WAG a new organization?? NGA

[Sk8ermaiden]

Aren't all their levels optional levels, or did I hallucinate that? Why would they need to copy Xcel too?

 

[amiandjim]

Aren't all their levels optional levels, or did I hallucinate that? Why would they need to copy Xcel too?

You are correct. But, they added the “Xcel” levels because some gyms said they didn’t want to have to tell their older Xcel girls that may be silver or gold that that are now a level 3-4. They thought it would be demoralizing to them?

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

Hmm. But I mean... they are. My kid in Gold was most definitely like a 3/4.

Adding a whole branch because you want to keep a few gyms happy rather than because it's what fits with your long term goals seems short sighted. Unless they're going to put an hours cap on their version of Xcel to make it a real alternative program, then having two optionals programs seems dumb.

I am one of those people who would like USAG to become defunct - or at least less relevant. But this organization just seems poorly thought out. Like instead of careful thought and planning, they're throwing it together as they go. Also, as a bunch of people mentioned, my problem with USAG isn't the levels, skills, meets - it's the culture and NGA hasn't said much on that that I can find?

 

[TumbleTimes4]

It was basically an informational session for coaches (although anyone could join), and they talked about their structure, levels (they are adding gold, platinum, and diamond FYI), the season, etc....

I thought this was supposed to be a simpler format and all optional anyway? That just makes even more complex and essentially just looks like they have straight out copied USAG. How is this supposed to be simpler?

 

[amiandjim]

Here is what bothers me, if I’m being honest. USAG is bad, right? But, former USAG employees are starting this to compete. Ok, except they will go to the same meets. And enroll in both. Yet, those meets will be produced by the founder of this group. And, they are super emphasizing the virtual meet platform...which I get because of Covid. But, again, that platform is again run by the founder of this group! So.....it just looks an awful lot like a money making opportunity, not an actual attempt to improve things? Maybe I’m off base, but that’s where I am.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

lso, as a bunch of people mentioned, my problem with USAG isn't the levels, skills, meets - it's the culture and NGA hasn't said much on that that I can find?

the fact that posting pictures of medals and lowering the age requirement for the upper levels before even releasing anything on athlete safety or board members IMO is very telling of the priorities...$$$. Pretty medals and allowing 9 year olds to compete level 10 does nothing to change the culture, just keeps the status quo.

 

[raenndrops]

You are correct. But, they added the “Xcel” levels because some gyms said they didn’t want to have to tell their older Xcel girls that may be silver or gold that that are now a level 3-4. They thought it would be demoralizing to them?

Their Gold, Platinum, and Diamond are slightly different that Xcel ... Diamond is 4 A & 4B instead of 5A and 2 B is a big one. They also placed Gold between 4 & 5, Platinum between 6 & 7, and Diamond after L8 ... but they do have SOME slightly easier requirements than their numbered level counterparts.
I kinda like their Platinum (YG does Xcel Platinum and, if switched to, would have been probably a L6 before they added Platinum). She wouldn't have liked the vault for L6. Platinum is allowed to do any vault on the L8 vault chart, so she could do her 1/2-1/2. On bars, she wouldn't have a lower SV for missing her long hang kip in case it goes on vacation before bars, lol. She could just do her long hang pullover to do the high bar cast above horizontal.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Their Gold, Platinum, and Diamond are slightly different that Xcel ... Diamond is 4 A & 4B instead of 5A and 2 B is a big one. They also placed Gold between 4 & 5, Platinum between 6 & 7, and Diamond after L8 ... but they do have SOME slightly easier requirements than their numbered level counterparts.
I kinda like their Platinum (YG does Xcel Platinum and, if switched to, would have been probably a L6 before they added Platinum). She wouldn't have liked the vault for L6. Platinum is allowed to do any vault on the L8 vault chart, so she could do her 1/2-1/2. On bars, she wouldn't have a lower SV for missing her long hang kip in case it goes on vacation before bars, lol. She could just do her long hang pullover to do the high bar cast above horizontal.

I don’t understand why they’re using USAG names. If they want to start an alternative program, then they should make it their own. It doesn’t make sense to use the same level names, Xcel names, etc., but then claim it’s different. I’m thinking USAG may copyright their level names, especially for Xcel.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I don’t understand why they’re using USAG names. If they want to start an alternative program, then they should make it their own. It doesn’t make sense to use the same level names, Xcel names, etc., but then claim it’s different. I’m thinking USAG may copyright their level names, especially for Xcel.

IGC had the ”metal” levels first.

 

[raenndrops]

I don’t understand why they’re using USAG names. If they want to start an alternative program, then they should make it their own. It doesn’t make sense to use the same level names, Xcel names, etc., but then claim it’s different. I’m thinking USAG may copyright their level names, especially for Xcel.

But USAIGC had a Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum before Xcel did. I know they used to have a "Bronze Diamond" that is now just Diamond (I don't know what year Bronze Diamond was introduced though). When My girls were doing privates for XG and XP/L6, the coach kept getting confused because the gym she worked at competed USAG and USAIGC (pre-Xcel), so she kept thinking that YG needed skills for IGC Gold (roughly L8ish) when she needed Xcel Gold skills.
So how can USAG copyright them?
And how do you copyright the word Level and a number??? Levels with numbers are used in all types of industries. I included one for hair bleaching as an example.

