WAG Extreme training practices?

[GymBee97]

my mom instinct tells me this is really wrong.

Listen to that lilttle voice and RUN don't walk to another gym that puts the kids health above all else.
this gym is just in it for the money and doesn't give a crap about the skills, the kids or anything else. Not the program I would want my daughter to even be exposed to!!

 

[bogwoppit]

Just another thought to the OP, if you choose to keep your child there, as she is not the one being abused, and it only happens once in awhile. When children are witnesses to systematic abuse, it changes the person they are, it damages them and they lose faith in the adults around them. They see a child being mistreated and begin to fear that they will be next, they act differently and a culture of fear is created. Living under that regime has terrible effects on children. I know this for sure.

 

[GymBee97]

Dunno- I apologize for calling female.. oops.
I'm in hell here. My sweet daughters blood, sweat and tears are there. I've never known anyone like my little girl. She has grit and fights through adversity, never giving up. She's still going full blast in training. What I haven't mentioned is that to switch gyms we would have to travel into another state and region. We live in a very snowy area... treacherous roads... It's a huge decision to travel several days a week. That's why I want to talk with hc and try to fix things. Will it work? Probably not but, at least I will let them know why I choose to move her. Is it gut wrenching? Yes! My hope is that the coach who does this will be told to stop or go somewhere else. I am probably mistaken but, I felt the comments were jabbing me more than helping me. I will update you on how it goes. Again, I apologise to you dunno. I misunderstood your message. I will take that Christmas rum.

It's all in what you get use to. I live in an area where we could wake up to 6 - 12 inches fall overnight and like any area that gets regular snow fall they are very good at getting things cleaned up very quickly. The shortest drive I've ever had to a gym for my kids was 25 - 30 min on only small back roads. Yup we did it in all types of weather. Right now we are about 30 - 35 min away and now we can do the highway or the backroads which is good to have the options as the 4pm time for drop off is right at the begining of rush hour and can have lots of traffic in the ski season or in the summer going to lakes etc. In the end I've missed practices for DD because of snow or really bad weather - I never risk my life or my families live because of weather.

It is very hard to make the choice to move. But everyone I know that has moved from what they see as a bad situation at a gym has always been SOOOOOO happy after they made the move. Kids adapt quickly and will make new friends. Look for a program that doesn't raise red flags for you. Where you are just isn't a good fit for you - your mommy red flags are waving fast in your face listen to your little voice and find the gym with the program that meets your needs and doesn't make you feel like your leaving your child in a dangerous situatuation. Yes you have alot of time and money invested but for me that wouldn't be enough to continue to expose my DD to a situation that give me that creepy feeling you have described.

 

[ellabella]

Moves are hard and it sounds like you would have quite the journey to another gym, but it would be worth it to get your daughter out of this environment. If the other gym is not an option I would just pull my child out of gymnastics completely. I wouldn't allow her to be in that place nor would I want to support it with my money. Like several people have pointed out even exposure to the abuse can harm your child. We drive 60 min + to gym 6 days a week. We don't have snow, but freeways that can make the drive double the time on bad days. For us it's worth it. You may decide the drive to the other gym is not worth it for your family, but I wouldn't leave my child there.

 

[gasrgoose]

A thought for the OP... Your obviously in a difficult situation with no other gym in a reasonable driving area, as you stated. My suggestion is to start introducing another sport to your child. I'm not saying pull her out of gymnastics tomorrow (though that might not be a bad idea). If your daughter loves the sport like mine it would be hard to make her quit. But the problems you've listed are beyond tolerable in my mind. So find her something else to do, she doesn't have to be a gymnast.

As a side note, I had a similar reaction to Dunno when I first posted on the forum. I'm the person who said to him " As with most of your posts you add nothing to the conversation but feel you must reply to every thread". When I first read on the forum the only posts of his I saw were his one liners (that are humorous to him).You'll realize most people here think he's "great" and he does offer plenty of good advice and sometimes his posts are humorous. But like all of us he's not perfect and some of his replies aren't very useful. But oh well we aren't paying him for his advice either. Take what advice you like here and leave the rest.

Good luck with your situation and Merry Christmas or happy whatever you might celebrate.

 

[sglemon]

First, I would really think it through about reporting it to authorities, CPS, etc... because it could have some very undesirable consequences to you and your DD.

