WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[sce]

You are always entitled to your own point of view. My point was simply helping someone should be based on the need for help and nothing more. I see nothing wrong with a man helping a woman or a woman helping a man or two women helping each other no matter the race Etc. Race does indeed contribute to who we are. But maybe all races should attempt to learn more about eachother. Don't judge until you have walked in someone else's shoes.

I agree that we should all be choosing to learn. I feel it is the opposite of ignoring. Listening and learning allows for compassion and understanding.

 

[Sasha]

Maybe not. Maybe any sex human with hands full should be helped by another human regardless of the helpers sex? I'd surely appreciate any help.

That is what we were saying. People should help (including holding doors for, etc) people.

The state of needing or wanting help at any point should not be defined or assumed by one's gender.

 

[bookworm]

http://eng.gymnovosti.com/scherbo-im-used-to-getting-what-i-want-from-women/

The overall sentiment in this interview from both Scherbo and his mother is just disturbing and honestly a picture of what is a huge part of this pervasive culture!! Just....gross.

And his MOTHER comments about her son's sexual needs?! Talk about gross and disturbing...

 

[amiandjim]

And his MOTHER comments about her son's sexual needs?! Talk about gross and disturbing...

Exactly!

 

[txgymfan]

Does anyone know how the families at his gum are reacting? Regarding the interview, ick, ick, ick. Especially from his mom..

 

[bookworm]

This whole thread brings to mind an article I read recently about how males and females respond to the question "what do you do to protect yourself against being assaulted?" And the males in the group kinda looked at each other and didn't say much or chuckled....the females conversely, had a list 30 deep (walk in groups, carry your keys in your hand, park in well lit areas, ask for an escort home, never drink a drink you didn't ask for or see poured, never leave a friend alone....you get the drift)... the point of the article being that women see themselves as vulnerable to assault by virtue of being female and men do not.....

 

[bookworm]

Does anyone know how the families at his gum are reacting? Regarding the interview, ick, ick, ick. Especially from his mom..

If it were me, vomiting and showering...and removing my kid from that kind of mindset...

 

[bogwoppit]

This whole thread brings to mind an article I read recently about how males and females respond to the question "what do you do to protect yourself against being assaulted?" And the males in the group kinda looked at each other and didn't say much or chuckled....the females conversely, had a list 30 deep (walk in groups, carry your keys in your hand, park in well lit areas, ask for an escort home, never drink a drink you didn't ask for or see poured, never leave a friend alone....you get the drift)... the point of the article being that women see themselves as vulnerable to assault by virtue of being female and men do not.....

I posted that on FB and many of my male friends were pissed off with it! Lord how do you get through to them that this is our life.

 

[bookworm]

I posted that on FB and many of my male friends were pissed off with it! Lord how do you get through to them that this is our life.

I hear you! When my husband is traveling overseas for business, I leave the lights on all over the house and the TV on 24/7, even when I'm not home...

 

[amiandjim]

Sadly, I don’t think many families will leave the gym if their kids are “doing well.”
Look at Twistars....Nassar worked there, a gymnast stated he walked in while Nassar was “adjusting her vaginally for back pain and Geddert said “your back must really hurt.” He hired Kathy Klages to fill in while he was on vacation. Yet, he still has a successful gym.
I don’t get it at all and if it were me, I would be running for the hills with my DD. But, people still think “it won’t happen to me!”

I cannot for the life of me think of any valid reason a parent would allow their child to attend that gym...but they do. I’m afraid it will be the same with Scherbo’s.

 

[ladybird]

This whole thread brings to mind an article I read recently about how males and females respond to the question "what do you do to protect yourself against being assaulted?" And the males in the group kinda looked at each other and didn't say much or chuckled....the females conversely, had a list 30 deep (walk in groups, carry your keys in your hand, park in well lit areas, ask for an escort home, never drink a drink you didn't ask for or see poured, never leave a friend alone....you get the drift)... the point of the article being that women see themselves as vulnerable to assault by virtue of being female and men do not.....

I LOVED that article. I would hope it breaks the hearts of those who finally understand. Even now that I am in my mid-40s, I got so sad/angry the other day when I purposely walked in the pouring rain to avoid a group of men who were gathered by the nearest exit to get to my car. I don’t know if I was angry at myself for being weak/afraid of them or what. I feel like at his time in my life I should be more confident and be above all of that. And this was a few weeks before all that Weinstein information came to light.

 

[Faith]

Sadly, I don’t think many families will leave the gym if their kids are “doing well.”
Look at Twistars....Nassar worked there, a gymnast stated he walked in while Nassar was “adjusting her vaginally for back pain and Geddert said “your back must really hurt.” He hired Kathy Klages to fill in while he was on vacation. Yet, he still has a successful gym.
I don’t get it at all and if it were me, I would be running for the hills with my DD. But, people still think “it won’t happen to me!”

I cannot for the life of me think of any valid reason a parent would allow their child to attend that gym...but they do. I’m afraid it will be the same with Scherbo’s.

I agree.

I do think the USA osteopathic society/medical board or whoever regulates these practices need to be held to account as well. I think part of the reason it was "accepted" by other adults who knew about it, coaches, parents, and gymnasts, is that it is a licensed technique. It is a valid treatment, so he is a medical doctor applying a treatment which he is authorised to perform by his countries medical licence. In fact when it first came to light the report was not for the treatment itself, but because he was doing it without gloves. So the vaginal adjustment itself was obviously thought to be in the "normal" range of treatment.

I think they need to review when and how this "treatment" is used. Licencing a Dr who is treating under age girls for gymnastics injuries seems crazy to me. Grant licences to those who are treating women for birth injuries, fine.

