Parents Xcel vs JO ( separation)

[GymRays]

If they made it possible to score out of xcel and move directly into optionals then it would push the compulsory program out the window.

 

[cbifoja]

Yep.

My impression was that USAG didn't really want to encourage clubs to use Xcel as a way to circumvent compulsories so I'm not surprised that they don't make it easy to do so.

 

[munchkin3]

At our gym, they are completely separate.... Times, leotards, coaches, everything.

JO is JO. It is the path to achieve L10 and beyond.
Xcel is recreational and is not meant for high level gymnastics. Both programs are very valuable for their respective purpose.
It's like flag football vs. tackle football. You can switch to tackle, but first you must catch up to be on par with other tackle players who have been playing for years. Two totally different programs with different objectives. Both are very valuable.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Im

If they made it possible to score out of xcel and move directly into optionals then it would push the compulsory program out the window.

I'm NOT asking this sarcastically (you're the coach not me! ) But would that be such a bad thing?

 

[Jenny]

Im

I'm NOT asking this sarcastically (you're the coach not me! ) But would that be such a bad thing?

I don't think so lol.

 

[GymRays]

Personally, I love Xcel, it's done wonders for my kids love of the sport and gives me the flexibility to make them shine and put in harder or easier skills as I see fit with in the requirements. I coached compulsory for years and I will take xcel over it anyday. I think you can use it recreationally, but I use it as prep for optionals. I know what skills are expected for level 5 jo and I use that to build my xcel routines so they are at the same level before entering optionals. Xcel has gotten a bad rap for being a fall back program for kids that want to compete but will never be good enough for compulsories. I don't look at it this way and neither does our gym.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Personally, I love Xcel, it's done wonders for my kids love of the sport and gives me the flexibility to make them shine and put in harder or easier skills as I see fit with in the requirements. I coached compulsory for years and I will take xcel over it anyday. I think you can use it recreationally, but I use it as prep for optionals. I know what skills are expected for level 5 jo and I use that to build my xcel routines so they are at the same level before entering optionals. Xcel has gotten a bad rap for being a fall back program for kids that want to compete but will never be good enough for compulsories. I don't look at it this way and neither does our gym.

I agree. I was skeptical at first, it is perfect for my DD right now. She is STILL struggling with the darn kip! Like getting it MAYBE 1 of 10 times.. I think in a more competative area or a bigger gym, they would have had her repeat 3. Obviously she needs it to move on, but with Xcel she has the opportunity to compete the pullover for now and still go to the highbar and do a flyaway. And do tougher tumbling passes Ect. This darn kid has a BHS on beam but no kip! LOL! I think Xcel instead of compulsories is preparing her better for the transition to 6/7.

 

[GYM0M]

It's my impression that the Xcel program was designed for gymnasts that couldn't make the time commitment to JO. Before Xcel, these athletes ultimately suffered because they had other interests/commitments/pursuits and still had to compete against other gymnasts that trained upwards of 15 hours per week for compulsories and more for optionals. But now, through Xcel, these girls are now able to pursue a passion for gymnastics along with their other interests. I understand why some gyms use Xcel instead of JO compulsories, really it makes sense & in many ways, the gymnasts that take this route will have an advantage over their JO counterparts; however, the amount of training required to prepare a gymnast for JO optionals is still more than what many gymnasts can commit. Honestly, with all due respect, it's my opinion that using Xcel instead of compulsories, defeats the purpose of the Xcel program's inception principles. Those gymnasts that have other interests are still competing against girls that train waaaay more than they are able to commit. For this reason, I doubt USAG will implement a 'score in' for optionals.
Now, that being said, as to whether or not the teams should be separate....I would say that I think it would depend on how the gymnasts are accepted into the programs. If the gymnast chooses the path on which to commit their time, I think a separation is ok. However, if the coach/club makes the choice for the gymnast, separation would not fare all to well with me.

 

[raenndrops]

I kind of feel there should be a way to score out of xcel directly into optionals instead of having to have a score out meet for level 4 and 5.

It seems like a waste of time to me for these girls to have to learn the compulsory floor and beam routines just for a score out meet. Especially when they have been using their own routines for years and will continue to do so.

I wonder if there is another way to do it. Like maybe have a 'score in' meet instead for level 6/7 where they need to make a qualifying score to enter optionals, but are not eligible for awards or placements at that meet.

They need to connect the 2 systems more and enable more places for gymnasts to start, leave and cross over. Make a more cohesive system.

