Parents Choosing to stay L3 and not move up...

[LJL07]

Ok, sorry, on phone and just read OP's response. Agree that 9 pm is way too late for that age. As long as they are willing to allow other young kids regardless of skill the reduced hours. Nothing wrong with wanting to slow it down with a young child. I just felt like original post sounded like she wanted a special schedule from other teammates. It does stink that you don't have other options.

 

[Natasha]

I don't understand how asking to stay at a lower level with less hours is being entitled? To me being entitled is asking to move up a level but do less hours.... and this is a first grader with 9pm practices! At our gym anyone can choose to not come for all the practices, but the consequences are that they will not move up to the next level and/or may not be allowed to compete at meets....and of course they still have to pay the full tuition. Why should a parent care what another kid does? I understand in a sport like soccer where you need everyone working together and the team wins or loses, but gymnastics is individual.

 

[Natasha]

I can't imagine 5 hrs/week for L4! My dd goes 12 hrs/wk for L3, JUST their conditioning each week takes approx 4-5 hours (1 to 1 1/2 hrs per practice for conditioning and stretching). I'd try to find her a great xcel program. She'd have a blast learning new skills and making up her own routines, and the hours would probably be less demanding.

BUT she isn't asking for 5 hours a week for L4, she is asking to repeat L3 so that she doesn't have to do the 16 hours of L4 (4 nights a week until 9pm!!! that is what I can't imagine!)

 

[emorymom]

It's possible that there are girls who lost a spot on team and you don't know it? Based on staffing availability, they only provide space on team to a certain number of girls, but since you don't have that problem, you don't know who's been turned away?

 

[Sasha]

What I'm having a hard time understanding is why some feel it's unfair or wrong of me to do right by my kid....and why should I have to consider leaving a gym or a sport we love because she's not ready for the time needed for L4?

First, you are trying to create an ideal circumstance for your DD's unique set of talents, emotional readiness, and range of interests. That's what all parents try their best to do! So that motivation isn't what is being criticized.

The trouble comes when a program doesn't fit in some obvious way.

You have chosen "Competitive Gymnastics" as the program. Such a program has a highly demanding aim, path, and structure, by definition. The question becomes..

"Should, and to what extent, should a team program be expected to bend for/accommodate a child who isn't ready to commit to what is asked and expected of its team members?"

For the "fewer hours" part of your current situation -

You are asking: "Why can't my DD just come for part of the time when it's convenient for us? The hours are hard for her/us, so why should this matter to others?"

Why-people-are-ticked-off-translation: "Since there is no advanced rec or Xcel option, I want your team program to permit my daughter to enjoy all the benefits of team, and I want your coaches to commit to teaching her, but we are not going to commit to the full practice schedule like the other girls because we still want to do fun things like Brownies and summertime play dates. My DD is talented and keeping up on skills with fewer hours, so we don't think we should have to come as often. We think we should get to do what we want, instead of what the team requires."

At the same time, other kids and parents are committing fully, making sacrifices such as having dinner in their cars on the commute home from gym to maximize sleep time, and giving up brownies and long summer play dates.

If the schedule is difficult for numerous families (I agree 9pm is harsh!), then I'm curious if families have tried to collectively help create a friendlier schedule?

If ALL families are given the chance to do a 'reduced hours' option, regardless of talent, then I think you're in the clear here.

The other part of your original question that is confusing people/rubbing the wrong way...
You say: "She is non-competitive and is there to learn new skills"
Ticked-off-people-translation: "Coaches, please continue to work hard to teach my DD new skills, because she isn't that motivated to work hard perfecting all the details JO requires, but also isn't yet ready or willing to put in the hours that the other kids learning new L4/L5 skills are committing to. "

If she does stay in L3 another year (which I think is fine!), I think it is unreasonable, though, to expect the coaches to work on new skills with her. Will she get bored? Or will she dedicate herself and focus on perfecting all the little things an outstanding L3 performance requires? If she is up for this task, rather than learning new skills, then I also think you're in the clear here.

It's GREAT she has some L4 skills already and is a fast learner. And it's GREAT you are attentive to her emotional well being and what she wants and needs, and trying to avoid early burnout!

It's a BUMMER there is no Xcel or Rec near you, so I understand why you're stuck in a predicament!

But I do advise that this is Competitive Gymnastics, and coaches put SO much time and energy into their athletes - it is easy to see why coaches might be less enthusiastic about wanting to help a child (talented or not) who doesn't want to come as much as others, and has a (reportedly) somewhat cavalier attitude toward competing. I do hope you can find what fits all involved!!

 

[LJL07]

I don't understand how asking to stay at a lower level with less hours is being entitled? To me being entitled is asking to move up a level but do less hours.... and this is a first grader with 9pm practices! At our gym anyone can choose to not come for all the practices, but the consequences are that they will not move up to the next level and/or may not be allowed to compete at meets....and of course they still have to pay the full tuition. Why should a parent care what another kid does? I understand in a sport like soccer where you need everyone working together and the team wins or loses, but gymnastics is individual.

