WAG Deduction on floor for "cheerleading"????

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4th to 2nd is sorta a big deal...

Big picture in what should be a long gymnastic career at Level 10 and beyond, not really.....

Simone Biles and Aly Raisman (to name just a couple) had plenty of those kind of finishes. And I would think kind of common once you get to that level.

Any given Sunday or judge.
 
I've seen this routine IRL. It's delightful and the OP's DD has tons of talent. But just because you are an awesome L10 with elite aspirations doesn't mean you are immune to criticism. Two adjectives I had to describe parts of the routine were 'boxy' and 'mechanical'. This shows up more in person compared vs video. I'm guessing the judge saw the same thing and used a different word to describe her dance. Not really a big deal considering we are at the end of the season and OP knows by now how her DD scores with the routine. Personally I would leave it up to the coach to decide if a change is needed and not worry about it. As a side note --I do wonder about OP's intent posting this thread...sometimes her posts seem like a thinly veiled attempt to get compliments. Also, I find it interesting how the OP commented that a 0.1 increase in score would have changed her placement. Yes, she would have gone from 4th on floor to an 2nd place tie. AA would have stayed the same as she tied for 3rd and with an additional 0.1 she would have simply placed 3rd.
You are on the OP's thread, you could ask her what her intent was, don't have to just wonder. She is right there. And the "I find it interesting how the OP commented" just reads like two parents gossiping in the stands about another parent who is sitting two rows ahead. Again, the OP is right there.
 
I wonder if the judge meant that the acting and facial expressions distracts from the gymnastics itself. I just watched one of her floor routines, and she is amazing. But I can see how a judge who doesn't like that style, can't unsee it. If your daughter loves her routine, don't change a thing. It's just that one judge this one time.
But you can get deducted for not performing in your routine too. Seems too ambiguous.
 
I've seen this routine IRL. It's delightful and the OP's DD has tons of talent. But just because you are an awesome L10 with elite aspirations doesn't mean you are immune to criticism. Two adjectives I had to describe parts of the routine were 'boxy' and 'mechanical'. This shows up more in person compared vs video. I'm guessing the judge saw the same thing and used a different word to describe her dance. Not really a big deal considering we are at the end of the season and OP knows by now how her DD scores with the routine. Personally I would leave it up to the coach to decide if a change is needed and not worry about it. As a side note --I do wonder about OP's intent posting this thread...sometimes her posts seem like a thinly veiled attempt to get compliments. Also, I find it interesting how the OP commented that a 0.1 increase in score would have changed her placement. Yes, she would have gone from 4th on floor to an 2nd place tie. AA would have stayed the same as she tied for 3rd and with an additional 0.1 she would have simply placed 3rd.
Wow, I didn't interpret the original question in this way at all. I don't see someone fishing for compliments, I see an excited parent who has a talented kid with a real chance of placing very well at regionals. In a sport that is sometimes decided by .005 points (or less!), the temptation to grab an extra .1 by altering a facial expression is totally understandable.

To the OP, I'm sure by now that your gymmie and her coach have figured out a plan, good luck to her! (And, coming from a mom who absolutely films, and brags about, every new skill my daughter learns, I enjoy your posts about your daughter. It's exciting and inspirational to get glimpses of her journey on this forum. )
 
The bottom line is these things will happen. Everyone messes up or gets deducted somewhere so a tenth could come from anywhere, maybe 5th place had a two tenth deduction and your daughter might have placed even lower in an alternate reality. Sit back and enjoy the ride or you risk going down the wrong path.

You really shouldn't be analyzing these deductions down to the tenth particularly at this point in your daughter's gymnastics journey. Please understand I say this out of concern as a former gymnast. Then again the coach really shouldn't be sharing information about one tenth deductions. But if they do I recommend you laugh it off, suggest to your daughter you loved watching her routine and then make plans for lunch.

Either something was misinterpreted or the judge went rogue. Personally I wouldn't change it based off one meet and one judge saying something I wasn't really sure made sense.

I'm sure your daughter's routine is wonderful and she has improved a lot over the season. I know she is destined for greater things than where she is in gymnastics now at this moment, and that is the most exciting thing about the confidence and skills she is gaining every day.
 
I also believe that a judge could make up a bs deduction. It happens. But sometimes you just have to shake your head in wonder about some people and realize that judges for states, regionals, etc are selected more carefully.
 
I also believe that a judge could make up a bs deduction. It happens. But sometimes you just have to shake your head in wonder about some people and realize that judges for states, regionals, etc are selected more carefully.
We once had a judge at a meet (20+ years experience apparently) who was flashing "impossible" Start Values for the Xcel Platinums and crazy low scores (My YG should have had either a 9.7 or 9.2 SV and she was given a 7.9 SV). She yelled at a coach from another team for questioning the SV (and for the first time ever in a LOCAL Y competition, DEMANDED that coaches fill out the "official" inquiry form ... and it had to be COMPLETE ... to inquire about anything). In the past, we had been told to just ask ... or do an informal inquiry on a piece of notebook paper. The coach she yelled at is very experienced. She is considered to be heading the one of the BEST programs in our State and has been doing it for years and years.