TECHNICALLY, depending on the gymnast's and parents' patience (and gymnast's age) and the gym's / coach's philosophy, it is possible to enter JO Optionals without first scoring out of L4 and L5...
HOWEVER, the gymnast has to be 14 or older and at least a Freshman in high school. ... If she has the skills (with video evidence), she can be petitioned into L6/L7. Basic Platinum routines (with nice casts on bars and nice split jumps or leaps) should suffice to petition into L6... More advanced Platinum routines (with 2 B skills per event & meeting other L7 requirements) would be enough for petitioning into L7.
If the gym offers the Diamond level (not all gyms do), then those routines, recorded in competition, could be submitted with the petition to L7.
After that, the gymnast could score out of L7 if ready and compete L8.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

It's my impression that the Xcel program was designed for gymnasts that couldn't make the time commitment to JO. Before Xcel, these athletes ultimately suffered because they had other interests/commitments/pursuits and still had to compete against other gymnasts that trained upwards of 15 hours per week for compulsories and more for optionals. But now, through Xcel, these girls are now able to pursue a passion for gymnastics along with their other interests. I understand why some gyms use Xcel instead of JO compulsories, really it makes sense & in many ways, the gymnasts that take this route will have an advantage over their JO counterparts; however, the amount of training required to prepare a gymnast for JO optionals is still more than what many gymnasts can commit. Honestly, with all due respect, it's my opinion that using Xcel instead of compulsories, defeats the purpose of the Xcel program's inception principles. Those gymnasts that have other interests are still competing against girls that train waaaay more than they are able to commit. For this reason, I doubt USAG will implement a 'score in' for optionals.
Now, that being said, as to whether or not the teams should be separate....I would say that I think it would depend on how the gymnasts are accepted into the programs. If the gymnast chooses the path on which to commit their time, I think a separation is ok. However, if the coach/club makes the choice for the gymnast, separation would not fare all to well with me.

I definitely agree that this was not the original intent of the program. But from what I understand using Xcel instead of compulsories is becoming more common. I do feel bad in a way for the kids that are using it the "right" way, because you're right-my DD does train 15 hrs a week at Xcel Gold. But she's doing harder routines and taking deductions because the intent is not to score well in Xcel, but to prepare for optionals. It would be terribly unfair for a kid who trains this way to do bare minimum clean skills and sweep all the awards. That's why I think it would be nice to have another system, but I guess there's no perfect way!

 

[GYM0M]

I definitely agree that this was not the original intent of the program. But from what I understand using Xcel instead of compulsories is becoming more common. I do feel bad in a way for the kids that are using it the "right" way, because you're right-my DD does train 15 hrs a week at Xcel Gold. But she's doing harder routines and taking deductions because the intent is not to score well in Xcel, but to prepare for optionals. It would be terribly unfair for a kid who trains this way to do bare minimum clean skills and sweep all the awards. That's why I think it would be nice to have another system, but I guess there's no perfect way!

Yep, no perfect way. No definitive path that'll get ya from A to Z! Here in TX we have TAAF stream. It's a good option for girls as a precursor to JO. In this stream, there are no age divisions, but instead, a score tier. They move up the tier based on their AA score. They compete USAG JO routines and I believe goes up to L8. Seems to work nicely. I know using Xcel instead of compulsories is becoming more and more common, & in no way do I think these gyms are doing anything wrong. (Like I said earlier, these Xcel gymnasts entering optionals have somewhat of an advantage.) BUT the more common it becomes, the more of a problem for the 'true' Xcel stream gymnast. A similar argument could be made between TOPS gymnasts (@25+) vs JO gymnasts (@15). I, too, wish there was a happy medium....maybe USAG should put an hour per week cap on each stream.....(like that'll EVER happen!). Haha!

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Yep, no perfect way. No definitive path that'll get ya from A to Z! Here in TX we have TAAF stream. It's a good option for girls as a precursor to JO. In this stream, there are no age divisions, but instead, a score tier. They move up the tier based on their AA score. They compete USAG JO routines and I believe goes up to L8. Seems to work nicely. I know using Xcel instead of compulsories is becoming more and more common, & in no way do I think these gyms are doing anything wrong. (Like I said earlier, these Xcel gymnasts entering optionals have somewhat of an advantage.) BUT the more common it becomes, the more of a problem for the 'true' Xcel stream gymnast. A similar argument could be made between TOPS gymnasts (@25+) vs JO gymnasts (@15). I, too, wish there was a happy medium....maybe USAG should put an hour per week cap on each stream.....(like that'll EVER happen!). Haha!

So is TAAF instead of compulsories? Just curious!

