Slap the level 4 mom...

[Petunia]

Please, take a swing...bc deep down inside I'm KNOW I'm probably being unreasonable BUT I HAVE to ask.

For those that haven't already read my 1000 questions she's a young seven, level 4 USAG.
First season, 4th meet.

In everyone's experience, how much does how they do in level 4 weigh on how they end up doing up to maybe level 6 or 7. I'm not sure if that makes sense.

#1 She is continuing to enjoy her season. She's becoming a little more competitive now that she has gotten a taste of victory and defeat. LOL
Bottom line, she's happy BUT she wants to do better. I want her to be happy but not sure if she realizes what she's up against ...YET she's the only one that can say how far she wants to go.

I'm looking at her scores and how she's placing in the meets. It's hard to really compare to anyone else because like I mentioned, almost everyone in her division from the other gyms is on their second year level 4. She started training this summer. Her coach hates the idea of any child repeating level 4 unless they are REALLY REALLY not doing well. So she already told me she's moving up to level 5 next year.

She scored her highest on floor today - 9.25 but was blown away by a couple of 9.7's and 9.8's .
Her other scores are low to high 8's pretty much across the board. She has yet to place in the top 3 in ANY event.

Her coach today told her she probably won't go to state. I don't know how state works for level 4's since I believe this is the first year they do placement for 4's (we're division 3). She was bummed and said "I have one more meet to prove to my coach that I CAN make it to state!" My heart broke!!! BC I'm thinking, let's be realistic.

SO, her dad and I just look at her and go "You did your best, you're enjoying what you're doing...you're having some great experiences!" But she wants MORE. AAAACK!

So bottom line, if she loves it, she'll keep going BUT part of me isn't sure how to help her handle the reality that by looking at the numbers..well, it doesn't look like she wants it to look.

So I go back to my question...just bc she's not having a great season as a level 4, does this pretty much set up level 5? Would they not be setting her up for failure when all the other girls she will be competing against in her division will have done level 4 twice?

TIA!

 

[gymkat]

I was probably the worst level 4 on the planet. I was also an awful L5. However, by level 6, I was placing around 15th AA at state. Fast forward to level 9, and I was 4th AA at state.

There's some correlation, but not being an amazing level 4 certainly won't prevent your daughter from doing well in the future.

 

[Blackie6]

Your're too funny with that slap the mom title...I am not sure what state you are in, but here in NJ (and other states can chime in) you only need a 30AA to make it to sectionals and the have to make a 32AA at a sectional (there are three) to make it to states. My DD went to states as a very immature 6 yr old and came out of there with a medal on vault but came in dead last of all the 6 year olds with a 31 point something AA. But, she had a blast and it was a great experience. Because she was a young 6 we had no problems having her repeat. I felt she needed time to work on the foundations a little with the form, straight legs, pointed toes, ect...but if she were older I am not sure I would have had her sit back another year of 4. Just my opinion, but the bars is the hardest going to L5 & up...they need time on that kip and squat on. That level 4 bar routine doesn't really prep them all that much for that kip! My DD didn't struggle too much with the kip, but sometimes has issues with the squat on.

It doesn't sound like your daughter is doing bad...I mean 9's and high 8's are very good and I don't know why she wouldn't go to states?? If the coach thinks she is ready to go to L5 I would trust that they know your DD's strengths and weaknesses. You can always have her train 5 and be challenged. If it appears she is struggling, you can always opt to repeat 4 and continue to uptrain 5. And from what I've heard from upper level moms, the compulsary years (scores) is no indication on how they will do in L7 7 up. Some girls do well with the cookie cutter routines of compulsary years and some do better creating routines that accentuate their strengths in L7 and up. You just want to make sure she is having fun, and she is showing improvement in herself meet to meet. making small goals for herself. Try hard not to keep eye-balling the competition, LOL, you'll drive yourself nuts! In another year or so you will know the better gyms and girls by name and you just can't worry about it. This is our third year and I didn't even watch one other girls performance, I was too busy cheer for my own DD and her team. It was nice to be surprised when she got called up for a 3rd place ribbon against some 2nd yr 5's on beam!

