WAG Grace McCallum?…… (US Olympic Team Discussion)

[JBS]

@Ken1978 You will find that the members over at Gymnaverse.com love judging and they are very knowledgeable.

You’ll have to click through the tabs to see the different competitions… but this will show you what some others have come up with…




I also want to let you know that your opinions are welcome here. I do think that the ageism claim is unfounded… but show proof and I’ll look at it.

 

[Deleted member 26718]

I think you are just grasping at straws now. Grace did not win the AA over MyKayla because she was younger.

Posing a valid question isn't "grasping at straws." You seriously don't think age factored into their decision whatsoever? Younger bodies are more resilient. Older bodies are more fragile and prone to injury. I wouldn't even have a problem with that factoring in, but I DO have a problem if they are hiding that. I just wanted to discuss it. See what people thought. But OBVIOUSLY a civil discussion is not possible on a forum where admins are openly hostile.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

But OBVIOUSLY a civil discussion is not possible on a forum where admins are openly hostile.

I‘m sorry if you feel admins are being openly hostile, and we certainly can address specific situations if needed, but I really don’t see JBS acting inappropriately here at all. To be honest, your posts on this thread are pretty aggressive in my opinion. I think in general we have great discussions on Chalkbucket and hear different opinions without people being rude or getting upset, but obviously we do have to put fires out sometimes. Please use the report button or pm us if there’s something you think we should take a look at. Thank you to all for adding to this conversation and let’s keep it nice.

 

[JBS]

Posing a valid question isn't "grasping at straws." You seriously don't think age factored into their decision whatsoever? Younger bodies are more resilient. Older bodies are more fragile and prone to injury. I wouldn't even have a problem with that factoring in, but I DO have a problem if they are hiding that. I just wanted to discuss it. See what people thought. But OBVIOUSLY a civil discussion is not possible on a forum where admins are openly hostile.

@Ken1978 Did you look at the score sheet and how others scored Chellsie's beam routine?

That was what you asked for... right?

I, as well as all of the NBC commentators, pointed out that several of Chellsie's routines, offhand I believe it was her final beam routine that, even given the clear errors, seemed to have a lot lower execution than was expected. As someone who cares about the integrity of all sports, I'd be interested in more knowledgeable people (perhaps those who have judged gymnastics) breaking down the score and seeing how far off it legitimately seems to be, or if it does not.

Notice that the others that judged her second beam routine came up with lower execution than did the actual panel judges.

 

[GymAir]

Chellsie Memmel is a Brevet Judge.

 

[Lady Triple Back]

You know, I looked at the list of judges at the OG. It's sadly that there are just a few famous former gymnasts and great coaches there. Lyubov Adrianova, Elena Davydova, Nadezhda Seile and Vera Kiryashova were still Soviet specialists who doing their job for many years. And it was so nice to see Tanya Gratt there!

 

[gym_dad32608]

Well......We have another data point and this should be worthy of a few more rounds of discussion. How does the saying go? Hate to say I told you so....

This is a complete disaster. Doesn't bode well for Tom when he is one of the top 5 topics trending on twitter. Numbers don't lie, Skinner should have been on this team from a coach putting together a best team to win standpoint.

 

[txgymfan]

I’m so happy for Grace. All of her scores counted toward the team total last night. She was also the most vocal, supporting her teammates, smiling, giving a hug and encouraging word when needed. She did not have the highest difficulty but she also made no major mistakes.

 

[JBS]

Hate to say I told you so....

Wait... you said that Skinner should be in for Chiles?

 

[bogwoppit]

Well......We have another data point and this should be worthy of a few more rounds of discussion. How does the saying go? Hate to say I told you so....

This is a complete disaster. Doesn't bode well for Tom when he is one of the top 5 topics trending on twitter. Numbers don't lie, Skinner should have been on this team from a coach putting together a best team to win standpoint.

