Parents Catching up by competing level 9 skills in level 8?

[Smiley007]

My 13 yr. old DD decided she wanted to try for a D1 scholarship after competing her first year in L7 this past spring. Her education is more important than gymnastics so while she wants to excel at both, she will be fine if she doesn't hit her gymnastics goal. She knows all of her L8 skills and has been working on L9 skills. One of her frustrations is losing skills she has acquired before the season starts because she has had to focus on the competing level skills in order to continue scoring well. The current plan is to continue training the L9 skills and compete the L9 skills as a level 8 in 2016, and only move up to L9 if her L9 skills allow her to be competitive in L9. Is this a good plan, or does anyone have other ideas to consider? Our coaches have NEVER had a gymnast do only 1 year of L9, so if she doesn't try something like this, then she wouldn't be a level 10 until she is a HS junior (too late for a D1 school to be interested in her unless, of course, she does amazingly well at JO Nationals her junior year). Thanks for any insight you might have for this situation.

 

[htimcj]

I don't know about level 9 skills in level 8. I am not sure how many level 9 skills are actually allowed in level 8 routines but my DD plans on repeating level 7 again ( injury last year meant she only competed twice last year) but doing basically level 8 routines in everything but bars. HC figures this is the best way to practice those L8 skills until bars catches up and then hopefully she'll only have to do one year of level 8.

 

[magymmom]

My dd competed her 2nd year of 8 with a doubleback bar dismount and scored well. She also had 9 skills in her floor routine and did well there also.

 

[Natasha]

The only L9 skills not allowed in L8 would be the D skills, and at L9 you are limited to only 1 D skill on each event anyway. So, yes, it would be possible to do the harder skills at L8, they just won't necessarily score any better. I do think L8 is limited to the # of C acro skills in routines as well- 1 each event I think.

 

[kris]

Because of a gym change, my DD is going to repeat 8 this year, and will have close to level 9 routines. The biggest difference is that you can only have one "C" level skill on each event that isn't on the list of C skills that any number are allowed in level 8. And like was mentioned no D skills. She'll likely have a toe hecht on bars, 3/2 twist on floor, and I'm not sure what on beam in addition to some of the "allowable" C skills -- pirouette on bars, etc.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

It's all irrelevant until you get to level 10 anyways. So whatever path you take, make is safe clean and effective. In other words if you got the goods, do it, if not don't.

 

[Smiley007]

Thank you everyone for your replies. We are sticking with level 8 and will incorporate as many level 9 skills as possible.

 

[Honey]

Thank you everyone for your replies. We are sticking with level 8 and will incorporate as many level 9 skills as possible.

So just out of curiosity, any idea what her routines will look like? What level 9 skills will she be including?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It's all irrelevant until you get to level 10 anyways. So whatever path you take, make is safe clean and effective. In other words if you got the goods, do it, if not don't.

This

 

[mariposa]

My daughter is repeating level 8 and will be doing C skills on bars, beam and floor. She did back tuck on beam last year and will be doing that again this year, possibly connected to a jump, on bars she should be doing her double back dismount and on floor a 1.5 or double twist. She is happy to be getting to do upgraded routines. She doesn't like to compete a level if she's not really ready, so repeating 8, up training level 9 skills and throwing in C skills where she can is a good solution.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

"Our coaches have NEVER had a gymnast do only 1 year of L9"

This statement concerns me a little...just because of your dd's goals. How many L10's from your gym have received scholarship offers in the past? While it is common to repeat L9, it is not impossible to have a very talented gymmie skip L9..and most gyms get one of those every few years. There was a L8 repeat at dd's gym on track to skip L9, but missed 2 months with an injury. There is another on the bubble of L8/L9 who is already training "D" skills for L10. DD's gym has a decent track record of getting to L10 without repeating. (some do repeat, and a lot drop out along the way) However, it is not UNUSUAL to go through L7-10 one level per year. Also, It is not uncommon for gymnasts to compete harder routines than required such as you have described. For example, the general rule at dd's gym is to compete BHS/BLO on beam at L8, with a BT if you have it, and a full twist dismount. Most do a double-tuck dm on bars. So I think your dd is in a great position to have a super year at L8. Hopefully, she can continue to uptrain and only spend 1 year at L9.

 

[esor]

then she wouldn't be a level 10 until she is a HS junior (too late for a D1 school to be interested in her unless, of course, she does amazingly well at JO Nationals her junior year). Thanks for any insight you might have for this situation.

