Dominique Moceanu Interview on the "Dark Side" of gymnastics

[ginnymac]

I'd say it's smart for us to start watching the Liukins and Johnson's coach more closely.


I'd love to know how Shawn's coach is able to accomplish as much in her reportedly 24 hours/week Most of the other elites seem to log in significantly more hours in the gym. He must be doing something right. I would imagine that it helps keep injuries down...especially the overuse injuries.

I don't think that Shawn has had any major injuries or surgeries during her career...correct me if I'm wrong. If true, that is pretty amazing!

 

[greyhoundrescue]

I agree, ginnymac. 24 hours seems FAR less than anyone else at that level. How does it work? It seems like it has definitely made for a healthier athlete, both physically AND emotionally. It is so rare to catch that kid (and at 16, she is still a kid) without a smile on her face it's shocking. She seems so very well-adjusted. Kudus to mom and dad, Qiau, and Shawn! She's obviously happy doing what she was supposed to be doing. I hope that all the new and up-and-coming elites can learn from such a great role model. I can't wait to see what else she does!

 

[lannamavity]

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a 12 year old...

Okay...not sure what that means.

So, your 12 year old is incredibly mature and makes decisions about her "career"?

 

[Granny Smith]

This is very debatable, and I believe that is is Dominique's main point...she didn't have a choice as a 12 year old child. I'm not sure that her comeback has much to do with it.

One thing I would have to say in Dominique's case, I really don't think that she had a say. Even if she were to speak up to the Karolyi's, she still had to deal with her parents, who were also Romanian born and felt she had Olympic potential well before she even arrived at the ranch. This one had no say, if Karolyi's weren't pushing her, her parents would have been pushing even harder.

In an ideal world, I would like to think if a child/athlete/elite gymnast spoke up and said "no more", that most parents would listen and go to bat for their child - but I know that we have many that live through their child rather than for their child. There's parents like that in every sport, not just gymnastics....

 

[Billy]

Okay...not sure what that means.

So, your 12 year old is incredibly mature and makes decisions about her "career"?

No, my 12-year-old son is incredibly immature. But what I meant is that it's nearly impossible to force a teenager (or soon to be) to do anything they don't want to do, particularly putting in hours and hours of practice and getting good at something. You might force them to the gym but you cannot force them to be good at it. I'm sure Dom wasn't willing to outright defy her parents but I still firmly believe that if things were that bad, she'd have said something.

 

[gymdog]

I think as adults, people understand things that they didn't understand as children at the time. I'm sure you can find lots of cases where children were coerced into things and didn't outright rebel, but weren't happy and were affected negatively later in life. It seems fairly obvious to me that Dominique's parents had a plan for her in gymnastics. I doubt she hates gymnastics and never liked it all, but that doesn't mean she wasn't negatively affected by some of her experiences in gymnastics due to the poor decisions of adults who had more than her best interests in mind. Listen, this is what it comes down to for me. Would I seriously put my own 12 year old, or really, any other 12 year old in the situation and environment she was put in under any circumstances? No, can't really imagine that. And I don't think most people could know all we know and then say yes. So there's really no way for me to sit there and defend it and say she's a loser and trying to get attention for speaking out and saying she wasn't happy. It's entirely unsurprising to me that she was really unhappy at times.

If you wanted to shock me, you would pretty much have to trot out Dominique talking about how she was so happy and advocates her experience as a successful way to turn out well adjusted young adults. Not blaming her parents, not blaming her coaches, because I don't live their lives and they didn't have the clarity of hindsight either. But that doesn't make them immune from having made poor decisions and it doesn't mean that no one should talk about this.

 

[lannamavity]

No, my 12-year-old son is incredibly immature. But what I meant is that it's nearly impossible to force a teenager (or soon to be) to do anything they don't want to do, particularly putting in hours and hours of practice and getting good at something. You might force them to the gym but you cannot force them to be good at it. I'm sure Dom wasn't willing to outright defy her parents but I still firmly believe that if things were that bad, she'd have said something.

Wow...while it's true that I don't have a 12 year old daughter myself, over my career, I have seen many, many preteen girls whose parents manipulated them into doing things they didn't want to do, often the truth being revealed later.

While it can be obvious to everyone around her, a gymnast can, at times, continue on being miserable just because they think it it what they "have to do". Even kids who tell their parents that they want to quit are often told that they can't, or shouldn't. I never underestimate the influence parents have over their kids, or the power of a parent's approval or disapproval. There are a lot of subtleties to that whole relationship.

It's way more complicated than:
"I want to quit because I'm being mistreated."
"Oh, okay, honey...love you...go ahead and quit!"

 

[gracefulone]

I'd say it's smart for us to start watching the Liukins and Johnson's coach more closely.


I'd love to know how Shawn's coach is able to accomplish as much in her reportedly 24 hours/week Most of the other elites seem to log in significantly more hours in the gym. He must be doing something right. I would imagine that it helps keep injuries down...especially the overuse injuries.

I don't think that Shawn has had any major injuries or surgeries during her career...correct me if I'm wrong. If true, that is pretty amazing!

Shawn gets a lot of specialized attention at her gym, because she one of very few(if any other) elites at Chow's. It makes it a lot more realistic to be training less hours this way.

 

[kgymn]

Shawn gets a lot of specialized attention at her gym, because she one of very few(if any other) elites at Chow's. It makes it a lot more realistic to be training less hours this way.