 

[raenndrops]

IGC had the ”metal” levels first.

Lol, I was working on that and didn't see your post before I hit Post Reply.

 

[3rd_time_around]

But USAIGC had a Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum before Xcel did. I know they used to have a "Bronze Diamond" that is now just Diamond (I don't know what year Bronze Diamond was introduced though). When My girls were doing privates for XG and XP/L6, the coach kept getting confused because the gym she worked at competed USAG and USAIGC (pre-Xcel), so she kept thinking that YG needed skills for IGC Gold (roughly L8ish) when she needed Xcel Gold skills.
So how can USAG copyright them?
And how do you copyright the word Level and a number??? Levels with numbers are used in all types of industries. I included one for hair bleaching as an example.

I mean their Xcel names. If the IOC can copyright “Olympic,” then USAG can surely copyright their Xcel program. They also have all their materials copyrighted already.

 

[raenndrops]

I mean their Xcel names. If the IOC can copyright “Olympic,” then USAG can surely copyright their Xcel program. They also have all their materials copyrighted already.

But the Xcel Names aren't unique to them. USAIGC had most (if not all) of them first. How could they copyright them.

And the ACT uses some of these levels for their National Career Readiness Certificate (NCRC):
NCRCs are awarded at the Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze levels in the following manner:
Platinum is achieved by earning a level score of 6 or higher on all three tests.
Gold is achieved by earning a level score of 5 or higher on all three tests.
Silver is achieved by earning a level score of 4 or higher on all three tests.
Bronze is achieved by earning a level score of 3 or higher on all three tests.

Seems it would be difficult to copyright something that is so commonplace.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I got an email today from them, and they’re having a drawing for a free full-sized beam for new clubs that join in Aug. They are also offering large discounts on equipment rentals for meets and other services upon becoming a club member.

I think it’s the first email I’ve seen, and it offers no explanation of their organization or even who they are, just an ad for a beam and discounts if they join this month. I thought It was an advertisement for a meet that our gym attends every year.

 

[kendo348]

Wow. All they’ve done so far is treat this like they think they’re opening a giant Instagram account. It’s all vanity, superficial priorities, buying followers... This is not supposed to be some sort of contest, and the fact that they can’t even hide their view of it as such makes me nauseous. Choosing a system to protect and support child athletes is not a matter to be decided based on prizes.

It should go without saying that if and when a new organization hits the nail on the head, their priorities will speak for themselves and they won’t have to bribe clubs to join.

 

[flippin out]

just here shaking my head over how this organization is rolling out and what tactics they are taking. I agree with what @kendo348 said 100%.

 

[cogymmom2dd]

They have added more information to the website, and I am not at all impressed. They are planning to have regionals and then Atlantic/Pacific championships all the way down to level 3. To me, that is exactly the opposite of what a new organization should be doing.

USAG has regional championships for XCEL silver and up. My DD1 did XCEL silver before L3 and was a regional qualifier. So, USAG as a governing body does have regional championships for younger athletes.
AAU has regional and national meets and they are FUN! DD2 went to AAU nationals last year at Disney and was on cloud 9. It was so much fun.
I guess that I should be thankful to be at a gym where all meets are optional. They send us a list of meet dates and locations. We sign them up for each meet individually in-season and if they aren’t on the roster for a certain meet, they don’t get registered, they don’t compete, and we don’t get that fee deducted from our expense account.
Regionals and nationals are all extra and not mandatory, but out experience has been that it’s great for team bonding. We spent a day at magic kingdom with our gym families. The kids had blast and it will be a top childhood memory for our kids.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

No, that is left up to individual regions. I don't think USAG mandates any regionals below level 8 and you will see that it varies region to region on what regionals are offered, and then below that, what state meets are offered. My region, region 3, has regionals for Xcel Gold-Diamond, and levels 7+. But USAG does not require/offer Xcel state or regional championships AT ALL. Those are determined by the region and state, which is why the differ wildly across the US.

 

[cogymmom2dd]

No, that is left up to individual regions. I don't think USAG mandates any regionals below level 8 and you will see that it varies region to region on what regionals are offered, and then below that, what state meets are offered. My region, region 3, has regionals for Xcel Gold-Diamond, and levels 7+. But USAG does not require/offer Xcel state or regional championships AT ALL. Those are determined by the region and state, which is why the differ wildly across the US.

Region 5 here and we have state meets for all levels JO/XCEL and regionals for high scoring qualifiers of XCEL levels silver and up and L6-10.
I’m just saying that maybe this new governing body is advertising this but making it up to each individual region just like USAG does. Just playing devil’s advocate, I am neither in support of or against the new governing body.

 

[amiandjim]

They are having “Atlantic and Pacific” championships for levels 3-7. That’s not leaving it up to each region. It’s having “half nationals” for those levels. I’m sorry, but it’s a money grab to me.