WAG Haney under investigation

[amiandjim]

Coaches keeping parents out of the gym is what created a perfect environment for abuse.

Yes you have those crazy parents in every sport that want to coach from the sideline, but I think the majority of us just want some basic expectations and assurance to know that our child is in a safe environment. We are trusting coaches with our most valuable possessions and so yes we expect a level of transparency, especially since we are paying for it. That’s not an unreasonable request.

I think good communication from the gym would go a long way in preventing problems. At the beginning of every year, we sign a contract of parent expectations. A section of that states that parents are allowed to watch practice from the viewing area as long as we do not cause disruption or try to coach from the sidelines. Doing so can get you removed from the gym. I think that’s fair. Our gym has had very few problems with parents I think mainly due to clearly laid out guidelines. I don’t stay to watch my child practice, but I like knowing that option is always available to me. Open viewing can help prevent abusive environments.

It’s never going to perfect, and you will always have crazy parents and awful coaches, but I think if parents and gyms can work together to create a level of mutual respect and trust then I think the culture could be changed for the better.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Excess viewing is destructive however preventing parents from watching protects potential abusers and looks like a gym ( or any child’s activity) has something to hide.

Yes the truth as usual lies in the middle

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I don’t stay to watch my child practice, but I like knowing that option is always available to me. Open viewing can help prevent abusive environments.

This. I pop in just enough to know all is well

 

[JessSyd]

I agree that decent communication can be the key to preventing the negative effects of excessive parent watching.

Sometimes parents feel they have to watch just to be able to have a clue what is going on. How do coaches interact with children, is it really as ‘unfair’ as a kid whinges or is that the perception of an overtired child, what actual group is the child training in at the moment. What level are they actually training! (yes, communication can be that bad). And so on.

We do need to know what is going on because we are ultimately responsible for our child’s safety. If, for example, kids are just told to ‘jump up and put ice on your head’ after a fall from the high bar onto their head, parents need to know that the gym is not following concussion protocols or reporting accidents. A young kid might not think that is worth mentioning because kids take (less serious) tumbles in the gym all the time. Parents need to see these things being managed well.

A gym has to prove they are trustworthy before they can be trusted, and how can they do that if they operate in secrecy?

I am team ‘why shouldn’t I watch’. I like watching my daughter train. She is still young enough so that she likes me watching her train. She often asks me to stay. I find the progressions and the dedication and the conditioning and stuff magical to watch - the slow precision and extrordinary hard work it takes to put together flipping sequences that gymnasts make so easy!

I like sitting with and talking to other parents as their kids train. It is social time for me. We talk about stuff other than gym. Politics, shopping, schools, property prices. And sometimes I just like working on my laptop in the gym. Being there in body but somewhere else with my focus.

I never stay entire practices, but I go straight to gym pickup from work a couple of nights a week (I am not driving past the gym to go home only to turn around and immediately drive back again) so I am there for the last fifty minutes or so.

My daughter’s gym does not ban watching. It would be hard to enforce as it takes place in a large multi sport centre and there are always parents there dropping off, picking up, watching basketball etc. But this gym, at least, communicates relatively well. They have spoken to us about the downsides of watching too much. We know might be asked to sit elsewhere if we are seen coaching from the sidelines or if our child finds us a distraction.

I self monitor. If I find a situation in the gym is making me crazy - and it happens - my husband takes over the drop offs and pick ups.

But sitting in on my kid’s music lessons and tutoring is compulsory. Many parents stay to watch my other child’s soccer team training, and all of them stop to watch the matches.

My kid spends a total of maybe fifteen minutes actively competing a year. (Three competitions). Imagine going a whole soccer season only seeing fifteen minutes of play, or only hearing your kid practice their musical instrument for fifteen minutes a year. If I didn’t watch some practice I would know almost nothing about something that is a huge part of her life. And one day she might not want to share it with me and I will respect that. But now, while she does, we both sort of treasure it. She will grow up and away from me so fast that yes, while I can watch, sometimes I will.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Imagine going a whole soccer season only seeing fifteen minutes of play, or only hearing your kid practice their musical instrument for fifteen minutes a year.