 

[gymjourneymom]

Let me just say that the reality is most, of the girls she's competing against as L4 won't continue to L6 or L7 or even L5 for that matter. The numbers do speak for themselves. If she is having fun & enjoying the sport...that is what will keep her in it. Don't worry about scores or placement as L4. Seriously. I've seen some AMAZING girls just walk away for various reasons. And girls that were just ok in compulsories, clean up as optionals. Deterimination, hardwork & a LOVE of the sport is what matters. That's what keeps them in the gym long term.

 

[bogwoppit]

Firstly how well a child does in L4 is not an indicator of how well they will do in anything gymnastics or otherwise! Many gyms do not even compete L4 as it is not required by USAG. Statistically speaking the number of girls that compete L4 is huge in comparison to the number of girls who make it to optionals. Tons of girls quit for so many reasons. I seem to remember that by L6 over 75% of girls were no longer in the sport.

All that to say you have to remember that gymnastics is a marathon and not a sprint, at every level skills become harder and take longer to aquire. Learning to let go now whilst your DD is just at the beginning will help you to enjoy the journey much more than you seem to be right now.

Did you ask what the score for States is? It is usually not very high. AT least if you know, you'll know why she won't make it. If her AA is over 33 it would surpise me that she wouldn't qualify, so it is worth a chat with her coach.

As for helping your DD, try not to get too involved with the scores etc. Help her talk about personal goals, like sticking her leaps or her dismounts (things that are attainable) and then when she acheives those goals have a celebration that has nothing to do with scores and medals. We go for ice cream after meets and if they get their goals they get to add a topping for each one. No pressure and they still get ice cream.

As for L5 next year, remember those L5 skills are a lot bigger than the L4 ones and they can take time to get. It is also good to remind her that every little girls goes to meets hoping to be first and no little girl goes to meets hoping to be last. How many years a child has competed a level is not an indicator of much. My oldest will compete the same level for the fourth year in a row, she has been injured so much in the last four years that she has not been able to upgrade, she doesn't win everything by any stretch and she is in the right level for her.

Hope this helps a little, I know gym can be so overwhelming when you start out, but it really can be fun if you realise that after this meet there is always another meet., more importantly that when you go home she is still your little girl and it totally doesn't matter where she placed, it's just a sport not her life.

 

[gymdog]

There are so many level 4s. It's crazy. It goes through a bottleneck at some point and then you see a lot more variations in the awards - most of the girls consistently placing on one or two events, or being more solid AA contenders.

Anyway, at this point, it's too hard to say at all what the gymnast would be like as a L7 or 8. I generally don't try to forecast much more than a season ahead. Beyond that and there's way too much in the way for predictions. If she's already getting 9s in L4 and can get the L5 skills adequately, there's no automatic reason she should repeat the level (assuming she has the maturity and desire to do L5).

Just reassure her she's improving and focus on non-score indicators (didn't fall, ran faster, etc). Her goals should not be based on scoring, which varies week to week and is out of the gymnast's control.

 

[gym law mom]

My gymmie never even competed L4 because that gym didn't have teams below L5. If I had based her future on her first few L5 meets, she would still be doing L5. Here she is 4 yrs later training for L9. So many of the girls who had higher scores, higher placements are gone from the sport---we'll never know how they would have done if they had stayed.

I don't get the coach telling her she won't let her go to states. Every state sets their own qualifying score and here for L4, its a 34 AA. I'll bet your dd has already hit her state qualifying score(check your state USAG site for required score) or has come very close. Its odd for a coach to say, she will definitely move your dd up for next year, but won't let her to go to the state meet this year.

BTW--Your dd is doing quite well as a new and young L4. Don't look down the road farther than the next meet. All those scores are simply how the judges saw her routines on a given day.

 

[Gymnasticsgirl521]

I would talk to her coach and have her explain things a bit better to you. So you have the bigger picture. If it is any help see if they will do some privates to help your DD obtain her goals. I know each of our girls have to achieve a 33AA for our gym to allow them to go to states. Level 4 is the largest group of kids just because it is the beginning. Sounds like your DD is off to a great start. Also there are MANY reasons for having a gymnast repeat a level each gym has their resasons. Communication is the key to figuring it all out.

