Dominique Moceanu Interview on the "Dark Side" of gymnastics

[ellabella]

Something else worth noting is that gymnastics was bit different in the early 90's. It wasn't as easy to train at any gym you wanted and just make an Olympic Team. Certain gyms had the political clout and you really needed to be at one of those gyms. Now it is a bit easier to be successful based on your skills alone. I'm sure there are many parents and gymnasts who felt they didn't have a choice.

 

[Billy]

Something else worth noting is that gymnastics was bit different in the early 90's. It wasn't as easy to train at any gym you wanted and just make an Olympic Team. Certain gyms had the political clout and you really needed to be at one of those gyms. Now it is a bit easier to be successful based on your skills alone. I'm sure there are many parents and gymnasts who felt they didn't have a choice.

That's definitely true. But if things were so horrible, why wasn't the choice made to quit? The Olympics is not worth sacrificing your child's physical and emotional well-being.

 

[midwestgymmom]

I agree with Shawn about Chellsies eating habits. I would uncomfortably laugh too if I had to relate what I eat to an interviewer. One thing she didnt say was how much fruit and chicken she eats. My dd would eat her weight in fruit if it was always available instead of something else.

 

[Ingymmom]

It may not have been the wisest decision to expose stories of Kim Zmeskal. Stories of abuse aside, do you guys agree with the current process of choosing the teams? Do any of the other sports have the same process in the US?

I think that in an already subjective sport, to add a selection process which includes no scoring to the judging system, what feel of control do the young ladies feel that they have? I wonder in years to come if we will hear from some of the ones left off the team this year.

I personally can't agree or disagree with the process because I have never been involved & don't know enough about it. I thought that maybe the reason they do it this way was to perhaps keep the competition (ie China) wondering more so than the girls or the US - not allowing them to be even better prepared. But this was just a theory. I think China announced their team around the same time as the US did. Anyway, It seems that the women's team that was expected to make it did, no surprises or upsets.

 

[Ingymmom]

Something else worth noting is that gymnastics was bit different in the early 90's. It wasn't as easy to train at any gym you wanted and just make an Olympic Team. Certain gyms had the political clout and you really needed to be at one of those gyms. Now it is a bit easier to be successful based on your skills alone. I'm sure there are many parents and gymnasts who felt they didn't have a choice.

Exactly, elite gymnastics has made many changes for the better already... simply drudging up the past is not the answer here. This could have and IMO should have been handled differently.

 

[flippersmom]

Diet

My daughter was at IGC when Nastia and Chellsie Memmel stopped by. She came how and was so excited to have met them and told me exactly what they had eaten for breakfast since they sat near her. She said Chellsie's included milk, cereal and a bagel. She said she had eaten a chicken wrap for lunch. She also said of Nastia - boy, can she eat (my daughter is 10 and was impressed with how much they ate!). When we watched the interview on YouTube, she was surprised with what Chellsie said. She said no, she eats more than that. I'm glad she could recognize that and knows that as a mom, I don't let her go to practice unless she has eaten something - toast, cereal, something.

 

[gracefulone]

I really think people are blowing Chellsie's comments out of proportion. When people ask you what you eat every day, you probably don't say everything. She probably got nervous, knowing a lot of people would see the interview. I also think Chellsie looks healthy, and don't think people should be concerned about it. It's not like she looks sickly, or stick-thin.

 

[midwestgymmom]

Thanks Gracefulone. Exactly what I was trying to say

 

[acmyrh]

As I was reading in another post, someone suggested making the process span more than two months (June and July). Meaning, have nationals some time late April, then Olympic trials early June, then the camp mid-July. I think this would be a good way to keep the old system, if that is what needs to be done, but also revamp it so it gives the athletes time to go back to the gym and work on what they have to work on. I know this wouldn't fix the problem of knowing when and where to peak, but, well idk??? What does others think???

 

[NYgymfan]

I'd love to see some changes to the system. Olympic Trials were disappointing in that only 2 athletes were chosen...Shawn and Nastia. Well, duh, I think everyone knew that they would be the top 2, it was like there are no surprises, so what's the point of making such a big deal out of Olympic Trials if we are just going to make it an exhibition and choose most of the team later?

As for Bela and Martha, based on what I've heard about their coaching style, I don't agree with it. Maybe it works fine in Romania, but this is America, not Romania (sorry not trying to offend any Romanians). I think there should be more checks and balances, more third parties involved with training the team, and less subjectivity in the selection process. Obviously I think the athletes should be sufficiently fed as well. Being an elite athlete shouldn't mean u have to sacrifice ur health. I don't train as much as they do and I know I eat a ton. And I weigh more then average for kids my age, but its muscle weight which is good.