Lot of us do this. No need to imagine. Can’t speak for the whole lot, but me and my kid.....we are cool. She tells me she got her giant. I hope to see it in Oct or perhaps Nov.

Heck she spends hours at school M-F. All I see is a report card.

As far as an instrument goes I’d be thrilled to hear her practice for 15 min but that is a whole separate issue lol. But I’d see winter and spring concert. Might be close to 15 mins.

And my kid is not 6 anymore. I know stuff, because she tells me. Not a ton, but she tells me. I know she is OK because of all the non verbal cues I get. And I know the coaches aren’t abusive because of her and the fact the I would pop in from time to time.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

If your kid is somewhere that completely restricts access that’s a huge red flag.

And if your kid is somewhere that is OK with you watching but you feel you can’t not be there and they aren’t little, then you have a trust issue with the grown ups you are “not” leaving your kids with and that’s a problem for everyone.

And this is not directed to anyone particular person. I don’t know anyone here that well.

I say this to parents IRL all the time. If you don’t trust where you are leaving your kids, be it daycare, music, dance, gym......... then move them, it’s not the right place for you.

 

[JessSyd]

Gosh, I love listening to my kid practicing her instrument. I love listening to the neighbour’s kid practicing his instrument! My kids like watching me work sometimes, and asking me questions about it and giving ideas. I guess different families have different levels of interest in each other’s lives.

And my kid’s school is all about parent participation - helping with reading groups, watching performances, open days, assisting with homework, attending sports days and assemblies and cultural days and so on. (It gets a bit much for working parents, TBH). Even my older child’s high school sends an (auto-generated) email each week outlining her upcoming assignments, recent marks and outstanding homework. (I rarely read it, but it is there if I want it).

But specific to gym,

I think if you feel you NEED to be there all the time there is an issue.

I think if you CAN NOT be there ever because it is banned, there is an issue.

Between those two extremes, after the initial period of establishing trust, I think there is generally a very broad happy medium of watching - from rarely to regularly - that can incorporate each child’s personality and family dynamic without affecting their gymnastics in any negative way.

(And I want to say that my above concussion example was hypothetical. It was actually the soccer club that I got to watch managing a head injury and they did it well.)

 

[duyetanh]

Coaches keeping parents out of the gym is what created a perfect environment for abuse.

Yes you have those crazy parents in every sport that want to coach from the sideline, but I think the majority of us just want some basic expectations and assurance to know that our child is in a safe environment. We are trusting coaches with our most valuable possessions and so yes we expect a level of transparency, especially since we are paying for it. That’s not an unreasonable request.

I think good communication from the gym would go a long way in preventing problems. At the beginning of every year, we sign a contract of parent expectations. A section of that states that parents are allowed to watch practice from the viewing area as long as we do not cause disruption or try to coach from the sidelines. Doing so can get you removed from the gym. I think that’s fair. Our gym has had very few problems with parents I think mainly due to clearly laid out guidelines. I don’t stay to watch my child practice, but I like knowing that option is always available to me. Open viewing can help prevent abusive environments.

It’s never going to perfect, and you will always have crazy parents and awful coaches, but I think if parents and gyms can work together to create a level of mutual respect and trust then I think the culture could be changed for the better.

I think the key words from coach p are "excessive parent viewing." Excessive very easily can lead to obsessive (without it even meaning to happen). Obsessive then leads to unhealthy. If a parent wants to watch once in awhile, sure, wth…I like that at my daughter's gym it is ok to watch on occasion if I want to, which I don't. The issue isn't the parent who watches once in awhile. It is the parent who camps out on an excessive basis. I know from my child that more than one of her friends truly has not wanted their parents sitting there watching practice, it stressed them out. None of these girls could tell their parents this however, they were all too scared. I tried to hint to one mom a few years back who truly was a good friend and got told, "But she likes me being there! She likes to check in with me, and loves me to see what she is doing." Ironically, the mom is still a friend, but the daughter is no longer in gymnastics. This is a bit longwinded, but to sum up, I just think there is a huge difference between the once in awhile drop in parent and the parent who spends practically as much, if not as much/more time in the gym than their child. And I personally feel that the latter is unhealthy for all parties involved for way too many reasons to go into here. I realize those who live at the gym while their child practices for various reasons will disagree, but this is just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[Freddy's Fred]

Exactly!!!!!

