WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[kecks]

you know, the majority of sexual abuse incidents happen at home or at beloved and trusted friends/relatives. just look at the numbers. strangers, doctors, teachers and coaches are only a very small part of the problem. the problem is a rape culture, that worries about "modesty" because "men are predators", that expects girls (and women too) to shut up and be cute and obedient and very much helpless (maybe you can giggle, but that's it), so they can be saved by a strong male figure. so, yes, action has to be taken as in "no gymnast is alone in a room with an adult not being the parent", but a cultural change is of much bigger importance if you want to change the future in a way that actually produces results as in "fewer kids get abused".

 

[John]

Change the culture sounds like a catch phrase. I believe Abuse happens in cycles, abused people abuse. I have a hard time believing that a young girl being a good athlete is to blame for abuse. Respecting your coach and doing what the coach asks in preparation to do death defying skills is what every gymnast should do while in the gym. I can't imagine a gymnast saying coach I don't like your preparation for the double layout I think it's better if I do it my way.

With that said, Maybe you can offer some ideas or more specific thoughts. I'd like somethings to think about, I'd like my daughter to have a life with zero abuse. What do you beleive as a father I can do to incubate the necessary traits to keep her safe.

 

[kecks]

teach her that she as a woman can be anything she wants to be. do not give her over to her future husband like she was male property changing owners. let her walk the aisle alone. do not treat her as "your princess". encourage her to be something else besides cute and adorable and focused on her looks id she shows desire to be something else. do not tell her "that is for boys". compliment her for her brain or her gymnastics or anything else but her appearance. enable her to look beyond gender roles. do not teach her that males are "predators" or that you as her father have to protect her form other (younger) males. teach her about sex and gender, teach her about sexual orientation, teach her about "my body is mine" (no "give grandma a hug" if she does not want to), teach her about contraception... the list goes on. teach her to speak up for herself, of course in an age approproate way. if you want to know how to that in detail i suggest ressources on authoritative parenting. most important: trust her, give her space to be herself.

 

[profmom]

John, your daughter is almost certain to experience sexist behavior targeting her in her life. At some point it's likely to undermine her emotional stability, cause a poor health outcome, and cost her in economic terms. IMHO, teaching assertiveness and fostering confidence are very important in raising a girl who's equipped to deal with the realities she will encounter.

Here are some specific things you can do to make a better world for your daughter:

• Raise your sons to respect women and treat them as equals. I'm not talking about opening doors. I am talking about getting them to think of girls as equals and partners, not objects to be pursued and desired. Show them that a real man does dishes and the laundry without being asked. A real man adds to his work calendar the task of scheduling his offspring's annual pediatric exam. A real man can schedule a playdate or plan a birthday party. If you have both sons and daughters, pay attention to who's getting nagged to do what household tasks.
  
• Model respectful and egalitarian treatment of women for all the young men in your life whom you encounter and influence.
  
• Speak up when you hear sexist talk in all male environments. We women aren't there to call people on their crap. You have to do it.
  
• If you're involved in making decisions about women at work, look carefully at these decisions. Are women getting offered less when they come in? Not being considered for the "harder" jobs because the company knows they are mothers? How's your family leave policy? It's amazing to me how many companies pinch pennies on maternity and early childhood leave and let excellent employees walk out the door who could have been real rainmakers five years down the road with just a little bit more accommodation.
• Look at your own state policies and try to improve them. My state just raised the age for marriage so that predators can no longer escape legal trouble by convincing the parents of a child that marriage is a solution.
• Support organizations that build and maintain good foster care. So many children of all genders and gender identities experience abuse in foster care. That's a great place to start if you want to break the cycle of abuse.

 

[kecks]

edit: of course the same goes for boys or anyone in between on the spectrum.

 

[profmom]

Once upon a time, there was a farmer who had a henhouse. He was very frustrated because the nearby foxes kept coming in the night to take his hens. After losing a few hens, he took out all of his tools and wood and reinforced the henhouse. That very night, his best egg layer disappeared because the foxes found a way in by digging under the floor. Determined, he installed a proud new fence around the henhouse. The foxes quickly learned to climb the fence. He took to training his hens to fly with daily exercises to strengthen their wings. To no avail, for the foxes could leap. He tried to armor them, but the foxes were still able to break their necks.

Finally in despair, he went to his rebbe. "Rebbe!" he exclaimed. "I have done everything to protect my hens and keep them safe, and still, the foxes take them away in the night! What am I to do?"

The rebbe stroked his beard and thought for a moment. Finally, he replied, "Have you done anything about the foxes?"

 

[John]

Those are great points and ideas. It makes me feel better. I am a divorced dad who has had to assume almost all patenting duties. Play dates birthday parties buying underwear and bras. I have always done all house work.

I am director of Operations and I hire the best person for the job but lately I find I prefer women employees.

Home life I think a husband and wife should be best friends equals. When one takes advantage of the other that relationship will fail. As did my marriage.

Lastly something I beleive we should do, teach our kids how to be friends with eachother. It appears to me that best friendships are a thing of the past. Kids jump Friend to friend instead of learning how a friendship and a relationship should work. A best friend is a training for a partner and family. I think we let competition of the modern world ruin our kids ability to be best friends.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

(Double posting because there are two similar threads)

Everyone has a right to their opinion about Aly or Gabby. Everyone has a right to their opinion about what they feel is appropriate for themselves or their kids to wear. But what it comes down to is not an opinion but a fact:

No person should do anything sexual to another person against that person’s will. At all. Ever. No matter what.

 

[CoachMeg]

I believe Abuse happens in cycles, abused people abuse.