Agree about the 9 pm! Way too late! I posted without reading her response. However, there is a team score, and it IS a team, so I stand by not giving one kid a special schedule. I really have no idea how to advise. Some 7 year olds won't pick up the skills as fast, so is it fair to make the kids who don't learn as fast go the full 9 hrs, but not this child? I don't think so. If they allow all the 7 yr olds less hours, then fine. at some point within the next year or so, they may need to fish or cut bait. It's a shame the op doesn't have more options.

 

[LJL07]

Perfect, Sasha! You said everything I was trying to say but not well worded!

 

[gymgal]

To clear up some questions:
....we moved from Maryland to Minnesota and the next qym is an hour away.

this clears up why you don't look for another gym. I certainly wouldn't be driving an hour for such a young child. So that doesn't leave a lot of options. decreasing her hours was probably best. did you address this with the coach and what was his/her take on it? And it is probably best to keep her in L3 since there is no way she could manage the hours in L4. They seem a little high. Usually it goes from 9, 12, 15 or there abouts. Do you plan to increase her to the 9 hrs this year to help her transition more easily to L4 hours? At least for summer, she will still have plenty of time for other things.

our level 3 program is from 6-9pm 3x a week. L4 is 5-9 4x a week. I'm sorry, I think for some little ones, that's too late to be out and expected to get up in the morning for an 8am bus and be happy sitting in her school desk.

and I guess this is where most of us question why she was placed on team in the first place. If you knew it was going to be an issue, why not let her stay in rec classes another yr to give her time to mature and be more ready for the team hours. Supplement the rec class with some privates. Again, if it was worked out with the coaches ahead of time that she would go less hours and they were ok with it, then fine but it doesn't seem like the case here.

..and why should I have to consider leaving a gym or a sport we love because she's not ready for the time needed for L4? I would think mothers and coaches would applaud that although she's ready physically but not mentally or emotionally.

you asked for opinions. you said yourself that she doesn't love gymnastics. And she didn't like going so many days because she wanted to do other things (which I still don't understand since she still had 4 days to do this). We offered better alternatives. Unfortunately those aren't available to you so you have to work with what you have. If you plan to increase her to the L3 hours this summer and fall, then it shouldn't be as big a deal, but if you continue to modify her schedule (which is the impression I get), then she will just have this problem again next year when she transitions to L4. the times are not going to change. You will still be dealing with 9pm endings.

Again, I just have to think about what I would do in this situation. And if I felt that my dd couldn't commit fully to the team as laid out by the gym, for whatever reason, then I wouldn't put her on team. I would wait until she showed signs of being more ready to handle all aspects. If that never came, then we would look at other options. Team isn't for everyone, including those who show natural talent. Gymnastics is too expensive and time consuming to do and if Dd's heart isn't fully in it, I'm not committing resources to it.

 

[wallflower]

As a parent of a gymnast on a team I would never look at someone else going less hours and think "How unfair she goes less hours and my child has to do more! She pays the same amount and gets less hours? The horror!" I've never met a team parent at those levels who was jealous of someone doing less hours. The typical story is Susie's mom made up a conflict so she could train with the level 4's. Susie got 3 more hours than my daughter . It's so unfair. My daughter could have been state champion if she got an extra 3 hours.

If I were a parent on this team I'd be happy to have a smaller group 1 day a week. More attention for my kid.

Everyone has a different commitment level to gymnastics. Mine is never late, never misses unless forced to due to illness, we schedule our vacations only when we are told the gym is closed. Other girls on her team are late a lot, leave early at times their parents see fit, take a 2 weeks vacation whenever they please, miss days for whatever comes up, etc. So even if they generally make all the hours, they have a different commitment level.

 

[Natasha]

I agree wallflower. I understand where some coaches and team programs will not allow less hours, especially if they have limited space. I get how coaches can have a problem with it (although personally I don't understand expecting a first grader to have practice until 9pm 3 nights a week). But I do not understand why it should matter to parents and I don't think the "team score" is a valid argument since really it is only the top 3 scores, we are talking level 3 and I have a hard time believing that having a 6 year old do those late hours would actually help the team score.
As a parent, I would prefer that other parents would let their kids stay home from practice on days their kid doesn't want to be there because it is much more frustrating to watch my dd wait for equipment because a teammate is goofing around or hanging upside down on the bar fixing her grips while she procrastinates what she doesn't want to do...