I was racking my brain trying to figure out how she came up with that SV (which she also gave some of the L7s). Then it dawned on me... she was going by DIAMOND requirements! When HC and I talked about it on Monday, it made perfect sense... None of our XP had a B skill on bars (at least that they got credit for)... so they lost 1.6 there (.6 for each missing B and 1.0 for missing 2 SR) ... AND they didnt cast to 45º ... so that was another .5 off the SV.
 
We once had a judge at a meet (20+ years experience apparently) who was flashing "impossible" Start Values for the Xcel Platinums and crazy low scores (My YG should have had either a 9.7 or 9.2 SV and she was given a 7.9 SV). She yelled at a coach from another team for questioning the SV (and for the first time ever in a LOCAL Y competition, DEMANDED that coaches fill out the "official" inquiry form ... and it had to be COMPLETE ... to inquire about anything). In the past, we had been told to just ask ... or do an informal inquiry on a piece of notebook paper. The coach she yelled at is very experienced. She is considered to be heading the one of the BEST programs in our State and has been doing it for years and years.

I was racking my brain trying to figure out how she came up with that SV (which she also gave some of the L7s). Then it dawned on me... she was going by DIAMOND requirements! When HC and I talked about it on Monday, it made perfect sense... None of our XP had a B skill on bars (at least that they got credit for)... so they lost 1.6 there (.6 for each missing B and 1.0 for missing 2 SR) ... AND they didnt cast to 45º ... so that was another .5 off the SV.

At states this year, my son got a terrible score on pbars for a not-so-terrible routine. His coach asked informally and got a not totally satisfactory answer. He continued to mull it over during awards and checked in with the judge again. Turns out the guy had scored him as a JD rather than a JO and forgot to add in 1.5 points for group requirements and I guess mis-scored a couple other things. At that point it was just one of those "oh well" things -- we know what the score should have been even though it will always be wrong in the official record. It's a kind of bizarre coincidence -- this is the third time he's experienced a .5 or greater error in the wrong direction in a pbar score at states or regionals. (He did once get a .3-.5 error in the happy direction at a regular meet, so I feel like the universe still owes him something, lol.)
 
At states this year, my son got a terrible score on pbars for a not-so-terrible routine. His coach asked informally and got a not totally satisfactory answer. He continued to mull it over during awards and checked in with the judge again. Turns out the guy had scored him as a JD rather than a JO and forgot to add in 1.5 points for group requirements and I guess mis-scored a couple other things. At that point it was just one of those "oh well" things -- we know what the score should have been even though it will always be wrong in the official record. It's a kind of bizarre coincidence -- this is the third time he's experienced a .5 or greater error in the wrong direction in a pbar score at states or regionals. (He did once get a .3-.5 error in the happy direction at a regular meet, so I feel like the universe still owes him something, lol.)
That us really unfortunate. This is one if the problems with them adding JD. It have heard of it happening too often. I assume it happens when JD and a JO level are in the same session. There needs to be some better way for the judges to keep the levels straight.
 
That us really unfortunate. This is one if the problems with them adding JD. It have heard of it happening too often. I assume it happens when JD and a JO level are in the same session. There needs to be some better way for the judges to keep the levels straight.
Maybe different colored cards? As in the cards that says the gymnast number.
 
ouch. more drama

4th to 2nd is sorta a big deal...

I can't read people's intent but the thread brought a lot of interesting discussion regarding judging artistic merits of a routine.
Wellll, in one of the poster's defense, there have been a lot, a lot, a lot of posts. And I do get the excitement and all that, but it's a hard, hard sport, and it is just a little much sometimes. And quibbling over 0.1 for "cheerleading" seems just a teensy bit over the top to me. Assuming she makes it to Nationals, which probably is not going to hinge exclusively on this floor routine, I highly doubt this deduction will be a significant issue. She is a terrific gymnast and has been extremely successful! You can't control every judge's preference, so I would move on.
 
If the OP can't brag and question here, where can she? Let's try to be a safe place, with grace and excitement and experience all rolled into one. That's what makes CB so great! :)

To the original question, this just simply sounds to me like the judge didn't like her particular style of floor. I watched a video of her routine - it's fun and upbeat and bouncy. I'm guessing the sharp movements and facial expressions just didn't sit well with the judge, maybe he/she thought they looked too forced - like you see in All Star Cheer (no shade, I promise, just making a comparison). I couldn't really make out her facial expressions from the video, so I couldn't say one way or the other. But obviously, we've seen very fun, bouncy routines score very well (hello Simone), so I don't think there's any need to alter. You do you.
 