Second, if you are truely upset about what has happend, why haven't you left? If something like that effected me as it did you, I wouldn't step foot back into the gym. Even it isn't an option to move, Gymnastics isn't the only sport out there. Especially if this is something you DD witnesses over and over again, don't you think it will change her? You are her mother, you need to decide what is best for her. I can't sit back and tell you what to do. You are obviously not happy with your current gym, whether the donations or abuse. Take your feelings out of the equation, what are your DDs feeling to what happens around her.



From all of your posts, you have 2 options, 1. stay at the gym and invest in a psychologist for your DD or 2. quit that gym.



Final note, our level 7s don't compete unless they have all of their skills. That is how it is around here. Our coaches want to ensure our gymnasts safety on all the apparatus before letting them compete. They do not compete on just 3 apparatus, if they don't have their skills on a 4th. But according to many here, our gym is wierd. But to me, it is a safety issue. I am not raising an Olympian, I am raising a young girl with a huge future in whatever she decides to do, and for me, her safety is first. I would not have her at a gym that forces girls to compete on apparatus they are not efficient at or work her out, until she is past exhausted. There are too many other things she wants to try in life, and we would walk away from gymnastics if that was her only choice.

 

[bookworm]

First, I would really think it through about reporting it to authorities, CPS, etc... because it could have some very undesirable consequences to you and your DD.

I don't know if this is a CPS issue or not but it shouldn't have "very undesirable consequences to you and your DD" because reporting to CPS, at least in our neck of the woods, is anonymous...unless of course the OP shares the fact that she was the one who reported the gym/coach. I would hate to think that someone would not report suspected child abuse because they think they will be outed.

And if I was to the point of reporting my gym and or coaches to CPS, we would be done at that facility....

 

[mamaS]

To make a long story longer.. dd has never witnessed this kind of coaching before that night. One mom said it happened a couple of years ago. DD thought the little girl was more frustrated and upset than physically hurt. Were her rips awful? Not awful, but there! As a mom, I take exception. I never used the word bribe when I talked about the donors but, it kind of boils down to it. She does have another sport. She is an amazing runner. She placed 11th in state out of 250 in her first year of cross country. She wasn't fully training for it because of gym. She loves gym, though. I will do what I need to do to resolve this issue. As far as quitting the sport? You know what? I think gym has given her such strength and confidence. The good far exceeds the bad. We will make the trek to the other gym before we stop. If she wanted to be done, I would do it. Here are the questions I will ask hc..
1. Was she aware that this incident took place? (She wasn't there)
2. What does she think about this training method?
3. Does she know that the donor system gives people the distinct inpression that certain kids are getting special treatment?

I want to hear what she has to say. What is her take? Anyway, thanks for your help.

 

[sglemon]

I don't know if this is a CPS issue or not but it shouldn't have "very undesirable consequences to you and your DD" because reporting to CPS, at least in our neck of the woods, is anonymous...unless of course the OP shares the fact that she was the one who reported the gym/coach. I would hate to think that someone would not report suspected child abuse because they think they will be outed.

And if I was to the point of reporting my gym and or coaches to CPS, we would be done at that facility....

I would agree, except for one small detail. She posted about it on a very public board. You can't underestimate the people who read this board. I know we have several ex coaches, coaches, gymnasts, etc... who frequent the board.

 

[mamaS]

I would agree, except for one small detail. She posted about it on a very public board. You can't underestimate the people who read this board. I know we have several ex coaches, coaches, gymnasts, etc... who frequent the board.

Actually, I feel a little bit paranoid about that. I figure there are folks from my neck of the woods that frequent the board. Here's the thing, I came on just to ask if anyone had seen this type of training before. I got lots of info. I will call a lawyer friend that deals with cps all of the time. What's sad where we live and maybe it's that way everywhere, is that emotional abuse isn't really a crime. I would like to know if putting a kid up on a high bar to do giants for a long peiod of time is. The mom was 100% willing and chose to have her kid do it. Good gosh it's wrong but, is it a crime. I will find out.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

In a little response to this thread, I can't believe any parent would stand by and allow that to happen to his or her daughter. But as the parent of a 6 year old in gymnastics, what is acceptable treatment by the coaches? Some think pushing on level 4s in stretching to the points of tears is acceptable. Some think isolating a kid to do conditioning as punishment is acceptable. Some think children driven to tears during conditioning is acceptable. If I saw any of these thing happening on a consistent basis with DD's group of children in the gym (ages 6-7), I would have to consider a new gym or sport change. So maybe I'm extra sensitive. I do think a 6 year old needs to be treated differently from a 9 year old, but that is still very young. What is in this girl's future being treated like that? So what is typically tolerated as acceptable? This whole thing has me very worried about our future in the sport.

