WAG Coach/Judge Parent/Judge

[vamince]

My question is: Can a USAG judge judge a meet where her own gymnasts are competing and her own daughter? Meaning she would be judging her own team and her own daughter.

If it isn't, how do you go about reporting this type of thing because it is clearly unfair.

 

[happychaos]

I hope the answer to the first part is "yes" because I have been to a few meets where a coach/judge is judging the girls she coaches.

I have no idea about judging her own daughter. It would seem like she should decline to judge her, just to avoid the appearance of favoritism.

 

[2G1B]

I don't know about for the girls; but coaches definitely judge the boys that they coach in our area. I think that it would pretty much be impossible for any coach to be a judge if they weren't allowed to judge meets that their teams compete in.

I'll also say that one of my DS's coaches has judged him and he definitely doesn't give him any leeway. In fact he has at times judged my son more harshly that likely other judges would have (according to coaches from other teams who we are friends with).

Also for girls, there are 2 judges. If there were some huge discrepancy then it would be a flag I would assume. I really doubt that someone would risk their reputation just to help a kid or team for a single meet.

 

[Gymsanity]

My question is: Can a USAG judge judge a meet where her own gymnasts are competing and her own daughter? Meaning she would be judging her own team and her own daughter.

If it isn't, how do you go about reporting this type of thing because it is clearly unfair.

Sad, but true. I hate it, as 100% of our local judges are affiliated one way or another (unfortunately, just not with me!) and they are at every local meet within three hours from us. They always tell me that they judge their own teams and children harder than everyone else's... (what's that strange sound? did my BS alarm just go off!!!??) Anyway, we've gotten tired of it and have spent a whole lot more time going to out of state meets. Not sure if it is coincidence or not, but we won first place team at all levels in 4 out of 5 away meets, and second in the other one.......
PS. not bagging on the judges, as that is the rules, and I know that it must be very difficult for them to do that. I have no doubt that they try their best, but sometimes it hard to overcome being human. I know I would never want to be put in the position of judging my own kids.

 

[fuzi]

Yes, that is allowed. On the two judge panel, the affiliated judge (judge that is a parent/coach/ext.) must be the secondary judge. It happens a lot.

 

[vamince]

I hope the answer to the first part is "yes" because I have been to a few meets where a coach/judge is judging the girls she coaches.

I have no idea about judging her own daughter. It would seem like she should decline to judge her, just to avoid the appearance of favoritism.

I too think s

Sad, but true. I hate it, as 100% of our local judges are affiliated one way or another (unfortunately, just not with me!) and they are at every local meet within three hours from us. They always tell me that they judge their own teams and children harder than everyone else's... (what's that strange sound? did my BS alarm just go off!!!??) Anyway, we've gotten tired of it and have spent a whole lot more time going to out of state meets. Not sure if it is coincidence or not, but we won first place team at all levels in 4 out of 5 away meets, and second in the other one.......
PS. not bagging on the judges, as that is the rules, and I know that it must be very difficult for them to do that. I have no doubt that they try their best, but sometimes it hard to overcome being human. I know I would never want to be put in the position of judging my own kids.

I just don't see how it is "fair". But, this being my daughters first year on team, I'm learning lots of things are not fair and this sport can be very political (at least in this area).

 

[kandkfunk]

I doubt very much that most judges are showing favoritism toward gymnasts they know. In WAG, there are usually 2 judges for every event and the judges must be within a certain margin of each other or they have to figure it out. The majority of judges in our area are affiliated with a gym and I never really see any favoritism. The top judge in our state (Brevet) also owns one of the top gyms. I never see her score her gymnasts more favorably. Her gym hosts several meets per year and she is usually the head judge in each session. If coaches didn't judge, we probably wouldn't have enough judges in some areas to fill a meet. Judges are human but they are also professionals who put a lot of time and effort into this sport.

 

[Gymsanity]

I doubt very much that most judges are showing favoritism toward gymnasts they know. In WAG, there are usually 2 judges for every event and the judges must be within a certain margin of each other or they have to figure it out. The majority of judges in our area are affiliated with a gym and I never really see any favoritism. The top judge in our state (Brevet) also owns one of the top gyms. I never see her score her gymnasts more favorably. Her gym hosts several meets per year and she is usually the head judge in each session. If coaches didn't judge, we probably wouldn't have enough judges in some areas to fill a meet. Judges are human but they are also professionals who put a lot of time and effort into this sport.

