Parents Hoping for Some Advice RE Xcel vs JO

[Sasha]

What 4 yr old actually and truly knows what a serious competitive gymnast is and how much work it actually takes to become one.

She just likes flippy right now.

And if a relative of mine was planning my daughter's college/Olympic career, busy checking out gyms when I was perfectly content with where my kid was, I would remind that relative that I am the Mommy and they are the Aunt. JMO

Come on guys, let's give this auntie the benefit of the doubt. She didn't say she's going to rip the child away kicking and screaming and go against mom's wishes and turn her into an Olympian at all costs. She didn't come here for advice on how to work out her own personal family dynamics and finances (that I'm aware of). She shared details of many factors in her situation for context, but she came here specifically for our help answering the question of whether Xcel or JO path early on would make a difference in any way to possible future in gymnastics, and if so, what. Her options for gym look semi-limited in her area, and she is hoping to weigh everything to help her family make a decision.

As we all well know on here, with limited gym program options in one's area, sometimes you have to make decisions earlier than you want to not limit your child's future choices. If the only program nearby will have requirements for team track around age 5-6, and her niece is approaching age 5, then now is the time to be collecting information.

We're here for you auntie.

s

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I get what you're saying, but honestly, when my own mother offered to pay for and drive my child to and from ballet, I was more than happy to let her choose the studio.
I am also guessing that this Mommy is okay with the Aunt being "in charge" of the gymnastics aspect of the little girl's life. Otherwise, I would hope to heavens that she would be telling Aunt to stop. And it doesn't sound like she is at all.

Again, JMO, ummm yeah, No

But as you can see below. There is way to much "I" and "We" going on for a child that is not hers. The child has a Mom and Dad.

And you can also see, Mom and Dad are not on board with this. And clearly the childs mother wants a different experience for her daughter at the moment. Perhaps the childs mother is not all that hopped up on professional sports like the rest of the village. It is her right as the actual parent.

Seriously, this Aunt and the rest of the village is way to involved in parenting a child that is not theirs to parent.

Having been an Aunt who was able to supplement some things for my niece. I did let her parents actually parent her. I just wrote the check.

If it were my child I would be telling the village to butt out.

I'm the aunt, but in our family there's a village raising our one and only dear sweet gym girl.

I know the first thing anyone is going to say is "She's only 4 so why rush it?" because that's also what my sister says I think my sister is also afraid she will regress with a new teacher because she's so taken with the ones she has at her current gym.

Thanks for the follow up questions.
I think my sister is more worried about my niece's reaction to a new place than finding one. She says she understands the need to do so at some point but just isn't sure it's urgent to do so.

We understand the commitment that comes with any sport. I work in professional sports, and if she were a boy she'd be on the best possible baseball travel team (also money and travel). As a girl, especially a small one, her options are more limited. She's also doing cheer, but she does not enjoy it nearly as much as gym. The other thing she enjoys is art which she will get to further explore when she starts school.

6. Her dad is simply not interested in extra-curricular activity period. He'd love it if she sat at home and watched Netflix all the time. He wasn't involved as a kid so he doesn't really care for her to be.

Sasha, yes you have it right now. What you said is what I was thinking as well. I just have to make her mother see the benefits. She's worried that the LO is comfortable at her current gym and likes her teachers so she might regress in a new environment. My sister didn't love the other (JO) gym when we went for a preschool class because it was more cold. The current gym is very warm and my sister is very southern so it made a difference to her. Personally, I don't mind more sterile as long as they get the job done.

We know cheer is a short term thing. My mom really wanted her to do it. We actually wanted to put her into a little bit of everything to let her decide what she likes. She's still a bit on the shy side so my mom thought it would bring her out of her shell a bit. We failed on 4th of July as she didn't do the dance with the rest of her team. We know she's not long for cheer unless her personality drastically changes but we thought it would be a good experience for one year. And honestly I think my mom is regretting it now because they do a fundraiser every month. lol

 

[skschlag]

So, family dynamics aside, as really, that is personal and between them..

There is no one right answer here. Gym A, where she is now, might be a great gym to get her going. She is happy there, and likes it. That could change with a gym change. But, if she stays with it, a move is most likely going to happen, and it can get harder as she gets older.