Just to comment on this, we have a girl out our gym who got a D1 full ride scholarship after 1 year of level 10 as a Junior. She made it to L9 Easterns and did really well there, and only had a so-so year as a first year L10. So anything is possible

 

[Smiley007]

Wow - thank you everyone for your replies! My DD will do double back on bars, and if she can get her shootover, she will alternate doing that and the double back in meets since you apparently can't do both. Coach has her doing a Tsuk layout on vault, and back tuck & back-handspring/back-handspring on beam. Not sure her dismount. She is still working on her floor tumbling, but I think she is close to a 1 1/2 full.

Our girls program is small, young, and has only graduated one level 10 who went on to a D3 team. We are fairly inexperienced in that manner. It will take a lot of work to learn what it takes to get to a D1 school. We are not inclined to move gyms right now; I am trying to work with the coaches/gym own to get them the tools and coaching support they need to give our current optional girls the best chances possible. It probably doesn't help either that our girls only train 17-18 hours a week so we will have to be extremely efficient in our training.

 

[gymdog]

"Our coaches have NEVER had a gymnast do only 1 year of L9"

This statement concerns me a little...just because of your dd's goals. How many L10's from your gym have received scholarship offers in the past? While it is common to repeat L9, it is not impossible to have a very talented gymmie skip L9..and most gyms get one of those every few years. There was a L8 repeat at dd's gym on track to skip L9, but missed 2 months with an injury. There is another on the bubble of L8/L9 who is already training "D" skills for L10. DD's gym has a decent track record of getting to L10 without repeating. (some do repeat, and a lot drop out along the way) However, it is not UNUSUAL to go through L7-10 one level per year. Also, It is not uncommon for gymnasts to compete harder routines than required such as you have described. For example, the general rule at dd's gym is to compete BHS/BLO on beam at L8, with a BT if you have it, and a full twist dismount. Most do a double-tuck dm on bars. So I think your dd is in a great position to have a super year at L8. Hopefully, she can continue to uptrain and only spend 1 year at L9.

It's HIGHLY unusual to go through level 7-10 at one level per year unless you're elite tracked. 8 and 9 are frequently repeated. There's definitely nothing wrong with that the OP's coaches are saying for the average JO non elite training program type of hours and commitment. Also, if you competed the beam routine you described at level 8, you would be hit with big deductions because it violates the difficulty restrictions for that level (they can do one C acro skill). But really, this goes back to coachp's post in that only the skills matter and not what the level is called. It's frequently better to repeat a level in order to train the technique of the next skills without the pressure of rushing to compete them and then getting fears, injuries, poor technique. So, we agree about that.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

It's HIGHLY unusual to go through level 7-10 at one level per year unless you're elite tracked. 8 and 9 are frequently repeated. There's definitely nothing wrong with that the OP's coaches are saying for the average JO non elite training program type of hours and commitment. Also, if you competed the beam routine you described at level 8, you would be hit with big deductions because it violates the difficulty restrictions for that level (they can do one C acro skill). But really, this goes back to coachp's post in that only the skills matter and not what the level is called. It's frequently better to repeat a level in order to train the technique of the next skills without the pressure of rushing to compete them and then getting fears, injuries, poor technique. So, we agree about that.

I stand corrected on the beam..I think the preference is for BHS/BLO but some compete a BT instead if they don't have that series. We had a L8 state and regional beam champ this season, I just watched her routine on YT. She competed BHS/BLO and a RO/Full dismount. (maybe the full is a "b"?) But my point was, it's not unheard of to compete upgraded skills when they are clean. Our gym claims this is why they have above-average success getting athletes all the way to L9 and L10.

Kipper's gym had 6 L10's compete at the state meet (I just looked) All but one scored 36 - 38, so they are "true" L10. The only one who repeated a level getting there transferred from a different gym after her first year of L9. There are 2 others who did not compete at state due to injury, but neither of them repeated L7-9 either. So I would say at her gym, it is not "highly unusual". Nothing wrong with repeating a level when it's warranted, and I would say that looking at all programs across the US, repeating is the norm. Kipper's gym does have repeaters..but they also have several who are one-year-per-level, and a few who skip levels.

So, my point to the OP was, the fact that her gym repeats L9 without exception seemed odd to me. They NEVER had anyone do a single year of L9. The statement wasn't that it's infrequent to do a single year, but they NEVER do a single year. Compared to a gym that I KNOW produces Div 1 athletes routinely where L9 is rarely repeated. There are some gyms in our area who have lots of L7-L9 repeaters, but they rarely have anyone reach L10 with full 10.0 start values, and almost never have athletes go on to NCAA gym. If her dd's goal is college gym, it just made me wonder enough to ask the question. If her dd is at a gym where almost everyone does 2 years at 8, then repeats 9 until they quit or graduate, she is not likely to meet her goal, even if she has the talent. I just wanted to raise the question.

