Bothered, clarity please!

[Linsul]

I have issues that revolve around both a class and a coworker. Me and this person have to coach a high level class together. Naturally there is a more advanced group within the group, and they get split by ability. 4 of the 6 more advanced kids in the group come to my class at another time in the week. They wanted to add a class of mine, the co-coaching one was the only option for their schedules. These are kids I've coached for over a year and a half. I'm big on conditioning, flexibility, and fundamentals and since they work hard, their skills show it. They are working level 4-6 skills

The other group has a good skill base, but are stuck. About level 4. They are young and frankly more there for fun and happy to stop once they run out of natural ability. This would be fine, but they also want more skills. I'm sure their parents do too. When I condition them lightly, they call it 'torture'. Drills on any event are 'boring'. If they ask a question, they talk over the answer. When I point out the fallacy of thinking the way they do, in my nicest most friendly terms and voice, they start crying or get teary. When I work old skills with them they're ok, until they see the other group doing new skills. Basically they feel competitive with the other group, but are unwilling to do what that group did to get to where they are. They want to be spotted through difficult skills, not drill, and not do their stations because they say they don't understand. This is after I explain the stations and ask them if they have questions. Then I get nothing done with the gymnast I'm spotting. They all run up and want to ask questions that frankly are just a distraction created to get out of doing something 'hard'. I know the difference by now! We waste a lot of time re-learning weekly expectations.

My first problem is I never coach the first group because the other coach is always hurt. Until it's time to spot back tucks. I didn't sweat it until the parents started asking me why, since they moved to a class that I supposedly coach. The class is supposed to be exposure to both coaches and whatnot, and it's not happening. When I bring it up, I get a random health reason the other coach can't spot the less advanced group. Back, shoulder, headache, etc.

My second problem is, the coach suggested we just run 2 separate classes for the 2 groups. Since it's essentially what we're doing now, it solves nothing. I also am 99% sure which group I'd be coaching, and I can think of some parents that would not be pleased. I honestly don't have a problem coaching the 2nd group, and think autonomy would help them greatly. I think the kids would though. They are 9-11 and know I coach the other girls separately. The things they say make me 100% sure they think I'm holding it out on them since the other group is farther along. Tinges of resentment come out when I explain to them that spotting a hard skill they refuse to drill for does them no good. It's there, and could impact the division of classes in a way that they try to avoid me!

Sorry for the book. As I said, I need clarity.

 

[gymdog]

Hmm. I understand why you wouldn't want to involve the owner because then it would be awkward with the coworker, etc. But I think her suggesting two classes kind of makes a natural opening for: "that's an interesting idea, we'll have to schedule a meeting with [class program director]."

If you end up with the second group then it sounds like you could possibly kind of restructure them, but the bigger concern seems to be that the first group will lose out because they are working on skills the other coach apparently can't spot. And that's going to have to be addressed, as awkward as it is. I think it's better for it to go through the program director, if possible. It wouldn't be fair to have two separate classes and then be calling you out of your class to spot certain skills, and it doesn't make sense for her to always have the more advanced girls because of back or shoulder aches that prevent spotting, if she's going to have to spot even MORE advanced stuff like back tucks.

I think the program director needs to step in and be the one to lay down some guidelines basically.

 

[Linsul]

You're right Gymdog, but the kicker is I think 'can't spot' is some shenanigans. I have seen her spotting back tucks with the first group. Kip drills, squat ons, backhandspring drills, you name it. If I bring up the can't spot thing, which is fair game imo since it's what she told me (for weeks at a time over the course of a year), it will be news to the powers that be. I don't confront the can't spot issue because she is older, and usually names some medical reason in a offhand way. I can't exactly call her a liar about medical conditions, though I get tempted to when I see the spotting happening later in the class. In her mind, there's going to be a perfect division between the groups that doesn't take into account her spotting, the parents of either group, or my strained relationship with the kids in the 2nd group. Even though the kids don't appreciate it, some of the parents are of the 'suck it up and get to work!' mentality.

I'm essentially wondering if I should open this can of worms and risk work drama: 'Hey so and so, you can't spot mill circles or a valdez, but you can spot back tucks and kip drills?' Or let it play out and risk parent/gymnast drama. "I chose this time to work with 'xxx' coach" Or: "That Linsul is a meanie for expecting a station of 3 pull ups, we'd prefer the other coach" Or should I just be brazen and say "I'm taking all the kids in group one that come to my classes during the week, divide the rest however."

The whole situation gets me frustrated. Inconsistencies I can't challenge, parent expectations not being met, talented kids that envy the other group but think a class of 100% spotting should get them results...