I am literally never at the gym, but I reserve the right to be there whenever I want.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I think the key words from coach p are "excessive parent viewing." Excessive very easily can lead to obsessive (without it even meaning to happen). Obsessive then leads to unhealthy. If a parent wants to watch once in awhile, sure, wth…I like that at my daughter's gym it is ok to watch on occasion if I want to, which I don't. The issue isn't the parent who watches once in awhile. It is the parent who camps out on an excessive basis. I know from my child that more than one of her friends truly has not wanted their parents sitting there watching practice, it stressed them out. None of these girls could tell their parents this however, they were all too scared. I tried to hint to one mom a few years back who truly was a good friend and got told, "But she likes me being there! She likes to check in with me, and loves me to see what she is doing." Ironically, the mom is still a friend, but the daughter is no longer in gymnastics. This is a bit longwinded, but to sum up, I just think there is a huge difference between the once in awhile drop in parent and the parent who spends practically as much, if not as much/more time in the gym than their child. And I personally feel that the latter is unhealthy for all parties involved for way too many reasons to go into here. I realize those who live at the gym while their child practices for various reasons will disagree, but this is just my opinion, for what it's worth.

You sound like an amazing parent !

 

[josie55]

One more problem with excessive parent viewing is that it not only impacts the child in question, but the other kids as well. I know my dd doesn't like that certain parents seem to be in the viewing area all of the time. Imagine if you were at your job and someone was sitting in a viewing area watching you for hours on end. It's creepy.

But of course I get that as parents the idea of being completely banned from practice would make one uncomfortable and probably isn't the right approach either.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I remember a parent from another gym stalking our kids from meet to meet . Yep . The. She came up to one of our athletes and hugged her and said something to the extent of “I wish you were my daughter “. Now I am sure that she meant that in a kind way but it absolutely weirded her out .

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I will also add that I have heard seen and witnessed bazaar jealousy from parents that was felt from the child . 100 percent . Sorry folks but it’s not rare , or 5 percent blah blah blah .... people do weird stuff and can’t hide it . It’s a way bigger problem than you realize . I HAVE SEEN PARENTS 100 percent make other kids CRY....

 

[John]

Life is hard situations are never perfect. Life throws curve balls. @coachp how many gymnasts have you made cry?

 

[sevenatenine2]

My daughter had anxiety when she was younger and wanted me to stay. The coaches weren't abusive, but they also weren't always nice (I don't know if that makes sense?), but I think she was a little scared and wanted to know I was there if they ever crossed that line.

It happened one time. My daughter was a L3. They were doing floor routines on a cheer floor they didn't usually use. Athlete 1 did her routine and balked on her back handspring. Athlete 2 did her routine and balked on her bhs (which wasn't unusual--she had a mental block). My kid went and balked oh her back handspring (which WAS unusual--I think it was catching) and the coach lost her mind and started screaming at my daughter in front of the entire viewing room. My daughter, at 6, sat down, put her head in her hands and cried while the coach continued to yell at her.

I hopped up, went to the front desk, asked to speak to the owner immediately. I explained what happened. The owner went and moved the group to another coach, talked to the coach in question, and when the class was over I took my daughter home. The coach in question apologized in person the next time she saw me.

I get it. Coaches are working with young kids, possibly being judged by their bosses by these kids performances, and they get frustrated. I was glad I was there, though, and glad I stood up for my daughter. That was not a typical incident in the gym, and we ended up leaving less than a year later for an Xcel program--because that was what was best for my daughter---but I really have seen both sides of it. I've seen the crazy parents (so much less in Xcel than in JO) but I've also seen coaches make inappropriate choices and act in ways they shouldn't.