I would talk to everyone involved, and find out what the adults want to do, then do it. If the decision is to stay at Gym A for now, it will not hurt her in the long run. But you do want to have everyone on board with what is happening

Good luck!

 

[Rose7777]

I agree with a PP that this needs to be the mom's decision. My daughter is at a warm and fuzzy gym. It's a purely Xcel gym- a serious Xcel one with a lot of girls winning at states and regionals, but no JO. We also visited the nearby JO gym that is more sterile. I have no doubt that my daughter would have the *potential* to go farther in that gym, but I also know that she would not still be doing gymnastics if she were there. She needs warm and fuzzy. Without it, gymnastics wouldn't be fun for her.

Your sister knows her daughter best. If she wants your niece to be at a warm and fuzzy gym, there's a reason for it.

 

[munchkin3]

Family situations are all different. Don't compare yours to everyone else's.

Perhaps auntie is a bit excited, and I agree, there is ZERO comprehension in a 4 year old as to what they want in gymnastics. BUT without he adults doing the legwork, the girl may be in a less than optimal gym.

Nobody would want their kid in a gym that does not match the objective. Perhaps the objective needs to be clarified.

I remember doing 'feel good, fun gym' when DD was 6, then a bit more serious from 7-10yrs.
We just made the final switch which is with the objective of making it to L10. She is 10.5.

Moving is not that big a deal.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

You sound like you come from a high powered sports family. I get it. I came from one myself. I have three kids now in time consuming sports. We tried a little of everything, and they have settled into things they enjoy. But it sounds like there are way too many people way too invested in this kid's future in sports. Some might call it support, others call it pressure. Mom and Dad need to be the driving force here. If Mom likes the current gym and doesn't want to move, that's what should happen. If Dad doesn't want his little girl spending too much time doing just one sport, and wants her to have a more laid back childhood, that is his right. I have many people who simply would not comprehend my willingness to allow an 8 year old to do 16 hours a week of gymnastics. She is definitely the driving force behind this because I would rather have her in the sport the other two do. I think kids should have the opportunity to excel at something besides just school. But many people don't feel that way. They want their kid to go to school, and just be a kid. What that means, I don't really know because my kids would be bored silly. I digress. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging Mom to go to an evaluation at the JO gym if she is willing to do that. Not all JO gyms are cold, sterile, unfun ,unfriendly places for little kids. A good gym will figure out how to get the job done, with the kids having fun. Just because she had a negative experience at one doesn't mean she will at another. Maybe wait another year until she is 5. The earliest a child can compete Level 4 is 7 and let me tell you 7 year olds are very scarce at Level 4 meets. The 7-8 age group is always the smallest age group, and are often lumped in with the 9 year olds. She doesn't have to be "in training" at 4 to be a good gymnast ready to compete at age 8 or 9. If after that, Mom isn't comfortable, then that should be the end of it, and any pressure from you. Not every family is meant for high powered sports.

 

[GymAuntie]

First off I want to say that I'm shocked at the venom that's been directed at me by a few posters. No one has any clue of the family situation, and I did not go into specifics and still won't. What I will say is everything I do is for information purposes only. The information is then given to her mother to evaluate. I'm not calling the shots, but it is my job in this situation to gather information for consideration. My sister spends her day working on computers and would rather eat glass than even access facebook most nights much less read message boards. She appreciates the information given to her because she doesn't want to have to do it. Now hopefully that will end the whole discussion about my running the show or trying to parent.

Secondly, gymnastics was my sister's choice for her not anyone else's. My sister wants this to be her primary activity probably more than my mother or I do. My mother likes cheer and I'd prefer dance. My dad would prefer a more sporty thing like softball or soccer. In the end, my sister was willing to let her try other things to make sure this is what she liked. She is also not opposed to the gym move because she also had no idea about levels and JO and Xcel and the like. If you are not part of the sport from the ground up, you likely don't know anything more than Shannon Miller and Gabby Douglas. When I was a kid and we watched gymnastics it was always Nationals or Worlds and gymnasts were always Elite. I'm sure most people don't really realize that there's a t-ball equivalent to gymnastics (pre-team). That's why we're here -- to learn and get insight from people who've been there.