 

[LJL07]

As a parent of a gymnast on a team I would never look at someone else going less hours and think "How unfair she goes less hours and my child has to do more! She pays the same amount and gets less hours? The horror!" I've never met a team parent at those levels who was jealous of someone doing less hours. The typical story is Susie's mom made up a conflict so she could train with the level 4's. Susie got 3 more hours than my daughter . It's so unfair. My daughter could have been state champion if she got an extra 3 hours.

If I were a parent on this team I'd be happy to have a smaller group 1 day a week. More attention for my kid.

Everyone has a different commitment level to gymnastics. Mine is never late, never misses unless forced to due to illness, we schedule our vacations only when we are told the gym is closed. Other girls on her team are late a lot, leave early at times their parents see fit, take a 2 weeks vacation whenever they please, miss days for whatever comes up, etc. So even if they generally make all the hours, they have a different commitment level.

"Generally make all the hours." Ok, fine. But the child is not generally making the hours. Most parents at my gym would be resentful, but maybe you are at an extra tolerant gym.

 

[wallflower]

"Generally make all the hours." Ok, fine. But the child is not generally making the hours. Most parents at my gym would be resentful, but maybe you are at an extra tolerant gym.

When I spoke of kids generally making the hours I was talking about kids at MY DD's gym who generally make the hours required of their level, but its obvious from other actions that their commitment level is different than ours. I have no issue with them having less of a commitment than my child. We each choose our own commitment level in this sport whether that is doing less hours, being late, leaving early, missing for vacations, doing privates or not doing privates, etc.

You must go to a very different gym than I've ever heard of because I have NEVER heard of someone being resentful of a child choosing to do less hours and not move up a level. At our gym parents are resentful of those who go overboard with privates, manipulate to get extra hours (not less), find a way to get Susie the extra attention to move up when their child is left behind.

The original poster should come to our gym. You would be everyone's best friend. You want your child to do less hours? Oh how wonderful! One less kid for my kid to worry about!

And perhaps by declining a spot to move up when she KNOWS her child is not ready, she is giving someone else next on the list a chance to move up. Maybe they are less talented or less prepared to move up skill wise , but they will be willing to put in the hours.

 

[LJL07]

When I spoke of kids generally making the hours I was talking about kids at MY DD's gym who generally make the hours required of their level, but its obvious from other actions that their commitment level is different than ours. I have no issue with them having less of a commitment than my child. We each choose our own commitment level in this sport whether that is doing less hours, being late, leaving early, missing for vacations, doing privates or not doing privates, etc.

You must go to a very different gym than I've ever heard of because I have NEVER heard of someone being resentful of a child choosing to do less hours and not move up a level. At our gym parents are resentful of those who go overboard with privates, manipulate to get extra hours (not less), find a way to get Susie the extra attention to move up when their child is left behind.

The original poster should come to our gym. You would be everyone's best friend. You want your child to do less hours? Oh how wonderful! One less kid for my kid to worry about!

And perhaps by declining a spot to move up when she KNOWS her child is not ready, she is giving someone else next on the list a chance to move up. Maybe they are less talented or less prepared to move up skill wise , but they will be willing to put in the hours.

You are completely missing the point. My daughter is the same age and goes her 6 hours like everyone else on her team. We don't negotiate to cut out hours in half, and it is clear the coaches are not on board with this. It's special treatment, and no wonder people are aggravated at her gym. How many 1st graders just busy out with kips and level 4/5 skills at 5 hours a week? No one I've seen. It's a bad attitude and a great way to alienate team members, esp since she is picking up hard skills very quickly that some kids work very hard to attain. Look, Sasha echoed in a nice way every sentiment I wish to express. We will have to agree to disagree. Again, I'm glad everyone is so super tolerant at your gym.

 

[LJL07]

*bust out with

 

[3LittleGymmies]

I have to agree with @AandAsmom. I posted about an issue at my gym a few weeks ago where many parents were complaining about the summer schedule and already planning how they would conveniently miss the early hours. The same parents are also pulling their girls out of the gym for several weeks during the summer for the different vacations. This bothers me because my daughter is committed and we support that. As long as she is healthy, she will be at the practices that she is expected to be at. She made a commitment and signed a contract, and as her parents, it is our job to teach her what commitment means. And honestly, commitment does not mean molding a situation to what fits you best. Commitment might mean making a decision that this is something that you really want to do and it is something that is more important than other things that you may want to do. As her parents, commitment for us means getting her to the practices, paying the tuition, traveling to the meets, doing the hair, encouraging her, and if it comes down to it, helping her decide if this is what she really wants because it generally requires a lot of sacrifice. I understand that that is a big commitment for a young child to make. But this is why there may be another non-competitive option that works best for her. In my opinion, it is just not fair to allow varied levels of commitment when it comes to competitive sports. What is important to one family may be different for another family, and coaches cannot make special exceptions for everyone. The hours are set by the coaches, and it should be required to attend the scheduled hours to be a part of that specific level unless there is a very good reason. I understand that 9 o'clock is late. We used to have practices until 9 o'clock at our old gym before we moved. I can definitely understand a much younger child going home a little early on those nights. If your daughter does not want to be there more than 5 hours, you may want to put your goal of longevity in the sport aside and look more into that. It is absolutely okay to be good at something, but not want to do it on a competitive level. I have seen many very talented girls quit because they just did not want it. It did not matter if their parents or coaches wanted it for them. And I think it is perfectly reasonable for other parents and gymnasts to be upset that they are fulfilling the commitment and others are not but are still allowed to be part of the team. If she is ready to move up skill wise, and the coaches obviously feel that she is mature enough and capable of handling the hours, I am just not sure what holding her back will do. I have honestly never heard of a gymnast of any age cutting their hours so much or repeating a level unnecessarily just so that they did not have to do more hours. If she stays in level 3, will she do all of the hours?