I think viewing should always be allowed (esp for those that commute!) but I think the gym should have the right to refuse when it becomes a problem. I know that with Safesport, that's not allowed anymore, so I guess as a coach when a parent gets crazy the only thing you can do is have them leave the program.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I will also add that I have heard seen and witnessed bazaar jealousy from parents that was felt from the child . 100 percent . Sorry folks but it’s not rare , or 5 percent blah blah blah .... people do weird stuff and can’t hide it . It’s a way bigger problem than you realize . I HAVE SEEN PARENTS 100 percent make other kids CRY....

Yes, we all know how awful those parents are. If only they would stay out of the gym and not even go to meets, it sure would make life easier for coaches right?

I'm sorry. I'm in a frustrated state right now with gymnastics anyway, but I don't understand how this thread that started about how a COACH was accused of verbally abusing her gymnasts has turned into a PARENTS are bad or crazy for wanting to stay informed about how our children are being treated and/or just wanting to spend their time watching someone they love do something they love.

Are there crazy gym moms out there? Of course there are. Are there bad coaches out there? Yes there are. Am I tired of coaches with massive egos implying that parents are the problem? Yes, I am.

 

[RTT2]

I will also add that I have heard seen and witnessed bazaar jealousy from parents that was felt from the child . 100 percent . Sorry folks but it’s not rare , or 5 percent blah blah blah .... people do weird stuff and can’t hide it . It’s a way bigger problem than you realize . I HAVE SEEN PARENTS 100 percent make other kids CRY....

There is a mom at our gym who has a bizarre hatred toward my child and has gone out of her way so many times in the last several years to try to hurt my kid's feelings. I think the woman is bat@$#! crazy and steer clear of her.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Yes, we all know how awful those parents are. If only they would stay out of the gym and not even go to meets, it sure would make life easier for coaches right?

Actually it would make life easier for me.

But more importantly it would make life easier for my gymnast. And that’s who concerns me most.

There are parents who are part of the problem.

 

[txgymfan]

I would never sign a contract for my child to be with another adult where I was not allowed to watch any time. It is in the MG Elite contract that was shown earlier in this thread, I think it was part of Geddarts gym, it was a policy at Karolyi’s and I’m sure it’s common in other gyms with coaches who don’t think parents will understand their methods. Most gyms are great but that clause is a red flag.

Yes, I understand that no one wants to work under scrutiny, the gymnasts may not like it, the coaches may not like it. However, in this day and age anyone working with children simply cannot expect to work in an environment without cameras and microphones. I’ve done it. I’ve worked twelve hour days with cameras and microphones and I’ve worked without them. I prefer working without them but I understand it and if I ran a business with children they would be installed in all common areas.

 

[LJL07]

I would never sign a contract for my child to be with another adult where I was not allowed to watch any time. It is in the MG Elite contract that was shown earlier in this thread, I think it was part of Geddarts gym, it was a policy at Karolyi’s and I’m sure it’s common in other gyms with coaches who don’t think parents will understand their methods. Most gyms are great but that clause is a red flag.

Yes, I understand that no one wants to work under scrutiny, the gymnasts may not like it, the coaches may not like it. However, in this day and age anyone working with children simply cannot expect to work in an environment without cameras and microphones. I’ve done it. I’ve worked twelve hour days with cameras and microphones and I’ve worked without them. I prefer working without them but I understand it and if I ran a business with children they would be installed in all common areas.

Both of my girls were in a “day program.” The majority of parents couldn’t watch especially if they were working parents. I work and never watched. As a result, the head coach had carte blanche to do whatever the heck she wanted. Later, she did implement a non viewing policy for a period of time. She also installed recording devices in the lobby and would play back parent conversations to determine who was complaining or had concerns. True story. It took us a long time to figure out just how bad it was. So I do not agree with a non viewing policy.