But at this point, what's done is done. Trials are over, the team has been selected, and they are either in Beijing or will be really soon. Now is the time we should be supporting the team and everyone should be positive about the sport. There's 3-something years after the Olympics are over to make changes to the selection process or the camps if changes need to be made. That's why I'm truely saddened by all the controversy that comes up now, between the interview and Chalked Up.

 

[pippismom]

Checks and balances

Bela and Marta don't train these gymnasts on a daily basis and my understanding is that when the girls are at training camp, their coach is with them. So, they have their own coach to speak up for them as well as the coaches of all the other girls. Also, I believe Shawn,s coach was named as head coach for the olympics and marta is the "coordinator". I don't think Bela has an offical role anymore because of the controversies in the past. Also, I think the selection committee includes an athlete representative (former gymnast maybe). That being said, I'm sure Marta has the most weight in the decision, but there are other voices in the process.

 

[gym law mom]

I watched the interview on HBO twice(Tivo is great). I think the real truth lies somewhere in the middle. Dom did raise some good points and I don't think the abusive coaching lies just with Bela and Marta. Al Fong hasn't exactly been a poster boy for positive coaching, there was alot ot talk about the tempers of Don Peters and Steve Nunno. I think Dom has alot of personal issues to work through. She grew up with parents that seemed to only care about turning her into an Olympic champion and not raising a child. Probably when she went to train with Bela, it didn't seem all that different from home, so why as a 10 yo would she question his coaching and say "I don't want to do this." Basically, she was stuck. Then there was the whole mess after the Olympics with her dad opening a gym using money she had earned doing endorsements and Dom becoming an emancipated minor. I really hope she's been able to work through some of that. I think she has some valid points regarding the Olympic selection system and generally how the elite girls are pushed to beyond the breaking point in some cases. She claims to have gymnasts, coaches and administrators that agree, but then they have to have the guts to step up with a plan and "clean house."

Americans love winners. As long as the current selection systems and national camps produce top results in women's gymnastics, few will see any need to change it unless alot of FACTS(not rumors or inuendos) are brought to light. Also all parents need to be involved with their daughter's gymnastics and not be afraid to question training method that they see as unsafe.

As for Chellsie. The reporter asked her 2x, if all she ate for dinner was fruit. Now if she'd been nervous or really didn't understand the question the 1st time, I would think as a 20 yo she would have gotten a clue and added other foods, but she talked about chicken as her protein at lunch(which isn't alot of protein btw) and then stuck to her statement about just fruit for dinner. Now, she may be doing a "pre meet" type diet to make sure she keeps the weight down, but it still isn't healthy------not by a long shot. The thing is more girls/parents have caught this interview than saw her eating at a gym camp, so this is what is going to stick in their minds. I would hope Chellsie can explain what she really meant IF she was nervous or realizes she didn't answer the question the way she would have liked. Cetainly, nobody wants to see alot of girls that heard that start begging to eat the same diet Chellsie talked about because she's one of their favorite gymnasts and they want to be an Olympic gymnast just like her.

Ok---will get off my soapbox now!

 

[NYgymfan]

Clearly there were some issues at home when Dom was growing up. One can easily question what her father's motivation was if he ended up taking his own child's money away from her. She might not have known any better when she was younger, and it is not surprising that she looked back and saw a lot of negative things in her training experiences. She should still be proud of herself for doing as well as she did throughout her gymnastics career.

Responding to pippismom's comments, yes, I know the Karolyi's are not "officially" in charge anymore. But what officially happens and what really happens are often very different. I don't think she should have the most weight in the decision, and I don't think it was a smart decision to remove someone (Bela) from a position because of a controversy and then hand it over to that person's wife. Their "sphere of influence" over the gymnastics program is certainly still there, though it is certainly less than what it used to be. People might not agree with my opinion, but that is my opinion.

Regarding Chellsie's diet, I think something is very wrong if that is all she is eating for dinner. As gymlawmom said, at the very least, it sends a bad message to her fans. Is it just coincidence that she made those statements more than once and that diet was part of the controversy regarding Bela Karolyi's coaching? I can't say for sure, but it certainly makes people wonder....

 

[lannamavity]

Kelli Hill for US National Team Coordinator.


Unfortunatly, I think we're gonna get Whacki next year.

 

[LemonLime]

Kelli Hill for US National Team Coordinator.


Unfortunatly, I think we're gonna get Whacki next year.