 

[Pogo]

Compulsory not really an indicator of optional success

Your specific question was how Level 4 success or lack thereof correlates to success at Level 6 and 7. I will broaden this to state that success a compulsory has little correlation to success as an optional. There are many reasons for this. Sometimes kids come to gymnastics with more coordination at the beginning (either natural or taught). Sometimes kids are better at refining skills (compulsory success) rather than getting new skills (optional success). Sometimes kids are early in taking and following direction, which really helps with compulsory. Sometimes the compulsory skill set fits some gymnasts better than others.

Once you progress to optional, everything changes. The gymnast and coach/choreographer can and will design routines to showcase the gymnast's strengths (and avoid weaknesses).

Also, unless your gymmie is really young, sometime before Level 10, her body will change. Some can adapt to their changing bodies. Some can't.

Gymnastics really is a marathon. Those who focus on long term goals and happiness will prevail over those who focus on short-term success. I have seen dozens of really good Level 4s and 5s drop out of the sport. My dd was a terrible Level 5 and only a so-so Level 6. She is now a first-team All-American.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

try not to stress about it, I would talk to the coach, as others have said about how to qualify for States and why he/she feels that won't happen. Our State requires a 31AA for L4 states, our HC requires a 33AA. Your DD's coach would be your best resource.

Not sure about the not repeating L4, I think that decision will really depend on the gymnast. I am assuming that my DD will repeat L4. Maybe not, but likely.

Good luck. She'll be fine.

 

[mariposa]

From what you have posted, I think she is doing great for being a) so young b) not having a long time training for competition c) being her first meet season. For most kids, it takes time to get consistent, etc. As long as she is happy and having fun, progressing happily, I wouldn't be concerned.

So many factors contribute to how far a child gets in gymnastics, it is impossible to know what will happen in the future. As others have said, how a child does in one level doesn't always correlate with how they will do in another, especially from compulsory to optionals.

If I recall, her first meet she scored higher than my DD had scored after competing in 8 meets. My DD JUST got her first 9, is still getting mid-high 8s and just hit her highest AA which was a high 34. I am thrilled.

She also changed gyms, which can be hard learning to do things a new way, etc.

You posted about having a fall on an event too, and that her score was lower. Consistency really does take time. A 9 on floor is a great thing and I remember she got a 9 on vault right at her first meet? That is pretty awesome!

My advice to you would be to relax and let your daughter have fun doing what she obviously loves to do. She REALLY IS having a good season so far from what you have posted. As you have said, she is competing against girls with more experience and that is hard, but part of gymnastics.

As for her, I would highlight the positives, how far she has come in so little time. Tell her about my daughter, she got a 27AA first meet (last October) and after 10 meets, JUST hit what your DD hit at her first meet. She still loves gymnastics and still keeps going. She is happy and that is what matters. She has just taken the slow lane. LOL.

Hang in there, mama.

 

[cathiann]

Both my girls stunk at Compulsory level--okay, maybe not "stunk" but really didn't do that great! Our 5s don't even do places here, and the 4s don't get scores flashed! Yet, my girls all moved up after a year at each level, because they had all their skills--and both did MUCH better as level 7s. Our Optional HC has said he sees very little correlation between being great at compulsory level and doing well at optional level. He isn't a fan of pushing to do well early--he works towards the higher level skills, which may not translate well into high scores at the compulsory level.

 

[cher062]

Please, take a swing...bc deep down inside I'm KNOW I'm probably being unreasonable BUT I HAVE to ask.

For those that haven't already read my 1000 questions she's a young seven, level 4 USAG.
First season, 4th meet.

In everyone's experience, how much does how they do in level 4 weigh on how they end up doing up to maybe level 6 or 7. I'm not sure if that makes sense.

#1 She is continuing to enjoy her season. She's becoming a little more competitive now that she has gotten a taste of victory and defeat. LOL
Bottom line, she's happy BUT she wants to do better. I want her to be happy but not sure if she realizes what she's up against ...YET she's the only one that can say how far she wants to go.