*edit* we also don't have a program director at the moment. If I bring this up for resolution, my only option is pretty high up the chain of command.

 

[Linsul]

So after I posted this I got my husbands the corporate warrior take. "Why do you worry about stepping on toes of the feet you should be moonwalking on?" - his words. Well, I'm not going to take that advice but I'm not going to get run over either. I think I've found the most drama free solution.

I think the heart of the issue for me now is I don't think splitting the group down the center (current) ability-wise is smart. It looks contrived, and the kids aren't really SO far ahead that the others won't catch up if they decide to work at it. Mixing them is a constant reminder of what lots of effort can produce.

As far as talking to someone in a decision making role, I'm going to say the above. Of the 4 in group 1 that are from my other classes, I'm going to insist upon having the 2 I know for a fact joined the class to work with me more. I'm going to request not having the 2 in group 2 that burst into tears if I look at them. As much for them as me, I really don't like seeing them leave teary though I feel no guilt. As far as the rest goes, it can get split however and I'll be happy. The kids that come to my class though will hopefully adapt; and have a better chance of doing so if I'm the only authority involved. Or they can try another class with another coach, variety is grand! The can't spot thing wont fly in a mixed group. That coach will be put in a position to reveal their obvious spotting ability, so that takes care of that. More importantly, not my problem!

4am and I'm talking to myself on CB...I was so bummed about the situation I threw myself into a lesson plan for the rest of the week after posting to take my mind off it. It turned into a monster, then I cleaned my bathroom and gave the kitchen a biohazard level scrubbing. I'm glad I hadn't said anything before all my brooding/cleaning therapy! Now I gotta get in there quick and make sure the ability split doesn't happen.

 

[Bobby]

Your co-worker sounds like a bit of a shirker (we call them bludgers).
It would be better coming from higher up than you - but failing that maybe you can ask her straight up for a list of skills she can't spot that you can keep for future reference "so you don't keep forgetting" or so you "don't have to keep bothering her to ask".
Then next time she weasels out of that group, just whip out the list and say "gosh sorry I forgot that one - oh it's not on the list - oh a headache - no I uderstand that's fine". She can only do that once or twice without looking a complete fool. And don't forget to run over to interrupt if she tries to spot that skill with the girls she wants to work with "no - I promised I wouldn't let you hurt yourself".
Or you could be even cheekier and give suggestions on techniques of spotting that wouldn't pull that muscle (etc) that you'd be happy to share ...

 

[Aussie_coach]

I agree that it might be wise to mix up the ability levels when you split the class. This may help avoid some of the parent drama, parents don't understand gymnastics the way the coaches do and can't be blamed for their incorrect assumptions. Also it may help if the more dedicated ones are mixed in with the less dedicated ones as a positive influence.

Are there things you could do to make the drills and conditioning more exciting, have competitions to see who can do the most pull ups, have a world records board in the gym and have them try to set and break the records for various conditioning exercises. Divide the groups into teams and give points for drills completed well. If they aren't highly dedicated gymnasts these little motivations may help.

As for insisting on being spotted for certain skills before they are ready set minimum guidelines for conditioning and drills for each skill. EG if they want to work kips they need X number of leg lifts in a row, X number of glide swings X bar skills etc. Then its not you telling them they aren't allowed to do the skills its the guidelines and the only solution is to work on the drills.

 

[CoachTodd]

I've seen similar issues in the past. I like to randomly group the kids at times just to keep them on their toes. It is also very beneficial to see which kids work harder in which groups. I have a few mid to upper level girls that I'll put in a higher level group simply due to the fact that no one in that group will get distracted by her and she'll shut up and work.

 

[nevertooold]

If it's not already a "done deal" to split the class I would recommend the following alternative.

Divide events with the other instructor and rotate the kids. She could choose events or areas that she can spot or doesn't need to spot as much, and you take the other events and rotate the kids through.

At those ages it's good for the girls to have exposure to both instructors and maybe you and the co-worker can come to agreement on some areas. Would the other instructor be willing to agree to include one strength station/drill at every event, or 10 min. drills/cond. at each event, so that the girls see you both value conditioning and drills.

It is really detrimental to your whole gym and programs if the instructors are not on the same page, and working toward the same goals. You may have to take the high road and try to find some common grounds with the other instructor for the betterment of your program. Keep the conversation about making changes to make the class more effective for ALL the students in the class.

 

[gymnut1]

I hope you have managed to split them now. Mixing them sounds a good solution for the moment. I am always surprised when a child is off on holiday how the dynamics of a group can change. It often takes me by surprise as tensions/ issues sometimes disappear when someone well behaved is off. Sometimes kids just need a chance to step up and sometimes they are monkeys in disguise!