Over the past 5 months, Marta Karolyi has said repeatedly to coaches who attend national team camps that she's staying on for four more years (if not longer). That doesn't mean it won't change, but that is assuredly the plan for now. Rybacki is heavily involved with the gymnasts now and that won't change either. In addition, there are numerous national staff that heavily contribute to the direction of the team and the coaching of the gymnasts.

If nationals-trials-selection camp-camp were spread out from April to August, more gymnasts would be injured. Elite gymnasts are trained to peak for meets. Their repetition cycle goes way up (e.g., 3 routines in a row in January, 7 routines in a row before a qualifying meet - although it depends on the gym) and their hard landings dramatically increase (e.g., it is not unusual for an elite gymnast to do NO hard landings 6-10 months of the year). I can't give an opinion whether the gymnasts were asked to be peaking for too many meets/camps this year, but two months sounds rather reasonable.

The Karolyi's daughter is a certified nutritionist with a degree in nutrition. Under her direction, the food at camps is clearly over 1000 calories a day and is balanced including plenty of carbs, protein and fruits/vegetables.

I have no personal knowledge of the Karolyi training in the past when they were club coaches and have zero to add to the discussion about Moceanu and her training. I will say that coaching Nadia Comaneci, Mary Lou Retton, Kristie Phillips, Kim Z and two of the Magnificent Seven is a spectacular track record in response to an earlier poster that didn't believe their contribution was among the strongest compared to other clubs. There are almost no gyms in this country that have more than two international elites at any given time, although in the early to mid 90s, CGA, Karolyi's, Aerials and Dynamo (I could be missing some) had most of the elite gymnasts in the country as the earlier poster said. Today, WOGA generally has the most, but they have 3 elite coaching pods from which the gymnasts test elite. Parkettes either ties or comes right behind WOGA most years. All Olympia has 3. CGA had 3 before Priess retired from elite at championships. That's about it.

 

[SharpGymn]

Sometimes I actually question if the gymnasts area really eating this little (Chellsie's fruit and chicken) or if they are just saying that to appear that they are working on being lean. I am a gymnast and if I eat less than 1500 calories I feel like I'm going to pass out in daily living, let alone doing my 4 hour gymnastics workout (and I do one a day, not two). I honestly don't know how they survive on that few calories if it's true, and if so, I would think their performance and ability to heal would go up tenfold if they actually ate. Shawn Johnson seems to have a healthy, but well rounded diet (protein at each of the three meals, fruits and vegetables as the base of most of her meals) and she looks and performs great. She is not a rail, but I don't think gymnasts have to be to do well.

I know someone who was on the national team with Kim back in the 90's who stated they were basically on diet pills, vitamins, and water. It's been frequently said many elites are on 900 calories a day which doesn't even cover the amount of energy they burn in 2 workouts per day besides their base metabolic rate for their body to maintain what it is.

There is something to be said about cutting down water weight, but you have to be extremely careful about this, especially females IMO. This is a bit easier with males I think, but even at extremely low body fat and hydration you are basically between surviving and collapsing. There is a reason, wrestlers and boxers hydrate and replenish right after weigh in. They may be able to function basically down to that level, but not function well at all.

 

[SharpGymn]

I agree Chellsie probably eats more and different things on different days, but it's too bad she wasn't able to think first about what to say, because some little girls who don't know better might think they need to eat like that to be an elite gymnast. I know it must be hard to answer questions under the gun though.

I really think people are blowing Chellsie's comments out of proportion. When people ask you what you eat every day, you probably don't say everything. She probably got nervous, knowing a lot of people would see the interview. I also think Chellsie looks healthy, and don't think people should be concerned about it. It's not like she looks sickly, or stick-thin.

 

[Ingymmom]

I agree Chellsie probably eats more and different things on different days, but it's too bad she wasn't able to think first about what to say, because some little girls who don't know better might think they need to eat like that to be an elite gymnast. I know it must be hard to answer questions under the gun though.

It is really important to remember though that Chellsie is eating as an Olympic gymnast, which is quite different than an elite gymnast.

 

[lannamavity]

It is really important to remember though that Chellsie is eating as an Olympic gymnast, which is quite different than an elite gymnast.

Wha...huh???

That interview was done before she knew she was on the team, and does this mean that an athlete's calorie requirements change the day they find out they made the team?

 

[Ingymmom]

Wha...huh???

This does not make sense? There are many elite gymnasts - only a few will be Olympic gymnasts. Right now Chellsie is preparing for what she probably considers the single most important gymnastics competition of her life. I am sure she has adjusted her diet to what is optimal for her.