WAG Extreme training practices?

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<div class="bbWrapper">DD and I got a chance to watch our level 7&#039;s compete last month and out of the 7 girls competing, 3 did not have their giants in their routines (not quite there yet although they have been doing them on the pit bar). DD&#039;s coaches do not scratch an event unless there is injury, they just have them take the lesser start value. Other teams did have their gymnasts scratch. Either way being so early in the season, I don&#039;t see that as being unusual. However, I think that the practice methods observed went well beyond what is safe. Kids who are exhausted are more likely to get seriously injured. I am thankful that this kid did not. Hope that talking to the HC helps this from occuring again.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Wallflower and dunno, I can see that you are the forum bullies so, I will just try to ignore your nastiness. Btw, when you say &quot;not trying to be rude&quot; or &quot;just saying&quot;... It usually means you&#039;re doing exactly that. <br /> <br /> Thank you to everyone else who responded. Let me explain why I asked the question. I do believe the coach was way out of line who did this. I was told by a group of parents that it was fine and normal. I wanted you guys to weigh in and give me your opinions. I was so happy to find this site because I was looking for a safe environment to ask questions and just bounce things off of others with similar or different experiences than myself. I have been increasingly unhappy with this gym over the last couple of years. There are good things too. Do I think that they realize that the give preferential treatment to the donor families... Maybe not. You see, you can say no, we would never do that! But, when a kid is on the bubble of going up a level, you probably fall in the going up direction. Losing $5G-$10G a year because of a angry donor is rough. I am not defending, just explaining. Again, I will talk to the head coach next week. My dd is not being trained by that coach. Maybe, the head coach will have something to say about it. I just want to have all of the info and facts before I approach her. That&#039;s why I asked for opinions. Maybe, something will be done. I don&#039;t know if I will have to cut and run... I plan on it unless, something is done about the issues. She has always been happy until lately. We have never seen this behavior before. Hopefully, never again. I heard it happened once before with this coach. If you want to hear how it turns out let me know. I don&#039;t want to upset anyone. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> <br /> Again, I came to this site in distress. I hope that I will be bringing happy news and brag alerts too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":o" title="Eek! :o" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":o" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">That situation sounds awful. If things are as they appear, I would leave. <br /> It would be interesting for you to get your daughter&#039;s take on the situation, just to check. I know that my kid once remarked that a gymnast at our gym usually leaves bars in tears. In our case, the coach does not seem to be overly harsh at all, but the gymnast is very frustrated with herself. Also, my own kid once stubbornly attempted kipping until her hands were ripped and bloody. No one made her do that. She just decided she wasn&#039;t quitting until she got it. (She didn&#039;t get it that day, and it took a few weeks to heal her hands. The lesson in patience was invaluable.)</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="mamaS" data-source="post: 215469" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=215469" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-215469">mamaS said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Wallflower and dunno, I can see that you are the forum bullies so, I will just try to ignore your nastiness. Btw, when you say &quot;not trying to be rude&quot; or &quot;just saying&quot;... It usually means you&#039;re doing exactly that. <br /> <br /> Thank you to everyone else who responded. Let me explain why I asked the question. I do believe the coach was way out of line who did this. I was told by a group of parents that it was fine and normal. I wanted you guys to weigh in and give me your opinions. I was so happy to find this site because I was looking for a safe environment to ask questions and just bounce things off of others with similar or different experiences than myself. I have been increasingly unhappy with this gym over the last couple of years. There are good things too. Do I think that they realize that the give preferential treatment to the donor families... Maybe not. You see, you can say no, we would never do that! But, when a kid is on the bubble of going up a level, you probably fall in the going up direction. Losing $5G-$10G a year because of a angry donor is rough. I am not defending, just explaining. Again, I will talk to the head coach next week. My dd is not being trained by that coach. Maybe, the head coach will have something to say about it. I just want to have all of the info and facts before I approach her. That&#039;s why I asked for opinions. Maybe, something will be done. I don&#039;t know if I will have to cut and run... I plan on it unless, something is done about the issues. She has always been happy until lately. We have never seen this behavior before. Hopefully, never again. I heard it happened once before with this coach. If you want to hear how it turns out let me know. I don&#039;t want to upset anyone. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> <br /> Again, I came to this site in distress. I hope that I will be bringing happy news and brag alerts too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":o" title="Eek! :o" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":o" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> regretfully, you got that wrong. i don&#039;t mince words. Merry Christmas.