The co worker thing is horrid. Really annoying and must wind you up no end. Losing this problem will be the biggest positive. Split the groups and turn your back to her. Any spotting problems she will have to sort out with her employer. Some coaches coach to a very high level with a minimum of spotting or shaping. I am a very hands on coach with shaping which is very physical but I coach little ones and it is vital. I do relatively little spotting because the basic skills they are learning don't require it.

I really feel for you and I hope it goes well. Once you have 'your' group it might be worth speaking to the 2nd group children's parents to explain drills, conditioning etc and how they affect aquiring skills. Just to get them on the same page as the kids you already have.

 

[coachmolly]

This sounds like a group I'm working with at my gym!
I was going to suggest something similar to what nevertooold did, splitting events and rotating the kids. But your solution is a good one as well. It sounds like this class really needs some consistency of coaching and expectations. Without it, you are just going to continue banging your head into a wall.

 

[gymdog]

So after I posted this I got my husbands the corporate warrior take. "Why do you worry about stepping on toes of the feet you should be moonwalking on?" - his words. Well, I'm not going to take that advice but I'm not going to get run over either. I think I've found the most drama free solution.

Yeah, it's hard for people to understand the dynamics of a gymnastics gym sometimes. There's rarely much accountability because a lot of programs can't afford to lose coaches. My general feeling is that unless someone is doing something really egregious, I have little to no recourse. There might be a "conversation" about it, but change is hard. I had a coach growing up who was literally calling little girls names (that this board wouldn't even allow me to use), making odd comments, pitting people against each other, ignoring some in favor of others, etc, etc who was finally fired for a contract issue (unrelated to his coaching tactics). That pretty much sums up my feelings about how we have to tiptoe around everything. Some gyms are better than others, I've worked in a gym with a strong performance review, etc system, it's great, but realistically I've seen even more programs where it's kind of touch and go.

I'm in somewhat of a similar situation sometimes but it's team levels and various division of them. Not quite as obvious, but I don't know. Sometimes I wish I could just be assigned a group, any group. But at this point I'm not staying in the area much longer so I'm kind of just trying to keep working and not cause any drama or anything.

 

[Linsul]

Thanks for the replies, it was like a checklist of sanity lol! I needed a good dose of logic, so thanks!

Happyfacetwin- I laughed, those were some good subversive tactic suggestions!

Aussie_Coach- I totally agree, and it's how I run classes that are my own! Explaining the how/why to the kids in my classes has really brought out the best in them. Within my own classes I have variation of ability, but I always coach to the highest level in the class, and encourage everyone to keep trying, set attainable goals, praise their effort, etc. I also agree on your split the class thoughts. If this was a team, I'd be 100% behind ability splitting, since it's rec, not so much.

Nevertooold- It's a fabulous idea, and I tried it. Explaining why it didn't work is impossible while maintaining anonymity.

Gymnut1- Yes, cutting the cord is something I'm very much looking forward to. I agree spotting is imperative for beginners through compulsory, I'm very hands on. You just have to be, there's no way around it. I also drill drill drill because I'm small and can't chuck skills with bad technique 500 times to teach it. I spot skills often when drilling to see where the kids are at, if they're close I'll spot a bunch more. If the skill is still very far off more drills/explanation/conditioning. The way I coach I have to have a million drills up my sleeve, so I'm constantly looking for new ones!

Coachmolly- banging my head up against a wall lol! I had a much more descriptive activity on my facebook status. As I was standing there, unable to help the gymnast I was working with because 3 were running up to me asking questions, and 2 in tears, I swear I had an out of body experience. Sigh.

Gymdog- exactly! Politics...not my strong suit AT ALL! The situation festered because the coach was sort of my on the job trainer for the first month or so. Being new I just did as I was told. Also I didn't know how much seniority was valued at first, so I just hung on and did my best with my classes. I fought for autonomy on the grounds of my excellent attendance and won for every class but this one. Now that splitting the class is the other coaches idea it's probably going to happen, it puts us in agreement.

I for sure always look for the least dramatic, most 'me' centered reasoning for solutions to iffy situations just to avoid angering people. I don't bring up issues, but I won't lie if I'm asked by the owner/HC. They are very hands on though, so we don't generally have problems, and the ones we have are solved fairly quickly. Thinking about this now, whatever happens happens. I can think of a bunch of times working with someone has been awesome and effortless, so I know I can do it. Makes me feel better for it not happening in this case.