Anon Coach hit daughter

[WV Gym Mom]

I'm going to try and be the moderate voice here, why come here on a message board to announce this? This is a very serious allegation and while it may be true, it may be false, it may be a misunderstanding. It could be a number of things. I appreciate that you are posting this anonymously so in theory, both parties cannot be harmed by this. But still, let's not all rush to judgment here and sharpen the spikes and light the torches. This is an allegation that should be played out through the proper channels and authorities (safe sport, law enforcement). Only after, and a conviction has been made or the coach banned would I start posting here.

I think many people have been taught over the years to keep abuse private, not talk about it, almost like its a secret, unfortunately. We have seen this lead to bad situations in gymnastics. I am glad she felt comfortable enough to post. The OP didn't mention names and is posting anonymously. She is not rushing to judgement, she SAW this happen. And was not the only one to see it.

She has ZERO obligation to keep anything private, or to not talk/post about her experiences in what she feels is a 'safe' space. Of course, I would hope she had contacted safesport and the law first, but not everyone in a bad situation thinks perfectly clear.

 

[Anonymous Post]

This is terrible advice for this situation.
Whilst context can be all important with deciding if something is verbal abuse there is no context where an adult hitting a child or young person is acceptable. This cannot be misinterpreted. And depending on the country is illegal. The OP has witnessed the event there’s nothing alleged. It’s anonymous. And I’m sincerely hoping that if you had witnessed your gymnast being assaulted you wouldn’t keep sending them to that coach until there was a ban or conviction

The point of the post is not to minimize this alleged incident. The point is that collectively, the rest of us should be muted, tempered and neutral in our responses. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. That is all. An allegation this serious, can and should have serious implications for the alleged party if proven. If false or a misunderstanding, irreparable harm can be made by rushing to judgment. Adjudicating this episode based upon one version of the events behind the keyboard on a message board is a disservice to all. By all means, if this parent believes what they saw they should aggressively pursue all avenues to persecute this individual.

 

[Anonymous Post]

I am just catching up on this and oh my goodness. Please ignore the person who suggested this may be a misunderstanding. Terrible, terrible advice and exactly how this sport has the rep it has.

I would consider, after the dust settles, getting your daughter in with a therapist to talk through, so she has an outlet and safe space to get anything related to this off her chest. What an awful thing to experience as a parent, my heart goes out to you!

 

[Bgymh]

I'm going to try and be the moderate voice here, why come here on a message board to announce this? This is a very serious allegation and while it may be true, it may be false, it may be a misunderstanding. It could be a number of things. I appreciate that you are posting this anonymously so in theory, both parties cannot be harmed by this. But still, let's not all rush to judgment here and sharpen the spikes and light the torches. This is an allegation that should be played out through the proper channels and authorities (safe sport, law enforcement). Only after, and a conviction has been made or the coach banned would I start posting here.

because it's a gymnast community. She did not say the place or person that did it, so what's the problem? I think she is just shocked and outraged and wanted SUPPORT from fellow gymnast community. Now that a 2nd person that is on this message board came forward and witnessed the whole thing and backed it up by saying the town, day, and color reference, I think she should blast them imo! Also the mom saw this herself so why are you saying it may be false. I get this can happen, not everyone has morals and can make up lies... but she did not name any names so what would be the point or why would it matter. ( but again i think she should post it now that someone else came forward).

And big thanks to the other mom who came forward by not only standing up for another child and yelling at the coach( it's so good to know if the mom wasn't there not everyone would stand in silence and someone was there to give the child a voice) but ALSO contacting the police and safesport! Now it's not just one moms word.

 

[Anonymous Post]

I'm going to try and be the moderate voice here, why come here on a message board to announce this? This is a very serious allegation and while it may be true, it may be false, it may be a misunderstanding. It could be a number of things. I appreciate that you are posting this anonymously so in theory, both parties cannot be harmed by this. But still, let's not all rush to judgment here and sharpen the spikes and light the torches. This is an allegation that should be played out through the proper channels and authorities (safe sport, law enforcement). Only after, and a conviction has been made or the coach banned would I start posting here.

Yes, that's why I had asked if there was a way to delete it
Also, what do you mean by misunderstanding? I did see it happen and so did the other parents watching, so can you please elaborate?

Thanks for the concern,

 

[Anonymous Post]

Yes, that's why I had asked if there was a way to delete it
Also, what do you mean by misunderstanding? I did see it happen and so did the other parents watching, so can you please elaborate?