They gym originally chosen was found by me because my sister had her in a local program that was not good. They had high school girls with no gym training out there trying to teach 3 year olds to do back handsprings before doing cartwheels. She said "please find me something different." In our area we have 5 possible gyms from closest to farthest away:

1. The "other gym" with 5 YO Pre-team. We went there for a trial. Owners are of Eastern European dissent which is where my sister got the whole "cold" description. It was just a different feel. But it was being looked at from the preschool perspective not the competitive perspective.
2. Chain Gym that does gymnastics but puts more emphasis on cheer now as they are national contenders every year in top level cheer. This one wasn't even a consideration for us because they've pretty much given up on gymnastics. They do compete Xcel but the cheer emphasis made us not even consider a trial class there.
3. Current Gym which I preferred by talking to on the phone because the owner told me to go try out more than one gym to make sure his gym was the right one. That impressed me a lot as did the rest of the conversation. And yes I did tell my sister that I was impressed by him. He said he didn't want any kid to be in the wrong place even if that meant he lost business. These are genuinely good people and effective coaches. I really wish they did JO because she'd stay there forever. And if my niece decided Xcel was good for her, then she'd compete for them. It's not like the gym isn't good for Xcel. They have state and regional finishes. It wasn't until I read here that I realized JO may be what she needs.
4. The really feel good gym that even my sister said was too Sunday School to be effective in coaching. They're delightful people, but their website was so sweet and syrupy that it became an afterthought likely because all 3 of us were coached not caressed if you know what I mean.
5. Chain Gym with over 100 competitive gymnasts. Noted for their fantastic optionals and only gym to produce a D1 Athlete. This gym is a good 30 minutes further than the others so that is part of the reason I don't want to even pursue it at this point. My mom doesn't want to drive that far at this age and I'm okay with that.

Other programs are The Little Gym and similar classes with no skill mastery.

That's it. It's what we had to choose from. And my sister made the trial class appointments and she went to them both and visited the websites of the others. She made the ultimate decision as she will in this one.

Someone asked me to determine the objective. I think the objective is to give her the best foundation so she is able to do with it what she wants. If it's L10 or Elite then we want her to be able to make that choice without something we do hindering her. If it's to quit and play volleyball, we'll have to hope she grows! lol

As for the money, no it won't become an issue. Neither my brother nor I have any plans to have children. We both enjoy travel and spontaneity way too much for that. So unless there's a major downturn in the economy (and I'm talking major downturn), then she will have what she needs for this or anything else she decides to do.

Nobody said this was a must that she go on to the Olympics or College. In fact I thought I was clear in that the family (all of us) just want to give her the tools to do it if she wants to. I think some people here got offended because I'm the one speaking, but that really makes zero difference. The point is I'm here to get thoughts from you all to give my sister so she understands why the move is even necessary. And I can tell her x y and z but hearing from you all makes it all the more relevant to her.

Someone in another post said they were afraid moving her would be a set back because she's used to the feel good gym. And understand these people aren't push overs. They coach and they're good at it. But they are just warmer. The owner is Southern and his coaches mostly are as well or else they've lived in the South long enough to be affected by it. The shock of the move is exactly what she's worried about. She doesn't disagree that a move will need to be made. She just wants to try to figure out if it will matter if the move comes this year or next year. She's quite good with an eventual move though so don't think this is all me. I think she's just worried about too much too soon.

I will close by saying that her teacher told my sister after class tonight that she could tell she's getting stronger so I think there's a chance she may be invited back to Xcel Pre-team for the fall. If that's the case, my guess is she will leave her to train pre-team there. She is also considering adding a tumbling class if she stays in Advanced Kindergym. The fear everyone has is her getting bored with another full year of kinderbgym because she wants to flip as well as condition.

Some of you have been very helpful and sweet and some of you judgmental. I don't think I deserved the latter, but the world is full of many many types of people so I should have expected it I suppose. I just want to be clear that the village is raising the child but the parents are behind the ultimate decisions. But some people just have no desire to get on the internet and talk to strangers about something that's still pretty foreign to them. Why don't you think about that before you decide to criticize a poster here who's genuinely seeking help?