 

[sglemon]

In a little response to this thread, I can't believe any parent would stand by and allow that to happen to his or her daughter. But as the parent of a 6 year old in gymnastics, what is acceptable treatment by the coaches? Some think pushing on level 4s in stretching to the points of tears is acceptable. Some think isolating a kid to do conditioning as punishment is acceptable. Some think children driven to tears during conditioning is acceptable. If I saw any of these thing happening on a consistent basis with DD's group of children in the gym (ages 6-7), I would have to consider a new gym or sport change. So maybe I'm extra sensitive. I do think a 6 year old needs to be treated differently from a 9 year old, but that is still very young. What is in this girl's future being treated like that? So what is typically tolerated as acceptable? This whole thing has me very worried about our future in the sport.

You can control your DD's world as far as gymnastics goes. It will be your call, to what is acceptable or not with your DD. I agree with your assessment, though. But, I wouldn't get hung up on what happens elsewhere. I would like to think it was an isolated incident. Isolated incidences happens all the time in all kinds of sports, from the cheerleader with a stomach bug forced to compete to a young wrestler that is pick, thrown down and jumped on, until a collar bone snaps. To some, you can argue child abuse. As a mother, it is your decision on what you are going to tolerate with your own child.

In the end, I think there is still enough good out there, that the bad stuff remains isolated.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Just another thought to the OP, if you choose to keep your child there, as she is not the one being abused, and it only happens once in awhile. When children are witnesses to systematic abuse, it changes the person they are, it damages them and they lose faith in the adults around them. They see a child being mistreated and begin to fear that they will be next, they act differently and a culture of fear is created. Living under that regime has terrible effects on children. I know this for sure.

preach, baby, preach! the truth shall set you free!!

 

[kayjaybe]

In a little response to this thread, I can't believe any parent would stand by and allow that to happen to his or her daughter. But as the parent of a 6 year old in gymnastics, what is acceptable treatment by the coaches? Some think pushing on level 4s in stretching to the points of tears is acceptable. Some think isolating a kid to do conditioning as punishment is acceptable. Some think children driven to tears during conditioning is acceptable. If I saw any of these thing happening on a consistent basis with DD's group of children in the gym (ages 6-7), I would have to consider a new gym or sport change. So maybe I'm extra sensitive. I do think a 6 year old needs to be treated differently from a 9 year old, but that is still very young. What is in this girl's future being treated like that? So what is typically tolerated as acceptable? This whole thing has me very worried about our future in the sport.

ITA with this. There was an incident where our level 3/4s were being pushed down into oversplits by a new coach. Half the group was in tears. These kids were ages 6-8, for the most part. Several parents complained and that coach is no longer there. For the most part, I stay out of how the coaches work with the kids, but I will speak up if something seems out of line or not age-appropriate.

I do see girls in tears in the gym, but it is out of their own frustration (or fear), not from being worked so hard on something that they can barely stand. My gym does not produce Olympic-caliber gymnasts, but we place solidly in local, state, regional and national meets. The coaches do push the girls when they need it, but I have not yet seen it go overboard.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Actually, I feel a little bit paranoid about that. I figure there are folks from my neck of the woods that frequent the board. Here's the thing, I came on just to ask if anyone had seen this type of training before. I got lots of info. I will call a lawyer friend that deals with cps all of the time. What's sad where we live and maybe it's that way everywhere, is that emotional abuse isn't really a crime. I would like to know if putting a kid up on a high bar to do giants for a long peiod of time is. The mom was 100% willing and chose to have her kid do it. Good gosh it's wrong but, is it a crime. I will find out.

this needs to be documented and sent along to USA Gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

A thought for the OP... Your obviously in a difficult situation with no other gym in a reasonable driving area, as you stated. My suggestion is to start introducing another sport to your child. I'm not saying pull her out of gymnastics tomorrow (though that might not be a bad idea). If your daughter loves the sport like mine it would be hard to make her quit. But the problems you've listed are beyond tolerable in my mind. So find her something else to do, she doesn't have to be a gymnast.



