WAG Extreme training practices?

[Moxiegrl83]

I am pretty sure that is a child abuse person walked into a gymnastics facility during training, especially during stretching or conditioning, the gym would be closed down, atleast something would happen. So, I'm not sure if reporting this as child abuse would be right. It would be really effective, but not really fair to the nature of gymnastic training.


I still don't get this. Maybe my gym just isn't that tough, but pretty much anyone can walk in at any time, and not think child abuse. Even during stretching and conditioning.

 

[cbone]

Get out of there! Yesterday!!!

 

[DisMom]

Wallflower and dunno, I can see that you are the forum bullies so, I will just try to ignore your nastiness. Btw, when you say "not trying to be rude" or "just saying"... It usually means you're doing exactly that.

Thank you to everyone else who responded. Let me explain why I asked the question. I do believe the coach was way out of line who did this. I was told by a group of parents that it was fine and normal. I wanted you guys to weigh in and give me your opinions. I was so happy to find this site because I was looking for a safe environment to ask questions and just bounce things off of others with similar or different experiences than myself. I have been increasingly unhappy with this gym over the last couple of years. There are good things too. Do I think that they realize that the give preferential treatment to the donor families... Maybe not. You see, you can say no, we would never do that! But, when a kid is on the bubble of going up a level, you probably fall in the going up direction. Losing $5G-$10G a year because of a angry donor is rough. I am not defending, just explaining. Again, I will talk to the head coach next week. My dd is not being trained by that coach. Maybe, the head coach will have something to say about it. I just want to have all of the info and facts before I approach her. That's why I asked for opinions. Maybe, something will be done. I don't know if I will have to cut and run... I plan on it unless, something is done about the issues. She has always been happy until lately. We have never seen this behavior before. Hopefully, never again. I heard it happened once before with this coach. If you want to hear how it turns out let me know. I don't want to upset anyone.
Again, I came to this site in distress. I hope that I will be bringing happy news and brag alerts too.

I guess if they are bullies, then I am one, too, based on what I am about to say, even though I truly don't mean to be rude.

Clearly, this is unacceptable. You know it. Others know it. You don't need our validation that this was awful.

But back to Wallflower's initial "rude" post. She (? sorry! Don't know...) has a valid point. A huge amount of what anyone reads on any message board on the internet is exaggerated, at least to some degree. Everyone should totally question what they read on the internet...on this or any other user-content-based site.

Perhaps the initial post was 100% accurate. Perhaps it was grossly exaggerated. Perhaps it was actually underplayed and the reality was way worse. We have no way of knowing, but people are totally right to question whatever they read on the internet. To NOT do so is an egregious error in judgement.

My opinion--and obviously that is all it is--the OP posted the situation exactly as she INTERPRETED it. She posted what she saw/thought she saw and heard. The OP already has a bad view of this gym. Thus, everything she sees is going to be filtered through those glasses.

My further opinion...I would not go talk to the HC about this. It was not YOUR child. The parent of the child is aware of what happened and, for better or worse, isn't concerned about it. It isn't your business. If you don't like how the gym runs, don't go there. In our gym, the HC would not even participate in a conversation about another child with someone who is not the parent. It would be wholly inappropriate to do so when your child is not involved.

For the record, I agree that this is a horrible gym, if what has been posted here is even close to true. Forget about this incident...the fact that kids get treated differently based on charitable donations made by the parents would have me running for the hills.

 

[cbone]

DisMom- I have to agree with you. Stories often get exagerated and I believe that many people come on here with their stories to get validation for their feelings, not advice like they say they want. That creates an environment where exageration is almost encouraged and is certainly rewarded. I'm not saying that OP is exagerating in this instance, only that I always consider that angle when I read posts.

I'm in a position where I try hard not to be contrarian here (I came in with guns blazing at first and developed quite a following for the wrong reasons). For that reason, I shut my mouth a lot. That said, what you said is what I thought- everyone knows it's a bad situation for OP's family. If that's the case, why are we talking about it? Life's too short to be in caustic relationships- GET OUT!

 

[mamaS]

Ok, I try to take what people say here at face value. I appreciate your opinions. What gets tiring is the echos. I hear ya! You think I should leave....!
I disagree with disomom on the notion that if it isn't my child, I should say nothing. If a child is being mistreated, it's the whole world's business. Here's what I found out. Hc said the kid was given the option of getting down and asked to stay. The mom said she was sore the next day, rips were minor and she was emotionally ok. Hc said it was rare but, they felt it would be worse to let her move on without facing her fears. Attorney friend said it was a very big stretch that this was abuse based on all that we know. As far as the donation thing goes, I think any appearance of unfairness based on money is really wrong. I cannot prove it, nor would it matter if I could. Again, I understand that people sometimes exaggerate but, why would you assume that? It is offensive to someone who just poured their heart out to hear that. I found it insulting. That being said, we are making the switch to the new gym. I will be very careful how I word things from here on out. Only happy posts.