But yes. I know many kids and parents who are not only keeping their kids at abusive gyms, but are practically participating. i know one family who's kid had a block. The coach would leave them trying to go for the skill all practice until they cried. Then the coach would send the kid out to the parents, who would tell them to get back in and do the skill or what were they paying all that money for, wasting everyone's time etc. The kid is now very good three years later, and there are lots of parents wanting to get their kids in that group, and seem to accept that is what you do if you want to achieve. There's an unsurprisingly high turnover and there's a fight when a kid leaves and there's a space.

 

[duyetanh]

I agree.

I do think the USA osteopathic society/medical board or whoever regulates these practices need to be held to account as well. I think part of the reason it was "accepted" by other adults who knew about it, coaches, parents, and gymnasts, is that it is a licensed technique. It is a valid treatment, so he is a medical doctor applying a treatment which he is authorised to perform by his countries medical licence. In fact when it first came to light the report was not for the treatment itself, but because he was doing it without gloves. So the vaginal adjustment itself was obviously thought to be in the "normal" range of treatment.

I think they need to review when and how this "treatment" is used. Licencing a Dr who is treating under age girls for gymnastics injuries seems crazy to me. Grant licences to those who are treating women for birth injuries, fine.

But yes. I know many kids and parents who are not only keeping their kids at abusive gyms, but are practically participating. i know one family who's kid had a block. The coach would leave them trying to go for the skill all practice until they cried. Then the coach would send the kid out to the parents, who would tell them to get back in and do the skill or what were they paying all that money for, wasting everyone's time etc. The kid is now very good three years later, and there are lots of parents wanting to get their kids in that group, and seem to accept that is what you do if you want to achieve. There's an unsurprisingly high turnover and there's a fight when a kid leaves and there's a space.

That is just awful.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Ugh... as the old saying goes, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

Shutting down dialogue and criticism is a well honed tool of those with bad intent. Hopefully most gym owners recognize that this is one of the reasons a good communication plan matters, and provide a healthy way to communicate and let parents and athletes speak up.

I do know it's not always easy. Recently heard at an NCAA game... a freshman dad complaining loudly in the area where parents wait to greet kids after games, that he was thinking of trying to move his kid to another school because his kid didn't play enough in ther first division I weekend. Same guy a couple weeks later running down the goalie three feet away from the goalie's parents-- they were gracious enough to ignore him and walk away. No doubt that guy was a nightmare to deal with by club and high school coaches, probably got away with it because they wanted the kid on the team. Those parents tend to get away with more than other parents, in my experience, different standards.

So I get it, that communication is tricky, in so many areas of life. But in the context of gym, I think it is critical to the safety of the kids.

 

[tumbletop]

Oh, it absolutely is true. I think it would be easier to count the number of girls and women I know who have never been abused, harassed, assaulted or raped then the ones who have not. Most have experienced some combination of the above, unfortunately. #metoo

This x100. I grew up spending a lot of time on the campus of a women's college where my mom studied and worked, and then attended it myself. So, you could say I know a LOT of women from extremely diverse backgrounds. For a research project, several classmates and I sent a campus-wide (anonymous and including students, staff, and faculty) survey asking about their experiences with abuse, harassment, assault, battery, and stalking. Normally these surveys get a response of about 16%. This one got 44% participation (1474 individuals). Not a single one answered "No" to the questions about sexual harassment. None. Literally every single woman we surveyed had experienced harassment. 73% had unwanted sexual advances made on them, 62% reported being victim of sexual assault (of which, 49% were 18 or younger at that time), and I don't remember the numbers but most of the victims under 18 were assaulted by a family member, teacher, sports coach, or "known and trusted acquaintance".

Tl;dr is that something is fundamentally wrong with our society and its "status quo". Change needs to happen, because nobody should ever have to experience the things that I, and so, so, SO many people have endured.

Also, I think Aly would be amazing in a position where she could

 

[vagymmomma]

Ugh. So sad to see Aly's story coming out now. She's been so vocal -- now we have a better idea why. There's an article in USA Today about 60 minutes story coming this weekend if you want background.

 

[amiandjim]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/aly-ra...m-doctor/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=44563613

 

[profmom]

Well, there goes the narrative that it was really the fault of all those parents who just were not involved enough and didn't raise their daughters to be strong enough.

I'm very upset by this but I can't say it's too surprising. Nassar was a highly expert predator, and at this point, I'd guess it is more likely than not that he abused most of the top level female athletes in the sport.

I know Aly will be able to get past this eventually and that she'll continue to be the strong, compassionate woman she is. I just feel terrible that as a public figure, she felt she had to reveal this. It's an exceptionally difficult thing to process and deal with, and no one should have to do it in front of an avid national audience. I have so much admiration for the young (and not so young) women who have made the choice to do it publicly for the good of the sport that they obviously still love, and for all the little girls who look up to them.

 

[duyetanh]

Argh! She seemed like such a strong one that i was hoping she had made it through the sport unscathed by Nassar. Darn, darn, darn. Expletive.

 

[BachFlyer]

I'm so appalled, but with the sheer numbers of girls that have come forward, I can't say that I'm surprised. I feel terrible for each and every one of them. I'm sure I've voiced this opinion in the past but I will reiterate that I strongly feel it comes down to the culture in this sport where girls are typically trained to be compliant rather than empowered, especially at the higher levels where on top of the expectation of obedience, a girl's dreams are in the hands of just a few people that might not have their priorities straight. I really, really hope that it will start to change going forward. Very proud of (and thankful for) all who have been brave enough to speak out.