do in the routines. Something to talk to her coach about. At the same time comp season is a long way away and her ROBH should improve greatly by then....... should being the key word!

Xcel. Please....help a grammar girl out. It's called Xcel. Thank you.

 

[Gym_mom11]

...

 

[Gym_mom11]

Xcel. Please....help a grammar girl out. It's called Xcel. Thank you.

Yes thank you I know that. It was a typo.

 

[raenndrops]

Xcel. Please....help a grammar girl out. It's called Xcel. Thank you.

I'm the same way ... and MEET DIRECTORS and GYMS still make the same mistake.

 

[raenndrops]

Lots of good things to think about! Im not unhappy with excel in general because I believe it's a better route for us but it gives me something to think about what I feel like she should do in the routines. Something to talk to her coach about. At the same time comp season is a long way away and her ROBH should improve greatly by then....... should being the key word!

Different gyms have different philosophies about how to use Xcel.
Some gyms want girls to maximize their routines (doing max skills on all events).
Other gyms will do the maximum they can do CLEANLY.
Still others have girls compete Minimum routines.
At any of these gyms, they can be training higher skills, just not competing them.
I have even heard of gyms having girls compete Maximum Routines all season until the State meet. At the State Meet, they rework the routines to Maximize the scores... taking out problem skills, substituting skills that are cleaner, shortening floor routines (not as often).

 

[raenndrops]

There are also the not up to level deductions that are designed to counteract this a bit, but fewer deductions still tends to be the way to go.

In general, I think rewarding a higher skill level would just exacerbate the sandbagging issue. If level 5s automatically scored higher for competing a bhs how many gyms would hold kids back until they got their bhs so they could win states or whatever? Better to just let kids move up a level if their skills are beyond the one they're competing. I wish JO would allow gymnasts to compete up on specific events. So if you had knockout bars you could be a level 7 bars specialist or whatever while competing all around at level 6. It would help kids who develop unevenly on different events.

Not up to level deductions don't come into play until Level 8.
I do agree about letting a gymnast be a specialist in 1-2 events at one level higher while doing AA at the lower level ... like they can in USAIGC.

 

[Gym_mom11]

I'm the same way ... and MEET DIRECTORS and GYMS still make the same mistake.

Yes it was a typo! I know what's it is...

 

[Gym_mom11]

Yes it was a typo! I know what's it is...

Another stupid typo! I hate phones. I promise I can speak proper English!

 

[raenndrops]

Another stupid typo! I hate phones. I promise I can speak proper English!

It's all good. I know yours was a typo.
It is OTHER people who SHOULD know better, but make the mistake REPEATEDLY... like coaches, and gyms, and meet directors, and whoever does the programs and the schedules.
It has been Xcel since 2012ish and 6 years later, some gym websites still have it wrong ... but they have updated other things on the websites.