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">mamaS -- Hang tough! All advice here comes with the best intentions (sometimes the delivery is a little tough <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />). Peel back all the chatter and the bottom line message is to be wary (it&#039;s just doesn&#039;t sound like normal behavior based on the limited information we have). It definitely sounds like a discussion with the head coach is a good next step. Hoping we hear some happy news and brags soon!</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Neither dunno nor wallflower need anyone to come to thier defense, but I will say this - they are speaking from experience and not as &quot;bullies&quot;. To the OP, based on this post and the previous one about your gym, there is no way that I would stay at that gym. Run as fast as possible for the nearest exit.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">I agree, cut your losses and leave. You can&#039;t put a price on your child&#039;s emotional and physical well being, damage to that is a much higher price to pay than meet fees.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">WOW! I feel incredibly honored to be mentioned in the same sentence with Dunno. Totally made my day <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Wallflower, You&#039;re honored to be thought of as rude? Wow, that&#039;s an interesting one. There is a differnce in not mincing words and being abrasive and unkind. Like dunno says, she feels the need to respond to all conversations even if she adds nothing. You guys are great together.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Sorry mamaS but I fail to see how either of them were rude to you. In fact they both said what you witnessed was not acceptable and you should leave. What&#039;s rude about that? Wallflower made a very good point that we are only getting your side of the story. Like SGmom pointed out crying kids, bloody hands aren&#039;t always a sign of something horrid going on. I&#039;ve witnessed girls crying during conditioning on DD&#039;s team and being made to stay and finish while sobbing etc. I&#039;m sure to some parents it would be easy to leave the gym and retell the story saying omg this poor child was made to do this for hours and how awful it was. To be honest with you my first thought was you have posted nothing on this board except posts talking badly about your gym. It sort of seems like you are wanting to bash them. You are clearly not happy but seem upset when people tell you to leave. I don&#039;t get what you are looking for. The whole bribery stories and the gym lying to you and now this story all sound a bit like a disgruntled parent. The fact that you stay there makes it seem like you exaggerate these things. <br /> <br /> And if you had been around here longer you would understand why being considered in the same class as dunno is a HUGE compliment!</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">If its abusive and wrong get out!! My experience was DD was being coached liked this I saw it and realized quickly the &quot;culture&quot; of that gym was, this is how it is. I pulled daughter then and there. Guess what, once my DD was gone it fell on the heads of those children whose parents said &quot;my daughter is ok for now&quot; and &quot;it&#039;s better to lay low.&quot; They didnt lay low very long once it was THEIR child After a few other families left the coach was finally let go. Stand up for the kids...all of them. It&#039;s scary and dangerous, serious injury could have occurred...exhausted and alone on bars to practice a skill (giant none the less) that she never had in the first place,for hours??? Scary. What good could possibly have come from that???</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="mamaS" data-source="post: 215480" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=215480" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-215480">mamaS said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Wallflower, You&#039;re honored to be thought of as rude? Wow, that&#039;s an interesting one. There is a differnce in not mincing words and being abrasive and unkind. Like dunno says, she feels the need to respond to all conversations even if she adds nothing. You guys are great together. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Whoa... Calm down mamaS. When you post on a forum, you are going to have all kinds of answers. Some people are just more blunt that others. And remember that we all come here with different experiences that shape our opinions. The best thing to do is take what you want from the posts and forget the rest. For the record, I didn&#039;t find either dunnos or walls posts to be rude. Blunt? Yes. But not rude. And frankly, I&#039;m with wall that being paired with dunno in the same sentence is quite a complement. He is one of the most knowledgable coaches on this forum. He knows what he is talking about - even if he doesn&#039;t always say it politely or eloquently. (thats a man for you...) <br /> <br /> As for your situation - you have to go with your gut. You are the only one who is there witnessing it and you have to do what is right for your child. Having said that, I also know how situations can be taken out of context to make them seem worse than they really are. I have witnessed some things in our gym that I might have interpreted incorrectly had I not known the entire story. I am not saying this is the case, but given that the other parents are not seeing this as an issue, you may be reading into it too much. But regardless, if you are not comfortable, you need to make a switch...</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Christmas rum, anyone? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="mamaS" data-source="post: 215381" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=215381" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-215381">mamaS said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> The kiddo just turned 9. I can&#039;t believe her mom wasn&#039;t the least bit concerned. Maybe I don&#039;t understand but, my mom instinct tells me this is really wrong. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="dunno" data-source="post: 215439" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=215439" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-215439">dunno said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> they actually didn&#039;t know what they were doing. and for reasons on so many levels. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I thought dunno was actually agreeing with you - your mom instinct is right, and what those coaches were doing was wrong. I didn&#039;t read his comments as rude towards you, more towards the gym was how I read it.<br /> <br /> It is actually dangerous to keep doing gymnastics skills when exhausted because by then you can&#039;t do them properly and if you can&#039;t do them properly then you do them wrong and are very likely to mess them up and hurt yourself. Particularly higher level skills. I mean, this was a giant, not a cartwheel.<br /> <br /> I could understand staying at the gym if this is not your child&#039;s coach, as one coach&#039;s attitude is not necessarily the whole gym&#039;s attitude, and there might be other really good coaches who would never do this. However it sounds like you&#039;ve had other problems with this gym. I&#039;m quite surprised at this child&#039;s mother being unconcerned.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Dunno- I apologize for calling female.. oops. <br /> I&#039;m in hell here. My sweet daughters blood, sweat and tears are there. I&#039;ve never known anyone like my little girl. She has grit and fights through adversity, never giving up. She&#039;s still going full blast in training. What I haven&#039;t mentioned is that to switch gyms we would have to travel into another state and region. We live in a very snowy area... treacherous roads... It&#039;s a huge decision to travel several days a week. That&#039;s why I want to talk with hc and try to fix things. Will it work? Probably not but, at least I will let them know why I choose to move her. Is it gut wrenching? Yes! My hope is that the coach who does this will be told to stop or go somewhere else. I am probably mistaken but, I felt the comments were jabbing me more than helping me. I will update you on how it goes. Again, I apologise to you dunno. I misunderstood your message. I will take that Christmas rum.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Yes, I will stand up for the littles. That was never a question. Thank you for your support <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="dunno" data-source="post: 215441" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=215441" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-215441">dunno said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> i&#039;m reminded of an old saying...more money than brains or misery loves company. not being rude here. just sayin.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <br /> mamaS may referring to this post. it was tongue and cheek, but she wouldn&#039;t know this as my humor cause she hasn&#039;t been around here long enough.<br /> <br /> but it comes from experience in and out of gym. the people at this gym either have more money than brains or they are miserable and love the company of miserable coaches that keep their gymnasts at bars for 2 1/2 hours. for anything. if i am to believe mamaS and what SHE posted, the coaches are idiots as well the parents that support this program. that&#039;s all.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="mamaS" data-source="post: 215469" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=215469" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-215469">mamaS said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Wallflower and dunno, I can see that you are the forum bullies so, I will just try to ignore your nastiness. Btw, when you say &quot;not trying to be rude&quot; or &quot;just saying&quot;... It usually means you&#039;re doing exactly that. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> i know as the o/p of a thread, you can somtimes read replies in a way they weren&#039;t meant. But neither Dunno or Wallflower are bullies in any way shape or form. <br /> <br /> I think you have had some very good, constructive advice here. I don&#039;t know how much you know about gymnastics, or how long you&#039;ve been involved, but many of us have been through the 80&#039;s bullying culture in gymnastics and don&#039;t want to see it still happening. It&#039;s not necessary and often has the opposite effect. Believe me, I&#039;ve been in a gym with bullying coaches. Dunno and wallflower are not, what your gym is doing is.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">I&#039;m no gymnastics expert like some on here - I&#039;m just responding from a human standpoint. Yes, gymnastics requires hard work and sometimes physical pain, but put the two events you&#039;ve described (accepting bribes for favoritism and physical/mental abuse) in the context of a private elementary school and see how you would react. It&#039;s awful. It&#039;s hard to see how it&#039;s possible for there to be sufficient good to overcome such despicable practices.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">I have seen similar training methods used at one of our prior gyms that was a &quot;National Team Training Center&quot; and the &quot;methods&quot; (and I say that sarcastically) were usually reserved for one or two gymnasts...the parents , at the time, thought the coaches &quot;obviously knew what they were doing&quot; but as one poster said, the other kids witnessing this felt awful...I watched one mother (of another kid in the gym , not the victim) march right into the gym during one of these tirades, tell said &quot;National Team Training&quot; coach that she was taking her kid out of the gym right then and there , never to do gymnastics again (and the girl was pretty talented, was 10 yo , L9 and had done well at easterns ..but she now does soccer)....the 2 girls who were the recipients of this type of &quot;training&quot; eventually left that gym, and have thrived in their new settings...one of the moms felt really guilty because her daughter had developed a lot of fears before she left and as she said , &quot;I should have done it 4 years ago&quot;....<br /> <br /> What would worry me in all this (among other things) is that there was a study several years back about injuries and when they occur in relation to practice time, and the bulk of the injuries occured in the last 15-20 minutes of training...i.e. when they were the most fatigued. So the scenario as described is so ripe for injury...</div>
 
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