 

[Moxiegrl83]

I don't think anyone here said you personally exaggerated, just that you can't take everything you read on a forum as the gospel truth. I personally am glad you talked to the HC. Whether it is your child or not, if something you see in a practice makes you feel that uncomfortable, then you should be able to talk about it. Your child is in these same people's hands.

 

[gymgal]

Here's what I found out. Hc said the kid was given the option of getting down and asked to stay. The mom said she was sore the next day, rips were minor and she was emotionally ok. Hc said it was rare but, they felt it would be worse to let her move on without facing her fears. Attorney friend said it was a very big stretch that this was abuse based on all that we know...........

Again, I understand that people sometimes exaggerate but, why would you assume that? It is offensive to someone who just poured their heart out to hear that. I found it insulting. That being said, we are making the switch to the new gym. I will be very careful how I word things from here on out. Only happy posts.

This is pretty much what I expected which is why it's important NOT to jump to conclusions as a parent at the gym or a reader on this forum . The way it was originally posted, it sounded like the coach forced the girl to stay and the rips were really bad. This was not the case. It's not a matter of "assuming" you purposely exaggerated - more like assuming you did not have all the information to make an informed opinion and your concern for the situation may have unintentionally clouded your perception of the event. It happens to all of us in times of stress. And stay here long enough, you be able to read into the posts where exaggeration (purposeful or not) is likely.

You did the right thing by asking for opinions here and talking with the coach because it was concerning to you and the possibility of it happening to your child.

Sounds like you made the right decision for you and your dd. And don't feel like you have to only post happy posts here. You just have to be prepared for all sorts of responses. Take what helps you and ignore the rest... Or read them - you may be surprised that they offer insight when you get past the bluntness.

Btw - I still disagree with the practice of allowing a child to stay on an event long past exhaustion even if she asks to stay. But it doesn't sound like this is a typical occurrance and we don't actually know how tired she really was. Anxiety can mimic exhaustion symptoms. I don't know how much good it did for her to not have a coach there helping her inch toward independence but some girls do better working out the fear on their own (not my dd but we have some in the gym like this)

 

[cbone]

mamaS, I don't know that people typically assume that people are exaggerating, but it's wise to take a measured approach. This thread is a perfect example. It went from the child being a sobbing, bloody mess to this could be abuse to call the authorities! The gym in question could have its reputation irreparably harmed by this type of discussion. It could ruin this gym and people's ability to earn a living. People have to be careful aboyt overreacting- especially when we find out that the rips were "minor" and that the child asked to keep working on the skill that caused you enough concern to post it here!!!

Hopefully you don't consider this post an "echo" since I've responded in a much more specific manner.

 

[gymcoach26]

sorry you feel offended by the suggestions to take things on the Internet with a grain of salt. It is a good point though. Your first post feels very different from your last. I'm not saying you exagerated. I do think you originally posted as you interpreted the situation and there is nothing wrong with venting or expressing anger or concern but as we can see the situation may have been different than you originally interpreted and posted so other users are correct in not taking everything you read at face value. Case in point..

The next day in practice they made her stay on the bars for two and a half hours. After an 1 hour 45 she was choking back tears. Her face was pooring sweat and she was beet red. While everyone was on on floor, the coaches left her there to work it alone. They would yell across the gym at her. They made her attempt one after another for the whole 2 1/2 hours. By the end she was collapsing after every attempt and crying out of exhaustion. When I picked up dd, I saw the little girl. She was a sobbing mess, her arms were shaking and she had nasty, bloody rips.

I took this to mean the coaches did not give her a choice to stop and she was being forced to continue. Yelling across the gym sounded like you ment criticism. Then...

Here's what I found out. Hc said the kid was given the option of getting down and asked to stay. The mom said she was sore the next day, rips were minor and she was emotionally ok. Hc said it was rare but, they felt it would be worse to let her move on without facing her fears. Attorney friend said it was a very big stretch that this was abuse based on all that we know. As far as the donation thing goes, I think any appearance of unfairness based on money is really wrong. I cannot prove it, nor would it matter if I could.

2 different feels, I'm sure both true to the best of your knowledge, but still a great example to take things with a grain of salt.

PS even if child was given a choice she should have been made to come down once showing signs of weakness or tiredness.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

This is pretty much what I expected which is why it's important NOT to jump to conclusions as a parent at the gym or a reader on this forum . The way it was originally posted, it sounded like the coach forced the girl to stay and the rips were really bad. This was not the case. It's not a matter of "assuming" you purposely exaggerated - more like assuming you did not have all the information to make an informed opinion and your concern for the situation may have unintentionally clouded your perception of the event. It happens to all of us in times of stress. And stay here long enough, you be able to read into the posts where exaggeration (purposeful or not) is likely.