@gymdog You're welcome to PM me for gym details. We can still agree that it's the skills that matter more than the level, and competing where you are comfortable and successful is much more important than rushing to L10.

 

[gymdog]

A full off beam is a B.

But it really just depends on how they have the program set up. It is not the norm to compete a BHS layout in beam in level 8 so if all the level 8s do that and do not repeat, then my guess is they only take very talented athletes into optional so in the first place and the "average" kids are in Xcel. That is fine, but a different path than other gyms. But the truth is across every gym in the U.S., encompassing very successful gyms, repeating at least once in Level 7-9 is the norm. It also depends on how competitive the area is with the odd numbered regions being generally more competitive than the even. This just follows the population and gym number trends in the areas really.

 

[gymdog]

So, I just looked up Twin City Twisters as an example. I picked TCT because they have the distinction of qualifying the most level 10s to JOs. Now they obviously also have an elite program. I looked through the 10s. Multiple 10s had repeated level 9. In fact, one girl did 4 seasons of level 9, and got a 38+ 3rd place finish at 2015 JOs so she's definitely a "real" level 10 now. There were a few girls particularly among the elites who did not repeat, but even at least one of the elites had repeated an optional level. But I don't consider not repeating in an elite program to be too uncommon because usually it signifies 1. Higher aptitude and 2. Additional training hours with more semi private coaching.

I didn't even look into the 8s or 9s but I would expect to see repeating there too. My point isn't to say that there aren't examples of gymnasts who did optionals in a few years, but that it isn't the average path for the average JO athlete.

 

[Natasha]

"Our coaches have NEVER had a gymnast do only 1 year of L9"

This statement concerns me a little...just because of your dd's goals. How many L10's from your gym have received scholarship offers in the past? While it is common to repeat L9, it is not impossible to have a very talented gymmie skip L9..and most gyms get one of those every few years. There was a L8 repeat at dd's gym on track to skip L9, but missed 2 months with an injury. There is another on the bubble of L8/L9 who is already training "D" skills for L10. DD's gym has a decent track record of getting to L10 without repeating. (some do repeat, and a lot drop out along the way) However, it is not UNUSUAL to go through L7-10 one level per year. Also, It is not uncommon for gymnasts to compete harder routines than required such as you have described. For example, the general rule at dd's gym is to compete BHS/BLO on beam at L8, with a BT if you have it, and a full twist dismount. Most do a double-tuck dm on bars. So I think your dd is in a great position to have a super year at L8. Hopefully, she can continue to uptrain and only spend 1 year at L9.

 

[Smiley007]

Thanks for all of the info! One of the coaches I talked to (a coach not on the girls team, but on the boys team) shared with me "it's important to push - but not to rush". Even though there hasn't been a girl who hasn't repeated level 9 yet, I think it could change for our gym as they continue to develop the girls program and upgrade their resources/equipment. Since I first started this post back in the summer, I've seen many positive developments including support from other optional parents who are willing to help pay for these upgrades because they would rather stay than change gyms. Hoping for the best! Thanks again for all of your insights and sharing!

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

A full off beam is a B.

But it really just depends on how they have the program set up. It is not the norm to compete a BHS layout in beam in level 8 so if all the level 8s do that and do not repeat, then my guess is they only take very talented athletes into optional so in the first place and the "average" kids are in Xcel. That is fine, but a different path than other gyms. But the truth is across every gym in the U.S., encompassing very successful gyms, repeating at least once in Level 7-9 is the norm. It also depends on how competitive the area is with the odd numbered regions being generally more competitive than the even. This just follows the population and gym number trends in the areas really.

ah.. @gymdog we're really saying the same thing. Most girls repeat at least one optional level. DD's gym has several repeating L7 and L8 this year. You missed my point however, my concern is that the OP's gym had NEVER had anyone do a single year of L9. She didn't say that MOST of them repeated L9...but ALL of them. Considering how many have done single years of L9 at my dd's gym, that fact simply made me question whether her gym is capable of helping dd reach her goals. I'm curious whether they have the coaching staff to produce strong L10 athletes. I'm not questioning the general rule of repeating optional levels. Ha! If my dd even makes it to L9, I'm betting she repeats L7 and L8 along the way. ;-) It could be that this fact means absolutely nothing, and that her gym has produced several NCAA athletes in the past. If, however, they've never done it, repeating optional levels becomes a moot point.

Just FYI...every athlete is welcomed to JO at dd's gym. We have a small Xcel team that a parent may choose if they want a smaller commitment. Our coaches are proud of the fact they help "average" athletes deliver exceptional performance. Before we switched, I used to think they only allowed the most talented girls on team. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's hard, and not the best fit for every athlete, but no one is turned away. We're in an "odd" numbered region.