 

[GymAuntie]

You sound like you come from a high powered sports family. I get it. I came from one myself. I have three kids now in time consuming sports. We tried a little of everything, and they have settled into things they enjoy. But it sounds like there are way too many people way too invested in this kid's future in sports. Some might call it support, others call it pressure. Mom and Dad need to be the driving force here. If Mom likes the current gym and doesn't want to move, that's what should happen. If Dad doesn't want his little girl spending too much time doing just one sport, and wants her to have a more laid back childhood, that is his right. I have many people who simply would not comprehend my willingness to allow an 8 year old to do 16 hours a week of gymnastics. She is definitely the driving force behind this because I would rather have her in the sport the other two do. I think kids should have the opportunity to excel at something besides just school. But many people don't feel that way. They want their kid to go to school, and just be a kid. What that means, I don't really know because my kids would be bored silly. I digress. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging Mom to go to an evaluation at the JO gym if she is willing to do that. Not all JO gyms are cold, sterile, unfun ,unfriendly places for little kids. A good gym will figure out how to get the job done, with the kids having fun. Just because she had a negative experience at one doesn't mean she will at another. Maybe wait another year until she is 5. The earliest a child can compete Level 4 is 7 and let me tell you 7 year olds are very scarce at Level 4 meets. The 7-8 age group is always the smallest age group, and are often lumped in with the 9 year olds. She doesn't have to be "in training" at 4 to be a good gymnast ready to compete at age 8 or 9. If after that, Mom isn't comfortable, then that should be the end of it, and any pressure from you. Not every family is meant for high powered sports.

To clarify mom is on board with gymnastics and prefers that to be her sole activity. I think honestly part of her issue with a move is how highly I spoke of the current gym. I'm sure she sees me as wishy washy because I'm more of a Dharma than a Greg if that pop culture reference makes any sense. It's true that I tend to be the free spirit who floats on certain things so I wonder if she's worried that it's happening here. Thing is with the LO I'd never suggest anything lightly. She knows that, but she's also a more complacent personality. I think she's in the "if it's not broke don't fix it" school and says ""she's only 4" which is about to be replaced by "She's only 5."

And I think my urgency is because fundamentals are not something you can correct later. You can be an All Star in MLB and never pick up a bat until you're 16 years old. See Royals center fielder Lorenzo Cain for proof. That isn't possible in this sport. The way the media and some posters here (although not in this thread) makes it seem like if the parents make a wrong choice at 5 then the gymnast's future is doomed.

Here's the thing: Dad will never win with the whole laid back childhood thing. We all had activities so my sister says she will have one and she will do it to the best of her ability. It may be gymnastics or it may not, but she will do something. This is a kid who before the age of 5 will have traveled throughout Europe visiting castles and museums. She already has an appreciation for art and classical music. I don't think it's in her genetic makeup to be an ordinary kid. She asks to do choir and Bible Study. She spends her spare time drawing and playing on her pull up bar. She likes to be active and going to school will make it 10x moreso.

We don't know where she's headed, but we know it's our place to give her the tools to get there. If that's gym, then it appears the tools are gained through JO. If it's cheerleading, then she will go to a respectable competitive cheer team. If she wants to be an artist, then we'll find the best camps to foster that.

The only place I've interjected anything that I want other than for her to be happy is that I do want her to learn at least basic tennis because tennis is to women what golf is to men. Business deals are sealed between women on the courts, and female bonding time happens on the courts. She doesn't have to do any more than learn how to play, but that's the only thing I've told her mother I want for her. And that is mainly to benefit her future. Not looking for Serena Williams but want to see some knowledge just for her benefit. My parents have only insisted that she know how to swim because they have a pool so it's for her safety. She knows how pretty well now and she will have plenty of time to do it better. She won't be Janet Evans most likely (unless she decides she wants to try) but it's important to hold your own in water.

