WAG Does age make a difference in scores?

[Krystan]

i've been doing this a long time...generally speaking, the younger age groups are not judged as harshly. my opinion is that there is nothing wrong with this. a 15 year old can take a "beating" when it comes to scores. 8 year old's not so much. they would quit in droves if they did to them what they do to the older kids. it's all part of the process.

I don't think it's fair at all, but gymnastics isn't fair anyway (glad to see my instincts are vindicated a bit though). If my 11 year old L5 who started gymnastics at age 9 is scored more harshly than her 8 year old teammates, it doesn't seem fair to her, especially when she feels she performs better. I'll be honest though, she doesn't get too worked up about the scores, she just states it matter-of-fact. She is aware that older gymnasts are subtly treated differently than younger ones. She has even commented that the head coach "loves the cute little ones". It is not too obvious or done intentionally, and dd is still getting excellent coaching, but it's there and she knows it. Maybe it's the cuteness, maybe it's the potential for greatness (certainly an 11yo L5 will never make elite), the personality, size, whatever. I am not in any way trying to take away from the hard work and accomplishments of younger gymnasts, it is just that the sport is designed for them.

I don't think judges do this on purpose, but I see them smiling hugely at these cute wonder-kids. I don't blame them - it is certainly more amazing to see an 8 year old performing a beautiful tumbling pass than a 12 year old, I usually smile all through their routine too! I don't think this consciously changes their scoring, but with such a subjective sport, I imagine it can affect it.

In all fairness, I agree with another poster than noted the opposite at lower levels. Certainly in L4 it seemed like the older kids scored better - they were in better control of their bodies; some of the younger ones were landing on their heads in the BHS or had sloppy form. However, in L5 it seems reversed. The young super-stars who will be L8 by the time they're my daughters age are clearly better than most of the field and deserve the higher scores. I'm more talking about subtle difference, nothing too obvious.

So, yes, I think the older/bigger/taller ones are judged a little more harshly, but I don't think it's done on purpose. It is what it is, for better or worse.

 

[cbifoja]

They also make straight lines look amazing.

Yeah they do! My daughter is the short, muscular type but one of her best gym friends is tall and thin with legs that go on forever. Bella always talks about how she wants to be as tall as her friend and you can see the longing on her face when she watches her friend on beam. When Bella's friend does that arabesque to scale hold in the L5 beam routine......oh my god! I'm not sure I've ever seen anything so beautiful!

 

[cbifoja]

One thing I've always wondered, and I'd love to hear from some judges on this...... I come from a performance background where the play with the crowd was important. As a result, it was lots of big smiles and changing facial expressions.

I've always wondered if coaches are subconsciously influenced by those kind of things. Could a gymnast eke out a tenth or two if they truly PERFORMED the floor routine or if they smiled during their beam routine? I know it's kind of goofy to imagine, I'm sitting her chuckling just thinking about some little girl smiling her way through a beam routine! But especially on floor since it is such an artistic endeavour.....what do you think? Would smiles score a touch better?

 

[Quadqueen]

Not sure if they score better if they smile, but at DD’s meet last weekend, the judge pulled them aside and said if the girls pout or look upset, either during or AFTER their routine (as some of them did), she will deduct for it!!

 

[Natasha]

Yes. They do get points for "quality of expression." It is in the compulsory rules listed as .15 value. Our coaches focus on this with our girls after their routines are all technically correct.

 

[cbifoja]

Oh wow! Learn something new here every single day.

 

[Amber]

One thing I've always wondered, and I'd love to hear from some judges on this...... I come from a performance background where the play with the crowd was important. As a result, it was lots of big smiles and changing facial expressions.

I've always wondered if coaches are subconsciously influenced by those kind of things. Could a gymnast eke out a tenth or two if they truly PERFORMED the floor routine or if they smiled during their beam routine? I know it's kind of goofy to imagine, I'm sitting her chuckling just thinking about some little girl smiling her way through a beam routine! But especially on floor since it is such an artistic endeavour.....what do you think? Would smiles score a touch better?

Not 100% sure on this one, but my younger DD (7) loves to compete, because she loves being in front of the crowd. She is also a "smiley" type of kid. She does everything except vault with a big smile on her face. She scores higher with mishaps (falls, stumbles, etc) sometimes than kids without. But it could be solely skill based. I do know one judge (at a clinic) commented to a coach that DD was a joy to watch, because it was obvious how much fun gymnastics was to her.

 

[B&M's mom]

Yes, it can impact a score but only slightly. A friend worked as a volunteer at meet my kids were attending. The judge, not knowing that she knew my DD, remarked on my daughter's performance favorably but noted that she needed to have more expression. The next competitor came out and did a great routine with lots of expression. She scored .05 higher than my daughter basically because of her expression. My daughter learned that she had to have expression, not just do technically great routines.