Thanks for the concern,

Sure, where you standing right next to her when the coach walked up and slapped her? Did you observe this from a distance? Was there activity in front of your observation? Was there a verbal exchange of words? What were those words? Was your child falling or performing an exercise? Could the distance and activity make it be construed as the coach slapping your child? Where did they slap your child? Across the face, the back, the back side, the arm? Open handed slap, back handed slap? Do you understand my point how this might be a mis-understanding?

I have no doubt you sincerely believe a coach hit your daughter. And if true, this is the most serious and vile offense, not just a coach but anyone can do, and someone like this should rot in hell. My sole point, is that no one else reading this on a message board can answer those questions that I asked above and those should be questions that are asked and answered by authorities to determine the proper course of action. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of examples of prior episodes of one side saying one thing, only to be determined after an investigation that it was a simple misunderstanding. I mean no offense to you or your personal feelings, but I do believe in the rule of law and coming to a public anonymous forum for something like this tends to bring immediate and strong emotional responses where perhaps we should wait.

 

[lovofu]

I'm going to try and be the moderate voice here, why come here on a message board to announce this? This is a very serious allegation and while it may be true, it may be false, it may be a misunderstanding. It could be a number of things. I appreciate that you are posting this anonymously so in theory, both parties cannot be harmed by this. But still, let's not all rush to judgment here and sharpen the spikes and light the torches. This is an allegation that should be played out through the proper channels and authorities (safe sport, law enforcement). Only after, and a conviction has been made or the coach banned would I start posting here.

When a child is assaulted and that assault is seen with a parents two eyes (actually more than the parent) there is NO MISUNDERSTANDING, NO reaction other than to sharpen the spikes and light the torches. Any less than that is to say these young women are not worth fighting for. NO ONE, ever is allowed to SLAP a child EVER.

 

[lovofu]

The point of the post is not to minimize this alleged incident. The point is that collectively, the rest of us should be muted, tempered and neutral in our responses. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. That is all. An allegation this serious, can and should have serious implications for the alleged party if proven. If false or a misunderstanding, irreparable harm can be made by rushing to judgment. Adjudicating this episode based upon one version of the events behind the keyboard on a message board is a disservice to all. By all means, if this parent believes what they saw they should aggressively pursue all avenues to persecute this individual.

Are we seriously concerned more for the reputation of the abuser? It's not like the gymnast came home and told the parent. The PARENT SAW IT HAPPEN. Why wouldn't the parent believe what they saw? What kind of gaslighting is going on here?

 

[Anonymous Post]

Sure, where you standing right next to her when the coach walked up and slapped her? Did you observe this from a distance? Was there activity in front of your observation? Was there a verbal exchange of words? What were those words? Was your child falling or performing an exercise? Could the distance and activity make it be construed as the coach slapping your child? Where did they slap your child? Across the face, the back, the back side, the arm? Open handed slap, back handed slap? Do you understand my point how this might be a mis-understanding?

I have no doubt you sincerely believe a coach hit your daughter. And if true, this is the most serious and vile offense, not just a coach but anyone can do, and someone like this should rot in hell. My sole point, is that no one else reading this on a message board can answer those questions that I asked above and those should be questions that are asked and answered by authorities to determine the proper course of action. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of examples of prior episodes of one side saying one thing, only to be determined after an investigation that it was a simple misunderstanding. I mean no offense to you or your personal feelings, but I do believe in the rule of law and coming to a public anonymous forum for something like this tends to bring immediate and strong emotional responses where perhaps we should wait.

I am not waiting for this problem to be so

Sure, where you standing right next to her when the coach walked up and slapped her? Did you observe this from a distance? Was there activity in front of your observation? Was there a verbal exchange of words? What were those words? Was your child falling or performing an exercise? Could the distance and activity make it be construed as the coach slapping your child? Where did they slap your child? Across the face, the back, the back side, the arm? Open handed slap, back handed slap? Do you understand my point how this might be a mis-understanding?

I have no doubt you sincerely believe a coach hit your daughter. And if true, this is the most serious and vile offense, not just a coach but anyone can do, and someone like this should rot in hell. My sole point, is that no one else reading this on a message board can answer those questions that I asked above and those should be questions that are asked and answered by authorities to determine the proper course of action. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of examples of prior episodes of one side saying one thing, only to be determined after an investigation that it was a simple misunderstanding. I mean no offense to you or your personal feelings, but I do believe in the rule of law and coming to a public anonymous forum for something like this tends to bring immediate and strong emotional responses where perhaps we should wait.