As a side note, I had a similar reaction to Dunno when I first posted on the forum. I'm the person who said to him " As with most of your posts you add nothing to the conversation but feel you must reply to every thread". When I first read on the forum the only posts of his I saw were his one liners (that are humorous to him).You'll realize most people here think he's "great" and he does offer plenty of good advice and sometimes his posts are humorous. But like all of us he's not perfect and some of his replies aren't very useful. But oh well we aren't paying him for his advice either. Take what advice you like here and leave the rest.

Good luck with your situation and Merry Christmas or happy whatever you might celebrate.

no hard feelings here. how can we kiss and make up thru the internet? Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!

 

[mamaS]

no hard feelings here. how can we kiss and make up thru the internet? Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!

Merry Christmas! No hard feelings.

 

[Kiwi]

dd has never witnessed this kind of coaching before that night. One mom said it happened a couple of years ago.

There is a difference between an occasional problem and a culture problem with an entire gym. At our gym I've had a few problems with certain coaches at times and have complained, but things were either resolved or settled down, and we are still there as overall we do like the gym culture. This is what I meant about one coach's attitude not necessarily being the same as all the other coaches or the gym management. It is a big decision to run screaming from the gym because of one isolated incident. However, if it is ongoing and problems are not resolved, that is a different story. I would talk to the management first to see if there is some hope of sorting things out.

 

[profmom]

My one caution would be to make darn sure you know what was happening before you reported anyone. It's hard to imagine a benign interpretation of what you have reported, but I know I've seen my own daughter getting frustrated while working frustrating skills for a very long time in open gym before a coach told her to get off the apparatus and try something else. But as I said, it's hard to imagine how allowing, much less requiring, a child to work on giants for that long is a good idea.

I'm glad the little girl came out of it with only the rips as a physical injury. But physical injuries aren't the only kind of devastating injuries.

I do think you should schedule an appointment with the head coach ASAP and discuss this as well as your other concerns about the gym. I can't remember -- did you ever talk to them about the level thing? What was their response?

 

[sleeplessinnewyork]

Hi! If you celebrate it, Merry Christmas! A few of my thoughts on this,
1)If this girl had fear issues with giants, even small ones, this sort of training can make them very bad, leadiing to mental blocks that can take weeks to overcome. If the girl didn't have any sort of fear issue, one might develop, or she might simply get a very severe dislike, or frustration with giants. When asked to work them in the future, she might get really scared, or simply get frustrated and not put in all her effort.
2) My gym loves to have very long bar workouts, so I know that being on bars for 2.5 hours in really hard! According to you, she was VERY tired and had rips on her hands. In gymnastics, very tired gymnast+pain+frustration+not full effort=injuries! Yes, it doesn't always happen, but very frequently it does! Giants are a somewhat dangerous skill, and injuries can occur if the gymnast isn't focused. The coaches should know this, and be aware that this is really dangerous.
3)Now, how extreme is this? First, this is gymnastics. It is known to be one of the hardest sports in the world, and gymnasts are known to be very tough, both mentally and physically. Coaching and training in this sport often surpasses tha in other sports, especially with kids. The average gymnast will train ten time more than her school soccer team, and be pushed much harder. So, in many gymnastics gym, including mine and many gyms I have visited/trained at, it is not uncommon for kids to be pushed to tears in conditioning, stretching splits, and skill work. In our gym, it is common that if a gymnast is having a sudden onset ridiculous mental block, she will stay at the event until the block is fixed,or something is figured out. Lastly, you said that the last time this occured was a few years ago. Is this incident showing very hard pushing, yes. Is it that extreme and unheard of , ish.
4) About reporting it as child abuse. I did a report on child abuse 2 years ago for school, and I remember reading that there is a special section in the laws that allows for athletic training. Certain rules are , to a degree, let down for coaches. Now does this allow coaches to beat athletes with clubs? No, but it does allow for the fact that athletic training takes a certain amount of pain and pushing. Now, these training methods are common in gyms all over the world. I am pretty sure that is a child abuse person walked into a gymnastics facility during training, especially during stretching or conditioning, the gym would be closed down, atleast something would happen. So, I'm not sure if reporting this as child abuse would be right. It would be really effective, but not really fair to the nature of gymnastic training.
6) lastly, about the entire donation/special treatment, that is just wrong. If that is really happening, you might want to think about leaving. That is ridiculous and unfair.
7)overall, i feel really sorry for the girl, but I am not sure exactly how" cruel and unusual " this is. However, this is coming from a child, so I might not "understand". Getting off the soap box now.