A disaster? The US team finally exposed to international scoring, with international judges, hardly a disaster, just reality bites. Anyone who watches elite international gym knows that over scoring in the US is a very real issues. Poor landings, body shapes and inadequate leaps/jumps are going to get slammed.

No, way would Skinner have been a better option. The team as presented was just fine. A real shame Chiles struggled, but she has more going on than just the Olympics.

Perhaps the girls would be better served if they actually competed outside the US?

Moreover, the downfall of USAG, and lack of trust in them by the girls, does not help at all.

I thought the team did great, as great as they ever do at home, they are just facing reality, and some extremely talented competition.

 

[Deleted member 26718]

Well......We have another data point and this should be worthy of a few more rounds of discussion. How does the saying go? Hate to say I told you so....

This is a complete disaster. Doesn't bode well for Tom when he is one of the top 5 topics trending on twitter. Numbers don't lie, Skinner should have been on this team from a coach putting together a best team to win standpoint.

I don't foresee a "discussion" on here. I'll just post facts, and shake my head at the excuses that will be made for why the facts, yet again, don't matter.

At US Olympic team trials, ProScore reported that the team total with Skinner instead of McCallum would be "a couple of tenths" higher.

Now, here at qualifications, unless I've made a calculation error, Skinner's performance not only landed her +0.233 over McCallum both in AA score, but would have also raised the team score by +0.233.

Tom Forster quote from USA Today (as read by Gymcastic, since the article is behind a paywall) "I wanted to re-emphasize, if anyone out there complained about 'USAG only thought about medals', that was not the point. So we did not make decisions over a couple of tenths for another medal. We went on rank order because we thought it was a good order, and I still feel good about it."

My only comment, a rhetorical question - will Tom Forster still 'feel good' if the U.S. misses the gold by 0.2?

 

[Eleven sol]

I don't foresee a "discussion" on here. I'll just post facts, and shake my head at the excuses that will be made for why the facts, yet again, don't matter.

At US Olympic team trials, ProScore reported that the team total with Skinner instead of McCallum would be "a couple of tenths" higher.

Now, here at qualifications, unless I've made a calculation error, Skinner's performance not only landed her +0.233 over McCallum both in AA score, but would have also raised the team score by +0.233.

Tom Forster quote from USA Today (as read by Gymcastic, since the article is behind a paywall) "I wanted to re-emphasize, if anyone out there complained about 'USAG only thought about medals', that was not the point. So we did not make decisions over a couple of tenths for another medal. We went on rank order because we thought it was a good order, and I still feel good about it."

My only comment, a rhetorical question - will Tom Forster still 'feel good' if the U.S. misses the gold by 0.2?

 

[bogwoppit]

I don't foresee a "discussion" on here. I'll just post facts, and shake my head at the excuses that will be made for why the facts, yet again, don't matter.

At US Olympic team trials, ProScore reported that the team total with Skinner instead of McCallum would be "a couple of tenths" higher.

Now, here at qualifications, unless I've made a calculation error, Skinner's performance not only landed her +0.233 over McCallum both in AA score, but would have also raised the team score by +0.233.

Tom Forster quote from USA Today (as read by Gymcastic, since the article is behind a paywall) "I wanted to re-emphasize, if anyone out there complained about 'USAG only thought about medals', that was not the point. So we did not make decisions over a couple of tenths for another medal. We went on rank order because we thought it was a good order, and I still feel good about it."

My only comment, a rhetorical question - will Tom Forster still 'feel good' if the U.S. misses the gold by 0.2?

@Ken1978 what do you want? The team was chosen, the team was sent, the team competed. They got through to TF, girls made EF's. I honestly do not get what you want. Do you just want to ***** about Tom, are you massively invested in one girl over another? What is it?

I am heavily invested in the GB, CAN and USA teams, but really am not losing sleep over the crazy decisions the PTB have made in selecting them. Every team has had it's selection dramas, the USA is far from alone in that.