Thanks for the elaboration,

And for the suggestions. I really do appreciate you responding to my question. I do not mean to be ungrateful or mean, but I still want to do something, because I don't just want to sit around and wait instead of being able to do whatever I can to help my child and not let anything like this happen to other children.

Thanks though,
Anon

 

[Anonymous Post]

Sure, where you standing right next to her when the coach walked up and slapped her? Did you observe this from a distance? Was there activity in front of your observation? Was there a verbal exchange of words? What were those words? Was your child falling or performing an exercise? Could the distance and activity make it be construed as the coach slapping your child? Where did they slap your child? Across the face, the back, the back side, the arm? Open handed slap, back handed slap? Do you understand my point how this might be a mis-understanding?

I have no doubt you sincerely believe a coach hit your daughter. And if true, this is the most serious and vile offense, not just a coach but anyone can do, and someone like this should rot in hell. My sole point, is that no one else reading this on a message board can answer those questions that I asked above and those should be questions that are asked and answered by authorities to determine the proper course of action. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of examples of prior episodes of one side saying one thing, only to be determined after an investigation that it was a simple misunderstanding. I mean no offense to you or your personal feelings, but I do believe in the rule of law and coming to a public anonymous forum for something like this tends to bring immediate and strong emotional responses where perhaps we should wait.

You just get worse. Stop posting this BS anonymously. If this is what you really think, sign your name to it so everyone can see it.

 

[Anonymous Post]

Are we seriously concerned more for the reputation of the abuser? It's not like the gymnast came home and told the parent. The PARENT SAW IT HAPPEN. Why wouldn't the parent believe what they saw? What kind of gaslighting is going on here?

Who is gaslighting who? One just outright believes someone who anonymously posts one side of a story on a message board?! Just because the premise of the accusation is horrible, just because the gaslighting around here is, parent says bad thing about coach, one side of story presented, everyone immediately takes story as gospel fact because ya know, all gymnastics coaches/usag are bad. Can you directly answer those questions that I posed?

Geez, this is a personal matter between a parent, a child and a coach and if factual, law enforcement. Everyone else here knows nothing other than what a parent says that they saw. If you want to talk broadly about people who hit children are lower than scum, I am all here for it. If you want to go ahead and convict and send this person to prison, based upon an anonymous statement, then I guess we are living in a banana republic now.

 

[Anonymous Post]

The point of the post is not to minimize this alleged incident. The point is that collectively, the rest of us should be muted, tempered and neutral in our responses. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. That is all. An allegation this serious, can and should have serious implications for the alleged party if proven. If false or a misunderstanding, irreparable harm can be made by rushing to judgment. Adjudicating this episode based upon one version of the events behind the keyboard on a message board is a disservice to all. By all means, if this parent believes what they saw they should aggressively pursue all avenues to persecute this individual.

Stop already with the abuse apologist talk!

To the OP and witness - HUGS to both of you! I'm sorry you and your daughters had to experience/witness this horrible coach. You each made the most powerful statement ever to your kids by removing them immediately from the class.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Innocent until proven guilty is excellent as a LEGAL standard, and I would be quite vehemently opposed to depriving this coach of life/liberty/property without due process.

But we're not talking about legal standards here, we're talking about getting kids out of abusive situations. That is absolutely NOT something that should wait for due process. OP did exactly the right thing in pulling her daughter immediately, and would be doing exactly the right thing in reporting the incident to safe sport and law enforcement. Once official investigations begin, that's where due process kicks in.

Given recent history in USAG, I think "well maybe it wasn't actually abuse, maybe you didn't really see what you thought you saw, please don't ruin this coaches' reputation with allegations" is exactly the wrong response here, and honestly I find it quite disturbing to hear anybody saying such a thing in this context.

Pull the kid. Report the coach. Let the official investigatory authorities handle due process.

 

[gymgal]

Who is gaslighting who? One just outright believes someone who anonymously posts one side of a story on a message board?! Just because the premise of the accusation is horrible, just because the gaslighting around here is, parent says bad thing about coach, one side of story presented, everyone immediately takes story as gospel fact because ya know, all gymnastics coaches/usag are bad. Can you directly answer those questions that I posed?

Geez, this is a personal matter between a parent, a child and a coach and if factual, law enforcement. Everyone else here knows nothing other than what a parent says that they saw. If you want to talk broadly about people who hit children are lower than scum, I am all here for it. If you want to go ahead and convict and send this person to prison, based upon an anonymous statement, then I guess we are living in a banana republic now.