 

[GYM0M]

Not exactly. The routines are the same so gyms can ease a gymmie into the JO stream. In JO here, a 9.5 will often not get you in the top 10. For a young one just starting out, the fierce competition can be overwhelming so gyms can opt for TAAF. The seasons are different here too. A gymnast could compete L3 TAAF in the spring to get her feet wet and then JO L3 in the fall. But as a replacement for JO compulsories, no. To be a JO optional gymnast, these gymmies would still have to score out of USAG L4 & L5 (unless 14 and petitioned in).

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Not exactly. The routines are the same so gyms can ease a gymmie into the JO stream. In JO here, a 9.5 will often not get you in the top 10. For a young one just starting out, the fierce competition can be overwhelming so gyms can opt for TAAF. The seasons are different here too. A gymnast could compete L3 TAAF in the spring to get her feet wet and then JO L3 in the fall. But as a replacement for JO compulsories, no. To be a JO optional gymnast, these gymmies would still have to score out of USAG L4 & L5 (unless 14 and petitioned in).

Thanks! So much to learn...I wish we lived in a more competative area. I tease my husband about moving to Texas! LOL!

 

[amommyandacoach]

The 14 year old route would work great if half my group wasn't 7-9 years old! All of my little ones training level 7 (my xcel gold group) are all 2nd-5th graders. I think I have one that is 11, but the rest of them are under the age of 10. So I have to test them out. The girls think its fun though, they haven't spent 3 years working the routines so a few weeks is a ok break to learn the routines to test out and we still train their skills during that time they just get to do some easy routines. And they all do level 4 and level 5 bar routines in their bar warm up complex every day so its really just beam and floor.

 

[raenndrops]

The 14 year old route would work great if half my group wasn't 7-9 years old! All of my little ones training level 7 (my xcel gold group) are all 2nd-5th graders. I think I have one that is 11, but the rest of them are under the age of 10. So I have to test them out. The girls think its fun though, they haven't spent 3 years working the routines so a few weeks is a ok break to learn the routines to test out and we still train their skills during that time they just get to do some easy routines. And they all do level 4 and level 5 bar routines in their bar warm up complex every day so its really just beam and floor.

At least they only need a 31 to score out... vault is the FHS = no prob 8.5-9.4 (estimating)
Bars = 8.9 - 9.7 (estimating)
so 17.4 - 19.1 on the stuff they already have...
so they only need to average 6.0 - 6.8 to score out... and if they have the tumbling and leap series, even if they flub some of the stupid poses, they can score in the high 7s or better.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

At least they only need a 31 to score out... vault is the FHS = no prob 8.5-9.4 (estimating)
Bars = 8.9 - 9.7 (estimating)
so 17.4 - 19.1 on the stuff they already have...
so they only need to average 6.0 - 6.8 to score out... and if they have the tumbling and leap series, even if they flub some of the stupid poses, they can score in the high 7s or better.

This is what is hoping for. There's no way she'll score well on floor even though her skills are ok- all the specific dancy stuff would be hard to perfect. But hopefully (once that darn kip is more consistant!!!!!) it'll be good enough for 31. We still have a few more months!

 

[Mrs. Puma]

The 14 year old route would work great if half my group wasn't 7-9 years old! All of my little ones training level 7 (my xcel gold group) are all 2nd-5th graders. I think I have one that is 11, but the rest of them are under the age of 10. So I have to test them out. The girls think its fun though, they haven't spent 3 years working the routines so a few weeks is a ok break to learn the routines to test out and we still train their skills during that time they just get to do some easy routines. And they all do level 4 and level 5 bar routines in their bar warm up complex every day so its really just beam and floor.

This is my DD too..the plan is to score out before 3rd grade. (Fingers crossed! )

 

[Amusibus]

In our gym, excel is a team program, not rec. This is the first year they are doing it at all, and the team has about 15 kids, all gold and platinum. Their minimum is two days a week but they can add days up to 5. The leos are the same as the JO leo from last year, but the JO kids got different ones this year. They practice in the same space and time slots overlap. They are featured much less in public spaces (brochures, facebook, their website, bulletin board) than JO kids, though TOPS kids get the most press. When the gym had a yoga class for "team kids", excel wasn't included. They attend different meets than JO, though twice a year there is overlap. I'm not sure if they let excel kids move to JO, since the program is so new, but I have seen a couple JO kids move to excel (and be happier). Overall, I think my gym does make an effort to integrate them, however there is a lingering sense of "second class citizen" nonetheless.

 

[3gymgirlsmom]

our JO and Xcel are part of the team but the Xcel does not practice even close to what our JO does in hours and the skills of JO are much better , The girls all used to be so rude to the JO girls when the program first started (They would get higher scores but I learned from a Xcel mom that the scoring was judged easier than JO, ~ this is what I was told , I have no clue) our JO program has been for a long time while the Xcel program at our gym is only 2 years