 

[wallflower]

You are completely missing the point. My daughter is the same age and goes her 6 hours like everyone else on her team. We don't negotiate to cut out hours in half, and it is clear the coaches are not on board with this. It's special treatment, and no wonder people are aggravated at her gym. How many 1st graders just busy out with kips and level 4/5 skills at 5 hours a week? No one I've seen. It's a bad attitude and a great way to alienate team members, esp since she is picking up hard skills very quickly that some kids work very hard to attain. Look, Sasha echoed in a nice way every sentiment I wish to express. We will have to agree to disagree. Again, I'm glad everyone is so super tolerant at your gym.

Oh I get it now. It's the jealousy of a child doing less hours and being better.

We won't agree because my kid is in a high level and I've long given up on focusing on what everyone else's kid is doing. I just hope she doesn't break her neck. We are in totally different points in this journey. You'll get there some day and then you'll get it

 

[MILgymFAM]

Here is an anecdote on why parents get aggravated at other families lack of commitment. My DDs regionals is in two weeks. Eighteen team members qualified, and all but one had committed to go. At our school the team agreement states you will attend all meets you are qualified for and healthy enough for. The state qualifying meet was two weeks ago. Today over half the parents decided to back out, because the drive is too long, and the girls are competing on Sunday- and the parents are inconvenienced by that. I understand this to an extent, but now only three girls (!!) from DDs team will be there. The regional meet meant a lot more to DD than just competing. It was, to her, a bonding team experience. Being a part of a team and supporting one other is SO important to DD. She is devastated now. She is a mature child, and has focused on being sad for her teammates who aren't being allowed to go (all of the kids want to go, of course), but I am upset at the parents lack of commitment, to both their girls and the team. My DD is actually teaching me a lesson in tolerance here, but yeah- the TEAM matters, even in an individual sport.

 

[sevenatenine2]

Oh, wow, didn't expect this to get so heated!

Mom, you are doing a good job navigating what is right for your gymnast. Please note that the mom and daughter told the coach what they'd LIKE to do, as in their opinion, not that they were bossing.

As a coach, if I have a talented seven year old and she is burning out, you better believe I'd modify the hours. I'd much rather have the kid move more slowly through the levels then burn out at 8 (like so many talented ones do).

As for other parents, it's not their business. It has little to no effect on their child and their performance. Zero. As long as you're paying full tuition, it's fair.

My old coach used to say, "If they're not in the gym, I can't train them." As long as parents understand that, we are good.

 

[LJL07]

Oh I get it now. It's the jealousy of a child doing less hours and being better.

We won't agree because my kid is in a high level and I've long given up on focusing on what everyone else's kid is doing. I just hope she doesn't break her neck. We are in totally different points in this journey. You'll get there some day and then you'll get it

Nice. You are NOT AT ALL condescending. That's not the first time I've seen that from you. You have no clue what my daughter can and can't do. Again, not the point. Please go back to being a "wallflower." Best of luck to your daughter. I sure hope I "get it" one day and can be a seasoned expert just like you!

One of my daughters is very good at soccer, but we opted to remain on rec team bc we were not ready for the level of commitment of competitive soccer. This is really no different. As the above poster @5girls1boy said, we too had to sign a contract at the current gym, and if you can't meet team requirements, you aren't on team.

 

[wallflower]

You can take it as condescending if you want, but that just further serves what I'm saying. We've all been in your position of being so concerned about what everyone else was doing when our kids were low levels. Then they got to level 8, level 9, level 10 and it's just not an issue anymore. We have real gymnastics problems to worry about. We are no longer jealous of our kid's teammates getting something faster or better with less hours because they are like sisters to our daughters. They are the ones that pick our child up when they are having a rough day. How could we resent a teammate who may be the only way our child makes it through a hard day? The only person in her world who understand so intimately what she deals with everyday. You don't get this at level 1, but you will if your child is lucky enough to make it to the higher levels. Then we can have a real discussion about commitment.