I don't get your insistence on this post not being OK for a forum like CB. It is an anonymous post, which also means that the mods/admins had to approve it. They clearly did not see a problem with it. Members are providing common sense advice for this incident. The suspected coach remains anonymous at this point so there has been no public outcry against them, calling for their job or head, sending them to prison or the like. The members here are expressing empathy toward this parent who witnessed an alarming incident involving their child and other parents who witnessed the same with similar reactions. Is it possible that it was taken out of context? Sure. Likely? No, especially given that others who witnessed it felt the same way and the child's account of negative attitudes from the coach in the past. But That is for an investigation to decide, which is exactly why this parent posted and asked for advice and why the members urged them to report this through the appropriate channels. Regardless of what actually happened, this family clearly does not feel comfortable in this gym and it is completely OK to advise them to leave the gym.

 

[Anonymous Post]

When a child is assaulted and that assault is seen with a parents two eyes (actually more than the parent) there is NO MISUNDERSTANDING, NO reaction other than to sharpen the spikes and light the torches. Any less than that is to say these young women are not worth fighting for. NO ONE, ever is allowed to SLAP a child EVER.

Thank you so much!

 

[Anonymous Post]

No way. That's some Nasser-level nonsense. If I saw a coach hit my kid, an anonymous post on a random message board would be the least of that coach's and gym's problems.

This is a parent saying "thanks for telling me to go watch, here's what I saw." If the coach, who an unkind person might suspect is you, has something to say about the incident they can step forward.

Waiting for safesport to do anything being speaking up is honestly one of the dumbest things I've seen posted online. It can take them years to rule on an allegation made by a national team member. How fast do you think they're going get to dealing with an allegation made by a nobody at some random gym?

Thank you so much!

 

[Anonymous Post]

Who is gaslighting who? One just outright believes someone who anonymously posts one side of a story on a message board?! Just because the premise of the accusation is horrible, just because the gaslighting around here is, parent says bad thing about coach, one side of story presented, everyone immediately takes story as gospel fact because ya know, all gymnastics coaches/usag are bad. Can you directly answer those questions that I posed?

Geez, this is a personal matter between a parent, a child and a coach and if factual, law enforcement. Everyone else here knows nothing other than what a parent says that they saw. If you want to talk broadly about people who hit children are lower than scum, I am all here for it. If you want to go ahead and convict and send this person to prison, based upon an anonymous statement, then I guess we are living in a banana republic now.

Again. She did NOT post a name so what does it matter?? Second yep we are taking it as gospel since a 2nd person came forward who SAW as well. But again, her smearing someone's name through the mud or whatever isn't even the case because no one knows who she's talking about besides her and the other person in this chat. Are you sure your not the coach? Because that's what it's looking like... afraid you name is going to get posted

 

[Anonymous Post]

Exactly what I'm wondering - this "innocent until proven guilty" person is the coach or someone from that gym. It's too weird otherwise! Just gross.

 

[Anonymous Post]

Sure, where you standing right next to her when the coach walked up and slapped her? Did you observe this from a distance? Was there activity in front of your observation? Was there a verbal exchange of words? What were those words? Was your child falling or performing an exercise? Could the distance and activity make it be construed as the coach slapping your child? Where did they slap your child? Across the face, the back, the back side, the arm? Open handed slap, back handed slap? Do you understand my point how this might be a mis-understanding?

there have been plenty of examples of prior episodes of one side saying one thing, only to be determined after an investigation that it was a simple misunderstanding.

something like this tends to bring immediate and strong emotional responses where perhaps we should wait.

Honestly, nevermind. I just outright disagree with you. I promise I don't mean to be disrespectful, but at this point I just comprehend the way you would act in a situation like this.
Why does the way my daughter was slapped matter? Why does it matter if she was falling or performing an exercise? Why does it matter is there were words exchanged? What matters is that she was touched by her coach in a way that isn't tolerated in any way! There are an estimated 11 witnesses, and one of them, againsts literally all odds, has even found this post and expressed that they were there too and saw it happen!

And why should I wait?? I'm not just going to stand there and let the situation escalate, with the possibility of my daughter's physical and mental health quickly going downhill. I am going to do something. In fact, I'm going to do everything, and I mean everything that I can do to make sure anything like this never happens again.
I really do hope if you saw your child be hit by a coach that you wouldn't just send them back to class thinking your eyes were playing tricks on you.

 

[Anonymous Post]

If you want to go ahead and convict and send this person to prison, based upon an anonymous statement, then I guess we are living in a banana republic now.

Who said we were sending the coach to prison? I was just looking for advice on what to tell my daughter.
Speaking of my daughter, if she didn't deny that it happened, how would could it be a misunderstanding?

Confused,
Anon