Acceptable level eight vault?

[Deleted member D3987]

hey coachtodd, spot on again. me thinks the op is a very young coach. AND the overwhelming vault being thrown at level 8 is a front handspring. period.

 

[B&M's mom]

I think that most Level 8s compete either a Tsuk or a Yurchenko. Not the easiest to master as my daughter proved last year. She never totally got a Yurchenko despite many hours of trying. She actually competed a front handspring the entire season, including Regionals. She got good scores on it, in fact, higher than her teammate that was trying to do a Yurchenko. But it did affect her AA score.

Thankfully, this season, as a Level 9 she's mastered a Tsuk and is cleaning up her Yurchenko.

Good luck!

 

[coachmolly]

ITo be honest, it is slightly embarrassing to have level 8's competing front handsprings. That is a level 5 vault, though very important, which is why it is used for so long.

Maybe I'm reading this a different way than you intended, but it just is not sitting well with me. Allowing an athlete who works hard, has the needed skills on another event, and can compete a respectable handspring vault is nothing to be embarrassed about. I'd feel much more "embarrassed" about having a kid who scored 37s as a level 7 and who had every other level 8 skill repeat level 7 and blow other kids out of the water all in the name of protecting my pride. I'd be "embarrassed" if I forced a kid to chuck a vault that resulted in gasps from parents, judges, and other coaches and was an injury waiting to happen. It's not like these level 8s competing fhs vaults compete them like level 5s, I think some level of mastery of the vault is implied if the kid has made it to level 8.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

spot on coachmolly ^^^ and again B&M'sMOM, MOST level 8's perform front handsprings. this means in the whole of the UNITED STATES. not in 1 state.

and the most crashed vaults at level 8's are yurchenkos. figure it out from there.

 

[chalkbowl]

Was just watching a level 8 video on youtube that reminded me of this thread. She took 1st AA in level 8 even with a FHS vault

Crossroads Classic 2012 - YouTube

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and if anyone is interested, her coach is Mickey Or who also coached Vanessa Zamarippa who is now at UCLA.

 

[barney66]

This is exactly what I don't understand. It is perfectly within reason for a coach to not allow level 8's to compete without a vault that starts from a 10. But then WHY DO YOU MOVE GIRLS UP TO LEVEL 8 THAT DON"T HAVE THIS VAULT??!!! Makes no sense.

BINGO,, You have just won the $64,000 question!!! A lot of gyms play the numbers game wanting kids a certain levels even if they do no0t have a skill boggles the mind

 

[coachmolly]

But a coach that ALLOWED a level 8 to compete a level 5 vault CERTAINLY could not teach a kid to vault like this, it's simply preposterous :
[video=youtube;vpUBw5gs2qI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpUBw5gs2qI[/video]
Sarcasm aside, everyone should go watch and be amazed by that vault. It makes it very clear that there are coaches with level 8s vaulting front handsprings who are pretty darn exceptional when it comes to coaching vault.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

This is exactly what I don't understand. It is perfectly within reason for a coach to not allow level 8's to compete without a vault that starts from a 10. But then WHY DO YOU MOVE GIRLS UP TO LEVEL 8 THAT DON"T HAVE THIS VAULT??!!! Makes no sense.

This is the rule at our gym. Many think our coach may be too "strict" with his skill requirements, but it is what it is...you accept it as part of being on his team. If you don't have a flipping vault, you stay at Level 7. If you can't get your pirouette on bars, you stay at 7. If you can't do certain 9 skills, you stay at 8. Etc. This is done on an individual basis, which to me, is different from someone who says their entire level 8 cannot do a tsuk.

 

[2gymmies]

I've seen a few good front handsprings beat some bad/scary tsuks and yurchenkos. If a front handspring is truly "unacceptable" at level 8 then why does it start out of a 9. There are 2 vaults listed that start out of a 7. If "they" (meaning whoever decides start values) wanted to deter front handsprings, I would think they would make the start value even lower. Also, why is only a flipping vault acceptable - what about twisting vaults?! I know they aren't as progressive, but are they seen as acceptable? It seems like a coach's decision to allow whatever they want, but I bet there are level 10s out there not starting out of 10 (I've seen plenty layout yurchenkos at Level 10). The coach can do what he or she wants but I can definitely see both sides...

 

[wandrewsjr]

This is exactly what I don't understand. It is perfectly within reason for a coach to not allow level 8's to compete without a vault that starts from a 10. But then WHY DO YOU MOVE GIRLS UP TO LEVEL 8 THAT DON"T HAVE THIS VAULT??!!! Makes no sense.

I think my response is being misinterpreted. I don't think there is anything wrong with competing a handspring at level 8. It is more common than not at my gym that first year level 8's compete the handspring, working toward getting their flipping vault their second year of 8(if they repeat). But also think it is reasonable for a coach to set the standard at THEIR gym that a flipping vault is required for level 8. What I don't understand about the orginal poster's situation is moving girls up to level 8 who don't have a flipping vault if that is your standard for getting to compete vault at level 8.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

exactly ^^^ don't tell them what the standard is and then punish them for not meeting the standard. yikes!

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

I think my response is being misinterpreted. I don't think there is anything wrong with competing a handspring at level 8. It is more common than not at my gym that first year level 8's compete the handspring, working toward getting their flipping vault their second year of 8(if they repeat). But also think it is reasonable for a coach to set the standard at THEIR gym that a flipping vault is required for level 8. What I don't understand about the orginal poster's situation is moving girls up to level 8 who don't have a flipping vault if that is your standard for getting to compete vault at level 8.

Not sure if you were referring to my response, but I was only responding to the part about not moving them up. Our kids know the expectations. If the OP's coach did not have a requirement set, then it's not fair to throw it in during meet season.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I just have to add my two cents' worth here. I do know this gym so I may have a bit more perspective here. Although, remember, my DD quit gymnastics this past September. This IS a new coach. He was brought it right after my DD quit. The girls had all competed successfully at L7, may first place/second place finishes at States. The girls had been working summer training to move up to L8 and they were all progressing nicely. All of them had their giants, were working on the pirouettes, connections on beam and tsuk vaults into the pit. Everyone was looking forward to the new competition season. The rules were in place, expectations had been met and then things changed.

This is a coach who HAS coached high level gymnasts. He was brought in as the new head coach and immediately made a lot of changes. Bottom line is that change is hard. All of the girls, except 1, were/are first year L8's.... so my own personal thought is that they should've been allowed to compete that FHS vault at their first meet in December, but they weren't. They did compete tsuk vaults at their second meet in January, but most really stumbled/fell on their landings... but they did it. They have all since qualified to the L8 state meet.

 

[tecgym]

Plus, I am assuming that this coach was brought in to replace an "old coach" who maybe left... and that is hard for kids too.... losing someone who maybe they really liked and who had got them pretty far. Seems unfair to make big changes when maybe they were already having a hard time adjusting