I'm looking at her scores and how she's placing in the meets. It's hard to really compare to anyone else because like I mentioned, almost everyone in her division from the other gyms is on their second year level 4. She started training this summer. Her coach hates the idea of any child repeating level 4 unless they are REALLY REALLY not doing well. So she already told me she's moving up to level 5 next year.

She scored her highest on floor today - 9.25 but was blown away by a couple of 9.7's and 9.8's .
Her other scores are low to high 8's pretty much across the board. She has yet to place in the top 3 in ANY event.

Her coach today told her she probably won't go to state. I don't know how state works for level 4's since I believe this is the first year they do placement for 4's (we're division 3). She was bummed and said "I have one more meet to prove to my coach that I CAN make it to state!" My heart broke!!! BC I'm thinking, let's be realistic.

SO, her dad and I just look at her and go "You did your best, you're enjoying what you're doing...you're having some great experiences!" But she wants MORE. AAAACK!

So bottom line, if she loves it, she'll keep going BUT part of me isn't sure how to help her handle the reality that by looking at the numbers..well, it doesn't look like she wants it to look.

So I go back to my question...just bc she's not having a great season as a level 4, does this pretty much set up level 5? Would they not be setting her up for failure when all the other girls she will be competing against in her division will have done level 4 twice?

TIA!

Actually what your describing sounds like she is doing really well for a first time comepetitor. she has the right attitued that's for sure. Remember it's just gymnastics. It sounds like your more worried than your DD is. Go with the thought if she makes it and does well then great and if she repeats L4 then she will be extra AWSOME.

Every Gym has their own way of doing things. L4 really is an introductory level and isn't required nor does going from L4 to L5 have an offical mobility score (a score required to move to the next level) Our gym has additional requirements which is not against the rules - for all Levels you have to at least qualify for the sectionals to move up a level AND the coach has to approve the move.

The biggest factor for our gym to move a level is to have a good attitude and Good form.


Here is what USAG has on their site

USAG Mobility Scores

General Information
1. Minimum scores needed to move to the next competitive level.
2. All new gymnasts enter at the USAG Junior Olympic Developmental Level One.
3. Gymnasts cannot skip any of the competitive levels in the age group program. The mobility score must be obtained once at a sanctioned USAG competition. When the mobility score is attained the gymnast does not have to move up to the next competitive level.
4. It is the Coaches decision on when the gymnast moves to the next level.
5. No mandate scores are permitted at any levels
6. Gymnasts may compete in a maximum of two (2) State meets per competitive year (one per season), either at the same or higher level
USAG Mobility ScoresGoing fromTo

Level 4 to Level 5 NONE
Level 5 to Level 6 31.00AA
Level 6 to Level 7 31.00AA
Level 7 to Level 8 31.00AA
Level 8 to Level 9 34.00AA
Level 9 to Level 10 & Elite 34.00AA
Regional Championship or East / West meet participants qualify to enter Reg'l Elite Meet without petition Level 10 Regional Elite level 10 or elite*Regional or National meet participants qualify to directly enter Reg'l Elite meet without petition.

 

[cher062]

Firstly how well a child does in L4 is not an indicator of how well they will do in anything gymnastics or otherwise! Many gyms do not even compete L4 as it is not required by USAG. Statistically speaking the number of girls that compete L4 is huge in comparison to the number of girls who make it to optionals. Tons of girls quit for so many reasons. I seem to remember that by L6 over 75% of girls were no longer in the sport.

.

I so agree with this. As I look at the girls who are at my DD L7 team now my DD is the only one on the team that was a L4 with my DD at this gym. All the other girls came from other gyms at later levels. My DD started with 15 girls at L4 and none of the others do gymnastics anymore. some for financial reason some because they found other interests they liked better. 2 of the girls went from our pre-team right to L5 and skipped L4 all together. as they move up in the levels gymnasts start to drop like flies. the higher you go the fewer keep with it.

 

[canadiangymmom]

Chiming in, in spite of no experience with compulsarys. Just looking at it as a low level vs high level, I've seen almost no corrolation in scores from early on to later in the game.