This mentality is all wrong. And I can cite research if you'd like. Not trying to be condescending, truly, but it just really rubs me the wrong way when people state this myth as a fact. When it is false. Research shows that many abusers were abused as children; however, most kids that were abused do not go on to be abusers. So, your statement is flipped. I just know MANY people that were abused as children, including my husband, who did not go on to be abusers. This blanket statement can be damaging to survivors of abuse.

 

[John]

Did not mean to offend. Possibly I should have added more. I believe that every event has consequences. Those consequences are usually one of two things. The individual either embraces the event or does the 180 degree opposite.

 

[NutterButter]

This mentality is all wrong. And I can cite research if you'd like. Not trying to be condescending, truly, but it just really rubs me the wrong way when people state this myth as a fact. When it is false. Research shows that many abusers were abused as children; however, most kids that were abused do not go on to be abusers. So, your statement is flipped. I just know MANY people that were abused as children, including my husband, who did not go on to be abusers. This blanket statement can be damaging to survivors of abuse.

Thank you for saying this. As one who has been abused, the comment put me off too.

 

[tucktwisttumble]

So, I am also a part of a cheerleading forum (the fierce board - if any one is familiar with it) - And this has also been heavily discussed in the "artistic gymnastics" thread.

There was one poster (I don't have sources other for then what I read) who said that Bela/Martha & Jordyn Weibers coach (Who walked in on a 'treatment') were all aware of the abuse that was happening. & there are currently law suits filed against Bela and Martha in regards to this.

Has anyone read or heard anything like this?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

So, I am also a part of a cheerleading forum (the fierce board - if any one is familiar with it) - And this has also been heavily discussed in the "artistic gymnastics" thread.

There was one poster (I don't have sources other for then what I read) who said that Bela/Martha & Jordyn Weibers coach (Who walked in on a 'treatment') were all aware of the abuse that was happening. & there are currently law suits filed against Bela and Martha in regards to this.

Has anyone read or heard anything like this?

FALSE!

 

[GymFan96]

FALSE!

Yeah I don't get why many people seem to think nearly every adult in USAG knew about and "protected" Nassar. What would be the motive for that? Some people are determined to believe that every adult in USAG is an evil kid-hating monster.

 

[sce]

Yeah I don't get why many people seem to think nearly every adult in USAG knew about and "protected" Nassar. What would be the motive for that? Some people are determined to believe that every adult in USAG is an evil kid-hating monster.

I agree that it is unlikely that they knew what was going on. But I think many were involved in a culture that created the opportunity. I can't imagine for 2 decade, no one knew he was seeing girls alone in their rooms. That should not have been allowed. Also, the girls were afraid to speak up for fear of retribution. Nassar was also able to so easily groom the girls, because others made it an environment such that they desired an adult who was nice to them and snuck them "forbidden" items. Also, a culture where they feared losing their spot on the team if they spoke up.

 

[txgymfan]

^^^ Yes! Allowing any physician to be alone with a minor was wrong. For twenty years no doctor has treated me alone for anything more than a cold. He should not have been allowed to be alone with the athletes. They prevent coaches from coming near the athletes quarters, why didn't they do the same for all of the staff?

The fear of retribution has been written about / discussed since before Nassar even came into the picture. He is a parasite who found an environment to thrive in. Athletes competed through injury and snuck food. If they didn't need an ally on site then it would have been more difficult ( not necessarily impossible) for him to abuse young women.

 

[gymdog]

FALSE!

Those accusations may be false (I do not know) but not all of that information is. It is incomplete but yes a victim has firsthand alleged knowledge of one of those parties, and Martha was named in one victim's lawsuit (alleging that the culture and environment at the ranch allowed the abuse to occur). I don't know if this lawsuit has been settled or dropped since it was filed a year ago.

 

[GymFan96]

I think one of the biggest things was that the girls felt no one would believe them and I can see why. The Michigan State coach asked her gymnasts to sign a card for Nassar after he was accused. He still received over 2,000 votes for school board after being accused. One of my former coaches went on his Facebook page and wrote him a note saying "Much love, I support you Larry!" He had everyone incredibly fooled. So I can see why girls would feel like speaking up was useless. I wonder if my coach believes it now that McKayla, Aly, and Gabby have spoken.

 

[Taxidriver]

I believe Abuse happens in cycles, abused people abuse.

Whilst I believe those who are abusers are statistically more likely to of been abused, I think you will find that the majority of people who have been do not go on to abuse, I think you would be surprised at the number of people who you will know / have met who have been abused but that you have no idea.

Respecting your coach and doing what the coach asks in preparation to do death defying skills is what every gymnast should do while in the gym. I can't imagine a gymnast saying coach I don't like your preparation for the double layout I think it's better if I do it my way.

Ok I think there is a big difference in teaching a gymnast or any child to speak up for themselves and say I don’t feel comfortable with what you are asking me to do and a gymnast saying I don’t want to do it your way I want to do it my way.
I teach all my kids both my own and those I do youth work with that it is ok to tell an adult they don’t feel comfortable with what they are being asked to do but that doesn’t mean just because they are being asked to do something that is boring or hard work they can just say no.
I believe when we teach children to do everything an adult asks of them is when we open children up to the possibility of being abused.
I was sexually abused as a child and it wasn’t until I was an adult that I realised I had been abused as I was just doing as I was told and I was taught as a child you don’t question adults you just do as you are told also that sex and intimate touching most definitely were not subjects that you spoke about.

 

[tucktwisttumble]

FALSE!

Again, I hope it was very clear that this was hear-say. I thought it seemed fishy, but I also have not followed the story as closely as some people here might have. Hence me asking.

Thanks for the confirmation