Coaches Elgrip giants

[Geoffrey Taucer]

What's the best way to introduce elgrip giants on highbar?

There are several things I'd like to know: first, how to train the giant itself. Most of the time, the tap I see is a slight heeldrive down to a hard pike comming back up -- is this correct? What drills and progressions are effective in teaching this skill? Are there any prerequisites besides strong front giants and sufficient shoulder/wrist flexibility?

My second question: what's the easiest way to transition into an elgrip? Is it easier to jam through to elgrip, or is it easier to pirouette to elgrip?

 

[BlairBob]

Pirouette to L-grip. Last I remember, I was told and trained the tap was the same, front giants and being able to get into that position being the prerequisite.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Pirouette to L-grip. Last I remember, I was told and trained the tap was the same, front giants and being able to get into that position being the prerequisite.

Thanks.

Now, would you start with a full pirouette (ie starting from a front giant) or with a half pirouette (ie starting from a back giant)?

 

[gymch34]

I agree w/ the piroutte rather than the jam as an entry....the 2 female gymnasts I know who have done that entry have paid for all that jam work with lots of shoulder problems... I would play around w/ both the 1/2 and the full (I'm asuming you mean a healy?) and see which works better. (I dont know boys gymnastics, so take the above w/ a grain of salt.)

Jack Carter has some excellent bar video for sale (available on his gym's website-Carter's Gymnastics in AZ- if you really hunt for it) Its all girls UB, but it has all the specific conditioning you need to do to before you start working inverts, what do do for maintence, upkeep, etc its very educational.

Good luck and be careful!

 

[gymdog]

Jack Carter is SUCH a good bar coach.

I think this video is a good overview and the advice could mostly be converted from regular front giant grip grip to L-grip or mixed grip. Probably the easiest way to get in would be higgins.
http://gymnasticscoaching.com/?p=6116

I mean that's for girls...but he mentions picking up stuff from men's coaches in there.

 

[Valentin]

Hi

I couldn't answer your questions with which is easiest, as it will greatly depend on the gymnast. If you have a gymnast who is good at pirouttes and lacks shoulder flexibility it might be worth the pirouette entry. Personally i would rather teach it from a jam if the gymnast has the facility for it...as that can later be use for a Takamoto, which well is definitely the skill of choice in the COP at the moment. It is assumed that the gymnast can already to a hecht tap giant.

The giant itself is trained similarly to training a front giant. First part is the bail.. This can be taught by using this drill:
1- Setup a mini tramp with a low bar (HB about thigh height is best). Have the gymnast hold the bar in a el-grip. From a couple of bounces the gymnast bouces to that pike you mentioned (With your help). You stop him at that position, and they open up to a handstand and fall to their back onto a super soft mat. You might want to at the start slow down their fall, or make the angle of the mat a little (rather than flat) to help make the fall more comfortable. A gymnast who cannot hang in a dorsal hang with at least! 165deg angle (absolute lowest in my opinion) should not do it from a jam, and you should make them fall onto a raised surface above the bar, otherwise shoulder will be punished.

Once they can do well you can also work a front flyaway from el-grip from a bail. Spotted at first of course.. you are working here on 2 skills - timer/prep for a Balabanov from el-grip, and also on the tap. Once they understand the tap (which is the same as the hecth tap for a front giant) than you can spot them for the full skill. If they have learned the tap well.. they can either tap and pike it into a Russian giant (which you have done already on the bar drill) (this = a C). or the can tap and ride it like a front giant (B).. once again this part is wrist and shoulder flexibility dependent. I would go straight into the pike action as you have already worked this with the drill above.

You should spend time preping the gymnast in el-grip before doing stuff in el-grip. Things like handstand on single rail in el-grip, pirouttes into el-grip and out of el-grip. swings in el-grip (small), beat swings in el-grip etc.. To strengthen the wrists and shoulders. This is important in my opinion as otherwise soon after you start working in el-grip your gymnast if not naturally flexible in that position will start to complain of wrist issues and shoulder issues.
You should also do rotator cuff exercises as injury prevention (which is also inportant for giant inlocates and dislocates)

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

For the kid in question (or at least the one most immediately in question), shoulder flexibility is not an issue. He can comfortably hang in elgrip with his hands at shoulder width without any problem. On rings, he can do a dislocate from inverted hang without any shoulder rise at all - he just drops straight through it with no pain (and seems not to even understand how it could be painful).

I'm curious, though: does a Tak take the same flexibility as a jam? High bar is hardly my area of expertise, but it looks to me like a Tak wouldn't take nearly as much shoulder flexibility.

To clarify: a Russian giant is where the shoulders inlocate on the way up, correct?

 

[Valentin]

From what you describe i would go with the jam entry. Its just going to give him way more options in the long run. However it will take a little longer to learn than doing lets say a healy into double el-grip (which is a C by the way..so it does however has a benefit).
Tha Tak and the Jam have the same flexibility they are actually trained together usually. It makes sense to teach the jam to do the Tak. The shoulder flexibility component is the same, and it is quite high. But your gymnast shouldn't have issues aside from maybe active flexibility ones (strength in those positions, which is why it is important to practice the handstand in el-grip, as well as the russian giant position (that pike on the bar).

That is correct about the russian giant.. the shoulders inlocate and the gymmnast ends up in the manna like position.

 

[BlairBob]

Having seen and been to Jack Carter's clinics, he is definitely good to listen and watch. My friend and former boss holds him in high regard.