Chronic stretching/over stretching

[dancesterx3]

Is it possible to over stretch? I have a tendency to hold stretches for the length of a song, especially major stretches like hip flexors, splits, straddles, etc. I also stretch as much as two or three times a day. But I do admit that the next day I will be too sore to walk up the stairs at school the next day and will take a day or two off until I'm not sore and restart the process, is this too much? I do dance and I've been a gymnast in my past, so I know HOW to stretch and how to hold the positions properly, I'm just wondering if the time is too much? I know a lot of people say to hold the position for 20 or 30 seconds, but I don't feel like I'm gaining anything from such a short time period. I've also heard to hold it till you can't feel the stretch anymore.

So I was wondering what some of the more advanced gymnasts do when they stretch, hold long do you hold the stretch and how often a day/week do you stretch?

 

[ebie2005]

you could overstretch by going to far into your stertch basically pushing yourself too far. i hold my splits for 3 mins but i know girls who hold it for 5 mins i think there is a point where there is no point holding it anyore but your need to hold it for a minimum of 30 seconds

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

There is a certain point past which holding the stretch does you no good.

However, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on where that point is. I've heard everything from 20 seconds to a minute and a half.

Stretching beyond that will not, to the best of my knowledge, cause any long-term muscle damage. It WILL, however, decrease the muscles' power output in the short term. It's inadvisable to hold a split for more than ten or fifteen seconds before tumbling or vaulting, for example.

There are two types of stretching which are in my opinion too frequently combined: stretching to warm up and stretching to increase flexibility. These are two VERY different goals.

During warm ups, stretches should be fairly brief -- say 10-20 seconds -- anything beyond that and you are DECREASING the amount of power that muscle will have during subsequent exercises.

Stretching to increase flexibility is, in my opinion, best done at the end of a workout. Exactly how long you should hold these depends on who you ask, but I tend to have my kids hold them for 45 seconds to a minute.

 

[dancesterx3]

What about stretching to increase flexibility in order to achieve a certain stunt. IE, I'm into cheerleading and I'm working on this thing called a Tick Tock which is basically hitting a left heel stretch and immediately switching to a right (or vice versa). Well I have my right heel stretch, I can do that in my sleep, but my left side not so much. I can say confidently that I am more flexible on my right side than my left, this is also true for my strength. I'm also trying to increase my back flexibilty in order to get a higher and straight legged scale and a scorpion. I know I should probably take this to the cheer forums, but I figured this might get more traffic, and gymnasts sometimes use these similar things in beam routines, I've seen both the scale and the scorpion used in beam routines.

 

[BlairBob]

Stretching and gaining flexibility to do a necessary skill is simply necessary if you want to do that skill.

Excessive flexibility can lead to lower power production. There is basically a sliding scale when it comes to strength and flexibility with them at each end. However, if you aren't flexible enough to perform or strong enough, it's moot.

20-30 seconds may not be long enough to surpass the stretch reflex. How long that is depends on how flexible or how often that person trains flexibility.

I have heard of some dancers holding stretches for 5-15 minutes. I'm not a fan of doing this for gymnasts. There is some data and thought out there that by that time we are stretching tendons which is not good.

If you are stretching 3-7 minutes (for a song) and are very tight for a few days it is because stretching has a similar effect like strength conditioning where you tear down muscle fibers and they need time to reheal.

If you stretch for that long and cannot train and this is a typical occurrence, that would be dumb. If the amount of pain it causes decreases over a few weeks because it's an acclimation period, then that can be acceptable.

 

[CoachTodd]

If you are that sore after stretching, you may not be warming up enough before working flexibility. As GT mentioned it is best to work flex after a good workout and as Bob mentioned it is very similar to strength conditioning. If you work flex without out warming up first, it would be the same effect as lifting weights, the muscles get tighter and in many cases larger thus having the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve.

 

[dancesterx3]

So about how long would you say is long enough to hold a stretch in order to gain more flexibility? What would be an ideal time period for each stretch in order to gain more flexibility and lower soreness the next day?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So about how long would you say is long enough to hold a stretch in order to gain more flexibility? What would be an ideal time period for each stretch in order to gain more flexibility and lower soreness the next day?

Answers vary depending on who you ask. I've seen studies suggesting the ideal time is 15 seconds, I've seen studies suggesting there's no benefit to anything under 45 seconds, I've seen studies suggesting just about everything; my guess is that it varies from person to person, depending on a number of factors. My inclination would be to go for less than a minute per set, and do multiple sets if you have time.

I admit my understanding of the science behind this is limited; there are likely other coaches here who can give you a more in-depth response.

 

[BlairBob]

What are you trying to stretch now? Front/side splits? Pancake split? Pike or bridge? At what angle are you at now?

There really hasn't been any definitive work out there when it comes to stretching. There has been some studies, here and there but it really varies from athlete to athlete.

Factors:

-how naturally flexible they are

-current flexibility

-how long they have been undergoing a flexibility program

-how often do they work flexibility a week, how many sets and how long of duration, what stretches

-how loose the tissue is. whether it's has been warmed up.