A few 0.2's here and there might change who wins TF, for sure. But it did not change the outcome of qualifications. Each girls weaknesses on the day did that for hte individuals though.

Skinner likely will never compete again, that is probably brutally hard to swallow, I get it. But the US judges have gifted her for years, as they have Simone's poor landings. I think today all the US girls got a taste of reality, it truly does bite.

Not sure why you think there is no honest discussion here, maybe you are just looking for sycophants?

 

[Eleven sol]

Hindsight is 20/20. If you look at numbers the USA would have benefited most from having Jade Carey on the team rather than as an individual. Bummer.

I’m glad Mikayla was able to go; I knew she would do well under pressure and she did. Looks like she had the meet of her life. So happy for her.

 

[Deleted member 26718]

Hindsight is 20/20. If you look at numbers the USA would have benefited most from having Jade Carey on the team rather than as an individual. Bummer.

This is true. But, did the numbers exist to support that for Jade during trials?

 

[Eleven sol]

This is true. But, did the numbers exist to support that for Jade during trials?

Isn’t that the point? Without monitoring every aspect of a gymnast’s life - the way the Karolyi’s did and which should NEVER EVER happen here in the USA - and even then - there is no way to perfectly predict how a particular athlete will do on a specific day. The USA can absolutely win still. It all comes down to heart, nerves and luck. That’s why the Olympics is so fun to watch. It’s somewhat unpredictable.

Did you watch Golden? You may not like the Tom guy but he treats the gymnasts like human beings. Even if the USA gets second place (horror!), we can not go back to treating our athletes like crap. We have to find a better way to win.

 

[Deleted member 26718]

there is no way to perfectly predict how a particular athlete will do on a specific day.

Trials predicted MyKayla would make a team higher by several tenths. Then at olympic qualifications, we see that she would have made the team higher by several tenths! Sounds like a prediction to me. Counterargument is ... ? Oh yeah: "integrity of the process."

So according to you, selecting the best team based on the best available information (which is, by the way, their job) is "not treating gymnasts like human beings." Got it. Now everyone -- like each other's posts, because that obviously means you're right.

 

[skschlag]

Trials predicted MyKayla would make a team higher by several tenths. Then at olympic qualifications, we see that she would have made the team higher by several tenths! Sounds like a prediction to me. Counterargument is ... ? Oh yeah: "integrity of the process."

So according to you, selecting the best team based on the best available information (which is, by the way, their job) is "not treating gymnasts like human beings." Got it. Now everyone -- like each other's posts, because that obviously means you're right.

Discussions are great, but you do not need to be snarky about people getting likes. Not everyone agrees with you, and that is ok. That is what discussion is about. Please keep it civil.

 

[gym_dad32608]

Wait... you said that Skinner should be in for Chiles?

I never said Skinner should be in for Chiles! You know that, now who is being snarky?

 

[gym_dad32608]

@Ken1978 what do you want? The team was chosen, the team was sent, the team competed. They got through to TF, girls made EF's. I honestly do not get what you want. Do you just want to ***** about Tom, are you massively invested in one girl over another? What is it?

I am heavily invested in the GB, CAN and USA teams, but really am not losing sleep over the crazy decisions the PTB have made in selecting them. Every team has had it's selection dramas, the USA is far from alone in that.

A few 0.2's here and there might change who wins TF, for sure. But it did not change the outcome of qualifications. Each girls weaknesses on the day did that for hte individuals though.

Skinner likely will never compete again, that is probably brutally hard to swallow, I get it. But the US judges have gifted her for years, as they have Simone's poor landings. I think today all the US girls got a taste of reality, it truly does bite.

Not sure why you think there is no honest discussion here, maybe you are just looking for sycophants?

That is the point, this is a message board after all. Where fans and like-minded folks discuss and dissect decisions like the ones that are supposed to be made by team coordinators. It has nothing to do with individual gymnasts, and at least I have been very clear about that from the beginning. Its perfectly fine to debate if the right decisions were done. Think of it as an academic discussion.