I very much want to believe as you do, but in a sport where winning and losing can be determined by one quarter of one tenth of a point, it wouldn't take very much indiscretion to make all the difference.........
As I said above, I believe that it must be a terribly difficult situation for them, and one that I would never intentionally put myself into. If nothing else, I would continually question myself as to whether I was 100% true to myself 100% of the time. No thanks.

 

[vamince]

I so want to believe that this coach/parent/judge would NOT want to be put in that position, but seeing her brag on certain social media sites that she is excited/nervous to judge her own gymnasts but also her own daughters very first meet (she just turned of age to compete), who knows.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

there are a shortage of Judges as well as coaches.

 

[Natasha]

I think sometimes if coaches are judging their own gymnasts they can actually be harder on them as they already know the routines and know the gymnasts weaknesses and where they usually make faults.
I can say I would never want to be in the position of having to judge my own daughter.

 

[Faith]

Here each club has to provide a judge for any competition they enter, or pay a fine. So judging panels are usually made up of judges from competing clubs, and paid independent judges.

 

[All Chalked Up]

This is very common in my area. Do I like it? No. Do I have to live with it? Yes.

I have been to meets where coaches judge their own athletes and children. I have been to meets where I have seen a gymnast change out of her competition suit, throw on a blazer and judge the next session. I competed against a gymnast whose sisters were judging ON EVERY EVENT.

There was a girl whom I competed against one meet and the next meet she went down a level. Guess who was my bars judge?!

These are COMMON occurrences. Nothing makes me angrier!

 

[Quadqueen]

I've never seen it happen here. Sounds like it's not uncommon though.

 

[gymdog]

Not a big deal, just the reality unless everyone wants to become a judge so there are more choices for each meet.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I have seen a couple of situations where the judge's "benefit of the doubt" going to a certain team or teams is obvious, even to us parents. I will say that it is not completely unique to gymnastics. During a certain national teams tryout process (in a different sport) just last year in our state there was some blatant ridiculous favoritism, with the coach in charge at one of the levels picking their own athlete for a certain position, when there were clearly several others were better. Unfortunately, that athlete got clobbered at the next level of tryouts and then there were none (from our state) at that position...
In my line of work we are forbidden from getting ourselves in any situation where there is a conflict of interest OR a potential appearance of conflict of interest. In the latter example, approval from our legal area is required. Why? Because many people really don't take the "high road" when there is a confict of interest.

I have seen this at some meets, and it is very frustrating, but unfortunately seems to be a bit rampant in gymnastics, so you just gotta try to ignore it. The other poster is right, in a sport where tenths of a point make a difference, it can impact results. Try to ignore it.

 

[Seeker]

Yes, I have seen this as well...not necessarily parent or coach judging their own team/children (although I am sure it happens), but certain gyms getting the benefit of the doubt or the host team winning all levels by a landslide. My DD has a recent example of performing her floor routine basically exactly the same two weekends in a row. The point differential in her floor score was .625 (both out of 10 start value, one high 8 score, one a mid-9). So yeah....judging is definitely subjective and all judges are human and carry their own biases, whether they realize it or not. And some just don't play fair or take the high road...just the way it is. We try not to focus on scores so much, but it is a head-scratcher sometimes as to why there is such a difference from one meet to the next.

 

[Learning Parent GB]

Here each club has to provide a judge for any competition they enter, or pay a fine. So judging panels are usually made up of judges from competing clubs, and paid independent judges.

We actually find that this can be hard on the related gymnast. We have a gymnast who has had to have her much older sister judge her on her weakest event. It never occurred to me that the judge would be unfair, but I did notice how much more nervous it made the gymnast and how she ended up losing points by letting those nerves show in her routine.

 

[Marge Simpson]

As parents, we all have it in our power to address perceived or actual unfair practices in gymnastics judging, especially at the compulsory levels. We can study, take the judges' exam, and spend our weekends on the road judging without bias. Or in my personal case, study for the exam, watch routines closely and score independently, then conclude that while as in any sport there are WTF moments, for the most part the placements are overall fair. Then raise a glass to those willing to take on a pretty much thankless job!

 

[kandkfunk]

I love it Marge Simpson! My DD and I are both studying to become judges. I won't judge her because she's an optional, but I don't foresee an issue with judging the compulsory gymnasts from her gym. I love gymnastics and sports in general. I love learning new things and I'm looking forward to the process. This is my way of staying involved in the sport long after her journey is finished and preparing myself for when she is an adult and I no longer have to fill my time as a mommy taxi.