If the OP can't brag and question here, where can she? Let's try to be a safe place, with grace and excitement and experience all rolled into one. That's what makes CB so great! :)

To the original question, this just simply sounds to me like the judge didn't like her particular style of floor. I watched a video of her routine - it's fun and upbeat and bouncy. I'm guessing the sharp movements and facial expressions just didn't sit well with the judge, maybe he/she thought they looked too forced - like you see in All Star Cheer (no shade, I promise, just making a comparison). I couldn't really make out her facial expressions from the video, so I couldn't say one way or the other. But obviously, we've seen very fun, bouncy routines score very well (hello Simone), so I don't think there's any need to alter. You do you.
Agree! I think it can go both ways as far as being a safe place to express everyone’s thoughts and experiences. I do think a little self awareness can go a long way! Just me being a little judgey, but expressing my own experience. :)
 
she seemed genuinely curious about potential deduction for "cheerleading" rather than any other potential 0.1 deductions. it lead to an interesting discussion regarding judging...

even if it were a brag post, I also have no problem with her posting just as I have no problem with lovofu posting about Sophia's progress or any other parents' posts about their DD's achievements. I mean, isn't that part of the appeal of this message board since we all have a common interest? Not very many other places to talk about JO gymnastics! so, OP, please keep on posting!


I've seen this routine IRL. It's delightful and the OP's DD has tons of talent. But just because you are an awesome L10 with elite aspirations doesn't mean you are immune to criticism. Two adjectives I had to describe parts of the routine were 'boxy' and 'mechanical'. This shows up more in person compared vs video. I'm guessing the judge saw the same thing and used a different word to describe her dance. Not really a big deal considering we are at the end of the season and OP knows by now how her DD scores with the routine. Personally I would leave it up to the coach to decide if a change is needed and not worry about it. As a side note --I do wonder about OP's intent posting this thread...sometimes her posts seem like a thinly veiled attempt to get compliments. Also, I find it interesting how the OP commented that a 0.1 increase in score would have changed her placement. Yes, she would have gone from 4th on floor to an 2nd place tie. AA would have stayed the same as she tied for 3rd and with an additional 0.1 she would have simply placed 3rd.
Big picture in what should be a long gymnastic career at Level 10 and beyond, not really.....

Simone Biles and Aly Raisman (to name just a couple) had plenty of those kind of finishes. And I would think kind of common once you get to that level.

Any given Sunday or judge.
Wellll, in one of the poster's defense, there have been a lot, a lot, a lot of posts. And I do get the excitement and all that, but it's a hard, hard sport, and it is just a little much sometimes. And quibbling over 0.1 for "cheerleading" seems just a teensy bit over the top to me. Assuming she makes it to Nationals, which probably is not going to hinge exclusively on this floor routine, I highly doubt this deduction will be a significant issue. She is a terrific gymnast and has been extremely successful! You can't control every judge's preference, so I would move on.
 
she seemed genuinely curious about potential deduction for "cheerleading" rather than any other potential 0.1 deductions. it lead to an interesting discussion regarding judging...
I get that. And yes when threads wander it leads to some interesting things.

I was addressing your statement that going from 2nd to 4th on an event is a big deal.

Big picture wise it is not. That's called stuff happens. It will happen a lot over a gymnasts time in the sport and even more so at L10 and higher. And for much less then 0.1

While it would be nice to know what "cheerleading" meant. And I haven't seen the routine, just basing it on my experience with cheerleading. Cheerleaders play to the audience. So I would think the judge thought there was too much playing to the audience. I would think the judge would preferred less focus on the crowd.

I wouldn't go changing a routine for one judges opinion on personal artistic choice. It be like a judge telling my kid to add more cute. Not gonna happen. Not who she is. When she gets the I like peppy judge, its not gonna be as good a day as when she gets the judge who likes her style.

On a personal level, If I were talking with the judge I would of asked them to clarify. I'm not even sure why the coach would of brought it up to the gymnast unless he/she had a specific correction or change in mind. Why get into the kids head for something nearly impossible to "fix"? Your cast needs more height is a definite and definable thing. You are rushing you need to slow it down or you are over doing your movements. That's fixable. Its too serious or cute what does that mean? How do you fix it? You can't. So really the only thing to say if you say anything at all is not all judges like everyone's style. It happens. Of course I would imagine by the time you get to L10 everyone would know that.
 
Crud edit timed out. Quick look difference between 1st and 3rd on bars was .05. It happens, alot.
 
she seemed genuinely curious about potential deduction for "cheerleading" rather than any other potential 0.1 deductions. it lead to an interesting discussion regarding judging...

even if it were a brag post, I also have no problem with her posting just as I have no problem with lovofu posting about Sophia's progress or any other parents' posts about their DD's achievements. I mean, isn't that part of the appeal of this message board since we all have a common interest? Not very many other places to talk about JO gymnastics! so, OP, please keep on posting!
I agree. Very few level 10 parents post their gymnasts video's or talk about their meets and progress on the main board already. Criticizing the posts of one of the few that do as thinly veiled attempts to get compliments just seems antithetical to the purpose of this board. The more threads the better! I hope she and other posters aren't discouraged from doing so in the future. Bring all those posts and vids on!
 
I agree. Very few level 10 parents post their gymnasts video's or talk about their meets and progress on the main board already. Criticizing the posts of one of the few that do as thinly veiled attempts to get compliments just seems antithetical to the purpose of this board. The more threads the better! I hope she and other posters aren't discouraged from doing so in the future. Bring all those posts and vids on!
Right?! I love seeing videos of upper level gymnasts! My kid isn't there yet so unless they're posted on the main boards I don't get to see them. I watch every video posted in awe, these athletes are amazing!
 

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