You did the right thing by asking for opinions here and talking with the coach because it was concerning to you and the possibility of it happening to your child.

Sounds like you made the right decision for you and your dd. And don't feel like you have to only post happy posts here. You just have to be prepared for all sorts of responses. Take what helps you and ignore the rest... Or read them - you may be surprised that they offer insight when you get past the bluntness.

Btw - I still disagree with the practice of allowing a child to stay on an event long past exhaustion even if she asks to stay. But it doesn't sound like this is a typical occurrance and we don't actually know how tired she really was. Anxiety can mimic exhaustion symptoms. I don't know how much good it did for her to not have a coach there helping her inch toward independence but some girls do better working out the fear on their own (not my dd but we have some in the gym like this)

just a reminder, it's the coaches that run the asylum, not the athletes. and especially a child that age and 2 1/2 hours at bars. fear or no fear, you don't stay on bars by yourself for that long trying to work thru anything. it's a frickin giant swing. not a shaposh gone bad day 2 of the Olympic Games...

 

[mamaS]

Ok, to make a long story longer... I didn't buy it. The kid looked like she was was desperate to get down. I could hear the coach yelling at her. Coach could have said "you can get down but, if you do.. you can kiss level 7 goodbye". HC had a hard time looking me in the eye. I took what the mom said with a grain of salt. She drives her kid. All I know is the girls were talking about it at break in hushed tones. One said. "I guess it's the only way to learn". I didn't like this at all.

No, I didn't exaggerate at all! I left because this is what happened. Her hands were bloody and she was weeping. I felt they were feeding me bull. So, Gymgal, I guess I wasn't clear when I posted the response from hc that I didn't believe it what she was saying. The hc already knew all about it, even though she wasn't there. I think there was concern enough to discuss it before I said anything.

Anyway, I'm not upset with anyone. It's hard to get tone when you're reading text. I'll try harder not to sound that way. I was smiling when I said the echo thing. I think I need to add a lol for good measure.

I just want to be at a gym that's consistant and every kid gets equal time for the training they paid for. And I'd like it to be safe. I do really appreciate your thoughts.

 

[cbone]

At the end of the day, you and your family will be in a better situation. That's what REALLY matters. Good luck on the gym hunt!

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

At the end of the day, you and your family will be in a better situation. That's what REALLY matters. Good luck on the gym hunt!

From what the Op has said it is not the gym 'hunt' that has held off a change, but the gym hike. Good luck mamaS.

 

[mado4]

why was the mom not concerned at all ? Is it a bad gym mom ? Did she know what was going on ? Maybe the whole story had a "background" ? Was she working on straps ? What was she exactly trying to do on bars ? Was she doing it over a pit ?
The reason I am asking is that "some" things might look different from a parent view than from a coach view...

And calling CPS ..O.O …without KNOWING EXACTLY what happened and WHY ….I would not do that step..

 

[Gymmommy71]

This is the gym that's not doing L6 and they had all of their last year L5's either repeat L5 or skip right to L7, right? And then a few of the borderline kids got suddenly moved to L7 after monetary donations by their parents? I remember your older post on the topic. Uggh...:/ I tell you this, if my DD 10 was put in that situation, and a coach told her "if you get down you can kiss L7 good-bye"...she would have been "fine w/ me" and would have got down and had her grips off in record time . Then her and I would have been off looking for another gym w/ a L6 team the next day (and driving distance wouldn't have mattered). Of course, a parent who would go to the extreme of essentially "buying their kid's way into L7" isn't going to feel the way that I do, and is probably putting the same type of "you do it...or else!" pressure on them . Its a shame these girls are being pressured to skip a level by all involved (their parents, coaches) when they aren't ready on the event that (IMO) is the hardest to pick up quickly. They are probably going to end up hating gymnastics over all this unnecessary pressure.

 

[mamaS]

Well, mom wasn't concerned. She said "she'll survive". She was swinging giants.. Or trying to. She never made one. No straps, she was over very thick mats on top of a pit
A lot of fishy finances. I am happy to be finding peace in our hearts. We did all that we could. A great coach that I met through camp told me that this gym marched to the beat of a very different drum than most. We will be so much better as time goes on.

 

[Moxiegrl83]

A little longer drive for a good feeling about your gym is well worth it. Not even including this issue, it sounds like you've had some other major problems as well. Let us know how it goes at the new gym!

 

[mommyof1]

I still don't get this. Maybe my gym just isn't that tough, but pretty much anyone can walk in at any time, and not think child abuse. Even during stretching and conditioning.

Same thing with our gym. I don't think I have ever witnessed a coach yelling or anyone over the age of five crying. During conditioning, they don't cry, they cheer for each other. We don't do TOPS or have elites, but I don't think making the kids cry would change that.