The occassional young level 3 or 4 will do well, right on through, but for the most part, there is a noticable improvement as they progress. I think there are a couple of factors at play. 1) The kids develop more body control/spatial awareness/co ordination as they grow. and 2) increased training time along with a better understanding of expectations etc.

You don't need a slap! All you need is to relax and get comfortable for the long road ahead! Let your daughter enjoy herself in her sport and help her to understand that she can't control anything outside of herself.

When Bean was new to competition, she competed in a group of 8 & 9 year olds. I thought it was so wrong!! Being a late October birthday girl, she was almost 2 years younger than some of the other competitors! A more seasoned gym mom let me know that it was futile to fret. Assuming the kids are in the level best suited for them, there shouldn't be any advantage for the older kids, or the ones who've been training longer, or spent 2 years in a level. She reminded me that the winner would be the one with the best performance on the competition day, and she was right. She also pointed out to me that one day it would be Bean's turn to be the older one in an age division, so it evens itself out.

I'm starting to ramble here, lol, so I'll stop! Your little one sounds like she's doing quite well, and as long as she continues to love the sport, she'll continue to improve! She also sounds driven to succeed, if scores are a factor to her, and the drive will help her achieve her goals.

Good luck to her in her next competition

 

[socko]

My daughter was an abysmal compulsory but she was at a rec gym at the time. She's done quite well as an optional...made the TOPS team, has gone to JO Nationals multiple times so don't despair about Level 4!! It's true what other posters have said that the crowd thins out as you go up the Levels.

 

[gymdog]

Gymnastics really is a marathon. Those who focus on long term goals and happiness will prevail over those who focus on short-term success. I have seen dozens of really good Level 4s and 5s drop out of the sport. My dd was a terrible Level 5 and only a so-so Level 6. She is now a first-team All-American.

I was a pretty bad level 5 and only a so-so 6. The first thing I actually won first place on was floor at L6 states. I'd never won anything before then. Compulsories was a huge learning curve for me, coming from a rec gym with L6 skills but little work doing actual routines. For some reason I could barely make it through the L6 bar routine, probably in large part because no one ever really taught me a tap swing until after L6 when the L7 coach realized I was just randomly swinging along with no discernible technique. I won many optional bar events.

 

[NotAMom]

Don't worry about scores or placement as L4.

All the seasoned gymnasts/parents know that that is so the truth but that is far from reality. New Level 4s (or whatever the first competing level is at the gym) and their parents are typically so pumped full of ego that they think they are formidable. Then, years and level or two later reality hits, hence the burn out, loss of interest and let down.

It's best to keep the spirit high. Keep learning and throwing those skills (and you keep paying those bills). Even without mentioning L8 and above, just by merely reaching L7 she has risen above probably 75% (or whatever that number is) of all competive gymnasts. And, barring no long term injury, if she is staying with the sport, she will get there one day. She might even top that with outstanding scores.

BTW, on the states situation, why was it that she won't be going? Go find out. In our state, 28AA is the cut off and it's a team cup. It's low for a reason (hardly anyone not make it). It's mainly for the experience and the team spirit. At some of the L4 states, they don't even post/flash the scores (only the coaches get them). Unless your state has a high qualifying score, I would be nervous about what's ahead at your gym.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Sorry to hijack... just had to throw in a L4 story. When my DD did L4, she was such a powerful tumbler that she always finished her floor routine before the music was over, LOL!!!! So she would add her own moves to fill in the time!!! I love to watch those vids!!! She always got a huge laugh & group smile from the crowd!!!! Yeah her scores suffered...but there was no denying her talent, ability or LOVE of the sport! She learned to control her power better & as a L5 was states AA champ(floor, vault & bars too). Also, a state champ as L6 & L7 . My point to this this story...enjoy EVERY moment of L4. B/c as long as your DD is enjoying herself, that's what matters in the long run! Do what you love...it should be everyone's motto.

 

[Billy]

I am not through this journey by any means but I, too, have heard all the information you're being given here that success (or not) at any one level has very little bearing on future levels. Success in this sport really is a very individual thing. There doesn't seem to be any pattern, no precedent, no frame of reference. Every kid, and every path is different. There are many roads to Oz.