-pain tolerance. you'll find that some young gymnasts have a very low pain tolerance so it can be very hard to get them to stretch properly in the first place since they won't push themselves or give up very easily.

An athlete's stretch reflex will vary. Some studies have shown stretch reflex to be lower in children than in adults. This could just be that said adults are very tight or never stretched before.

If I have a naturally flexible gymnast, perhaps even one of those loosey-goosey kind; they may gain flexibility a lot faster than a different gymnast. In fact, their muscles may be loose and not very tight or strong to begin with so it could be easier compared ot if I have a gymnast who is like a bar of iron.

 

[dancesterx3]

ok let me so how in depth I can go without confusing you all. I've been in everything from dance to gymnastics my whole life, I'm naturally more flexible on my right side than my left, I have my right front split down, my left side I'd say I'm about 2 to 3 inches off the ground. As far as front splits are concerned, I am far past 90 degrees but not that close to 180, I'd guess in the 150 to 165 degree zone and able to lay my stomach completely on the ground. I have photos of my splits if you want visual aid, I know this is so much easier to just show you if you were here. my tolerance for pain as far as stretching goes, My motto's always it's not benefiting if it doesn't hurt. If you're sitting there and you can't feel the stretch anymore it's time to push farther. I've also noticed that when I do stretches, I'll either push too far or hold it for so long that my feet start to tingle, I don't know if thats a bad thing, I would guess yes. Because I'm working on achieving certain skills like my left heel stretch and my scorpion, I am focusing on getting certain parts of my body more flexible, my back and my thigh muscles, as well as hip flexors. I do bridges for my back but I sometimes find it really hard to breathe and the blood rushes to my head really fast and it makes staying up for more than 30 seconds difficult(its been like that my whole life). I'm also doing this thing I saw someone else doing on youtube, where you lay on your back and bring your foot up towards your butt or your back and lay like that and it helps pull the hip flexor muscles, as well as doing a runners type of stretch and then laying my knee on the floor and pulling my back foot up to my back and holding it for an extra pull.

I can get pictures of all the stretches I do and you can see, but I don't know how much more of a help that would be.

 

[BlairBob]

I don't need pictures but thankyou.

How long has it been since your flexibility gains have stalled out and what is your current stretching regimen?

How long do you hold the stretch? Oh, wait as long as a song.
How many times do you do each stretch?
Do you simply just hold the R/L/middle splits?

Do you always hold the stretch for the length of a song (2.5 to 7 minutes)?

Do you do a warmup before stretching? Just something to elevate your body heat and the pliability of the muscle tissue.

You may benefit from contract-relax stretching versus just passive stretching.

Simply squeeze the muscles in your legs as hard as you can for 6-10s, then relax and go lower. Generally, I would have them do:

passive for 15 seconds or 30 seconds, contract for 6-10 seconds, passive for 30 or 45, contract for 6-10, passive for 60-90 seconds, contract for 6-10 seconds, passive for 75-150 seconds.

Ideally I would have them do it for 30,45,60,75,90,120,150. Contract in between. Right and left splits besides middle or pancake besides pike and shoulder flexion/extension ( cat stretch and hands behind back while sitting stretch ).

Too bad we get into time constraints and the fact that some gymnasts have a lack of focus and pain tolerance (especially young ones). Thus, I generally can sometimes get them to do 30-45-60 or 30-60-90 with 3 sets of 6-10 contractions before the passive stretch.

 

[dancesterx3]

currently, I am stretching at least once a day depending on how sore I am. Usually, I'll start by doing these reach type things where you reach one hand over your head towards the opposite side and then reverse it on the other side. I do a set of 8 on those then put my hands on the floor to stretch the back of my legs and then switch and do the right side and then the left. then usually I'll sit on t he floor and extend my right leg out with my left leg in, kinda like a half straddle, and warm up those muscles, then switch and do it on the left, then I'll slide into my straddle and usually here I'll hold the middle stretch for about a song, then I'll do a reach to the right and left sides for those stretches, and one where I put my nose on my knee, then i'll hold the middle stretch again, but not for a song length. After that I'll hold a pike stretch for a song, and then do this thing where I lay down and bring my foot up towards my butt, to stretch the hip and quad muscles, this I'll hold for a song. Then i'll sit in a "herkie" kind of shape (front leg extended back leg kind of curved towards my butt) and I'll stretch the front leg in preparation for a split, which I will then hold for a song and try and bring my foot to my head. Then I'll switch do the lay down thing again and repeat the stretch on the left side, Since I can't slide a 180 on my left side it's hard to hold me up (and often kind of painful) to hold it for one song, but I'll go as long as I can before I can't take it anymore. Then I'll do a bridge which I can only hold for about 30 seconds. After that I will start working on my heel stretches, scales and sometimes my scorpion, but that really hurts my back and makes breathing kind of difficult.

I don't know what you mean by contract, do you mean like release and then go back into it pushing a little further?

 

[BlairBob]

After you releasing the contraction, you can relax and go deeper into the stretch.

Sitting on your butt isn't a good warmup for muscles.