 

[cbone]

At our last meet my daughter and her little partners in crime were still in their leos after their session getting ready to help sell raffle tickets and various food items. A parent coming in for the next session (Level 5) looked at them and asked me, "Are they younger Level 5s?" I replied, "No, they're Level 4s." That woman got an immediate look of relief on her face and said, "Oh, good!"

We call these girls "The Hot Shots". The three of them are cute, full of personality and are very talented. They're also little and very fit. I'm not sure what prompted the woman's comments, but I assume there was at least a bit of worry about "cute points", because this lady was worried about them on sight.

It makes me reevaluate my position on "cute points" a bit. If there's that much worry about it, there might be a kernel of truth there.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Wow! I didn't realize that there was such a difference in the physical appearance of Level 4's and Level 5's! My dd was often mistaken for a Level C when she was only a Level B so I totally get what you are saying!

 

[cudutch2]

At the meets we go to I feel judges score pretty much the same.I see it is much harder for the young girls competing higher levels to get on the podium. At some of the level 6 meets last year my daughter's age division (7-9) had to score 37-38 to place in top 3 while the 13 and above would have to score 34-35. Hard to explain to little kids why they are going home without a trophy.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

At the meets we go to I feel judges score pretty much the same.I see it is much harder for the young girls competing higher levels to get on the podium. At some of the level 6 meets last year my daughter's age division (7-9) had to score 37-38 to place in top 3 while the 13 and above would have to score 34-35. Hard to explain to little kids why they are going home without a trophy.

The competition is definitely tougher in the younger age groups of the higher levels. My DD was level 8 in the youngest group she scored mid 37 and didn't even make top 12! Meanwhile, in the other 5 age groups that same score would have been on the podium. Not always easy but we just need to keep her focused on fun and improvement and less on ribbons/medals.

 

[Pheebers]

I have to say that my daughter's coach used to ask the judges to score our team more harshly - her feeling was that anyone could do well at a local meet, but that wouldn't prepare them well for states or regionals. As our team always seems to have the youngest kids it looked like prejudice against the younger ones.

 

[barsgirl]

I'm 14 and a level 5 with a lot of younger kids on my team (they're adorable and I love them) and I do notice that the younger age groups are usually better overall. there are definetly a few older girls who are great too(37-38 scores) but its more common in younger girls. I think their routines look better because if their positions, straight legs or point toes are not quite perfect it is not too bad looking but when I bend my legs you can so tell, it looks really bad. (I am 5'8). although on vault, my three taller friends and I are the best because we get so much more power and block than the shorties! anyway, judges are only human! I'm sure I would automatically like the cute kids just a little more.

 

[christabelle]

I had to think about this a few days. Gut instinct says yes there is a cute factor but it took me a while to think why. My first and third gymmie progress up levels faster and score better. Middle gymmie is same height as big sister and tends not to do as well. For a while I thought maybe her age and/or size contributed to her lower scores.

Now I've actually thought about why - I think it's because a long leg bent at 10 degrees just looks more bent than a short leg bent at 10 degrees - so gets a bigger deduction. That's my take on it anyways.

 

[cbone]

Please don't anyone take offense to this question. Could it be that, as you move up in levels, younger girls are scoring higher because they're the superior talents? If you have a 7-year-old Level 5, maybe she's getting great scores because she has so much natural talent that she's moving up by virtue of her talent and is receiving high scores for the same reason.

You may have an 11-year-old Level 5 who repeated Level 4 and is in their second year of Level 5 because they just plain aren't as good.

I think that talking about errors being highlighted by body type has some value, but maybe the easiest answer is the rightest answer.

 

[gardenia01]

The competition is definitely tougher in the younger age groups of the higher levels. My DD was level 8 in the youngest group she scored mid 37 and didn't even make top 12! Meanwhile, in the other 5 age groups that same score would have been on the podium. Not always easy but we just need to keep her focused on fun and improvement and less on ribbons/medals.

I think this is definitely the case in Levels 7 and 8 and to some extent 9, but I have noticed that at Level 10, the highest scores are not in the youngest age group. I am thinking this may be because older Level 10s have had a few years of Level 10 - even some elite experience - and are therefore more secure in their skills.

 

[Quadqueen]

Cbone...yes, that is often the case

 

[cbone]

I think this is definitely the case in Levels 7 and 8 and to some extent 9, but I have noticed that at Level 10, the highest scores are not in the youngest age group. I am thinking this may be because older Level 10s have had a few years of Level 10 - even some elite experience - and are therefore more secure in their skills.

Once you're at Level 10, you have developed the skills to get to the highest level. Then it's about execution of the skills.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

Once you're at Level 10, you have developed the skills to get to the highest level. Then it's about execution of the skills.

Not necessarily, our 10's train different and harder skills each season.