IF it is possible to train fewer hours with more direct attention, wouldn't it make sense at gyms with more athletes to split them into groups that do not all work out at the same time? They'd get more attention, and have to put in fewer hours. Not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

I also think this is a reason why athletes (or their parents) shouldn't keep gravitating towards the larger gyms, if more one on one attention for fewer hours gets you an olympic medalist with fewer injuries wouldn't that be the ultimate ideal then, a smaller gym versus a powerhouse one where athletes are a dime a dozen and injured as often as not?

~Katy

 

[gracefulone]

It obviously makes more sense, and maybe we will see more of it going into 2012, once everyone realizes Shawn's success at the Olympic level.

The larger gyms have reputations often, and that's why people keep coming to them.

 

[gym4lifee]

the "Dark Side"

Honestly, they make it eem like our whole sport revlovles around that! i am sick of hearing about how bad it is! i love gymnastics, and sure i may feel like i hate it sometimes when i'm sore, but you can get out any time, and these girls act like there's no way out of it! i hate it, there's so much more to our sport than injuries! there's beauty, elegance, piose and grace. And then we are strong girls, we d hte impossible, and not all gymnasts have a bad end to their career, we just stop when we don't get what we want, or it's too hard on our bodies! peole out side of this sport need to understand that not everybody gets the glory, but we all put in the effort. And what these interveiws and books say? they need to know that it's not true about all of us, and the shows focus on those that have a bad career, to turn more people away from the sport! it's like they don't liek us because we can defy gravity, and look graceful while doing it, and they can't come close to what we do!

 

[Tim_Dad]

Yes, but positive stories don't sell as many books or get high TV ratings.

The Moceanu interview, and books like it, (Chalked up, etc) ties the intensive training and personal sacrifices of a young girl with the political "unfairness" of the sport and the extremes that are often required to become Elite.

In such stories, the adults are often cast in the negative. "Why do they push that poor sweet little girl so hard?!" or make it seem like the level of conditioning, or lack of cooperation is somehow abusive.

After all: The public image of little girls is still pretty yellow knee-length dresses playing tea-party with Ken and Barbie. Little girls are ballarina's. Not ripped 4-foot-nothing 10 yr old's with 6-pack abs.

Now, I know you've seen most (of not all) Gymnastics Montages on You Tube. Am I wrong?

No doubt you've see the seemingly favorite out takes of a young Nicole Harris crying?? It's never shown of course that Nicole is a very self-determined, perfection-minded, and emotional Athlete. (Basically a very strong and talented gymnast that is also a bit of a cry-baby). Nonetheless, the viewer forms an opinion not at how hard Nicole wants to work herself, but how hard the coaches and parents are pushing.

The result is the same. The reader/viewer thinks: "Oh that poor little girl". And THAT's what sells the story!

Also, Many of the same arguments have been made by journalists that uncover the so-called "seedy underworld" of child beauty pageants. The reader or viewer is presented only with the (often negative) opinon of the journalist, and not the complete viewpoints of the partisipants. Same thing. "How awful! The parents are dressing up that cute little girl to look like she's 20 years old. Make-up and fishnet stockings and all!!"

As I try to remind my own teenage son (often): "Just because you read it doesn't make it TRUE! Writing a book or article doesn't make the author an authority on anything, other then expressing his or her own opinions."

Your conclusions are very different then the one's offer in the Moceanu interview. GOOD!! This means you understand that this one interview is NOT authoritive about the sport, but only about Dominique's experience. She's one of HOW MANY elite gymnasts?

 

[Tim_Dad]

Shawn gets a lot of specialized attention at her gym, because she one of very few(if any other) elites at Chow's. It makes it a lot more realistic to be training less hours this way.

My wife spoke with a 'mom-of-young-gymnast' that attends Chows during a competition last year. Basically - what you said. Chow's has 3 Elites - including Shawn. That's a huge advantage. Maybe one that other gyms may want to note.

The last time I was at Parkettes in PA, the Elites numbered 30's.

 

[gym4lifee]

Yeah i guess that's true. It just bothers me that so many people only see the bad part of our sport thru the interveiws and stuff.

 

[bucketdude]

Thanks for the links ingymmom

 

[bucketdude]

Muceanu is complaining about not being able to eat brownies?? She went to the olympics!! I think I would give up brownies for that. As a level 10 I didn't eat sugar during season..
The other things like injuries, and problems with coaching make more sense to complain about.

 

[bogwoppit]

JUst to make it clear that the member called "chalkbucket" has nothing to do with the forum. I can guarantee that name will be changing very soon!!!

 

[Mag_7_Fan96]

When it comes to Dominique complaining about the Karolyi's I just have one thing to say. She WANTED to be coached by Bela. In fact, if you read her autobiography she clearly says that she wanted to be coached by Bela and PROMISED herself that she would one day and then her father told her that both he and Dominique's mother had agreed to move from Tampa to Houston just so she could train with Bela.

That's why I respect Kerri Strug when it comes to this subject. She's said that he is not the right coach for everyone but he was right for her.


As for Dominique she became too good too early. By the time she was 16 she was done. She wants what she had. She needs to move on.

 

[All Chalked Up]

Honestly, I don't think she had any buissness talking like that. Like a poster said, her PARENTS shipped her off. Not the coaches. Yes, they train you hard. It's a sport, it's like that in every sport. You can get injured in every sport there is. It's unavoidable, it will happen. No reason to grill the sport because of it.

 

[justlikenast97]

what can i say? gymnastics isn't for the weak.