 

[bookworm]

To the OP: Sorry I didn't mean to offend you when I questioned whether or not this could be accomplished without your sister and her husband on board.... From the info in your posts, it seemed like gymnastics was an interest of yours but not necessarily the parents ...my bad... I was just coming from a position of being in this sport almost 20 years and knowing that without family cooperation, it's next to impossible to pursue...good luck with your quest for a good gym fit.

 

[B.Gold]

And I think my urgency is because fundamentals are not something you can correct later. You can be an All Star in MLB and never pick up a bat until you're 16 years old. See Royals center fielder Lorenzo Cain for proof. That isn't possible in this sport. The way the media and some posters here (although not in this thread) makes it seem like if the parents make a wrong choice at 5 then the gymnast's future is doomed.

I think this is where the disconnect is for me, this statement just isn't true. Locally there's a 12 yr old gymnast going L10 this year training elite at a nearby gym who didn't even walk into a gym for the first time until she was 9 years old. If your niece truly has the talent and drive for gymnastics you won't be able to stop her regardless of which gym you choose, right now she just needs to love it. That's the point I was trying to make. And I apologize if my posts made you feel judged. I can certainly understand the philosophy 'knowledge is power'

 

[GymAuntie]

To the OP: Sorry I didn't mean to offend you when I questioned whether or not this could be accomplished without your sister and her husband on board.... From the info in your posts, it seemed like gymnastics was an interest of yours but not necessarily the parents ...my bad... I was just coming from a position of being in this sport almost 20 years and knowing that without family cooperation, it's next to impossible to pursue...good luck with your quest for a good gym fit.

I appreciate your apology and can totally see where you would think that in looking at what I wrote. I was already so wordy that I left stuff out that in hindsight I see as important info.

Her mom and I aren't arguing about thid but if people here said xcel would hurt her in any way then we'd have a serious discussion. We've talked about it and she gets the differences. I also get her apprehension to move her. These are fantastic people who've brought out great things in her in 9 months. It's hard to leave that for something you don't know. It's downright scary in fact.

After reading posts in this thread it seems like my original assumption that it's now or never is not the case. That makes me feel much better. I guess I was just worried that waiting would hurt her more than the move. This is a sport where the top gymnasts peak at 16 and retire at 18 (save for college gymnasts) and in that time they're expected to get through essentially 11 levels to be at the top. And I guess my perception was 11 levels in 11 years is a lot so let's get on it. But it sounds like it's not as crucial as I thought.

LO would go to flippy class every day if she could. She really enjoys it. So I think her passion is there as much as any one could expect at her age. No she has no clue of what it will take but when she watched Rachel Gowry (sp?) On bars the other night, her eyes got bigger with every giant. She was more excited than when she saw Doc McStuffins live at Disney Junior. She said "I want to do that when I get big!" And right now that's really all we have to go by.

So I hope people now know that there's no family feud and nobody is pushing the kid. But it's hard not to want something for her that she seems so excited about. If she wants to swing through the bars then I want her to be able to take it as far as she can. Her mother wants the same. I think we just need to figure out what that is.

 

[GymAuntie]

I think this is where the disconnect is for me, this statement just isn't true. Locally there's a 12 yr old gymnast going L10 this year training elite at a nearby gym who didn't even walk into a gym for the first time until she was 9 years old. If your niece truly has the talent and drive for gymnastics you won't be able to stop her regardless of which gym you choose, right now she just needs to love it. That's the point I was trying to make. And I apologize if my posts made you feel judged. I can certainly understand the philosophy 'knowledge is power'

Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate what you said in this post because it helps ease the angst I was having.

If you read my previous message you will see where the angst was coming from so hopefully you get it a bit. Couple that with "cold" gym telling me the preteam is 6 or 7 5 year olds and a 6 year old and it made me worry that this gym wants them young and she might miss her window. With only 2 JO programs in our midst, we can't afford that.

I think I also covered that LO is genuinely excited about it too But everyone at the gym said her attentiveness was better in the preteam class than the kindergarten. That's what made my mother and I fear boredom if she had to repeat. Boredom might make her want to quit as much as being pushed too hard. It's like the advanced kid who gives up on grades because he's not challenged enough.

Like I said I'm an over thinker and probably looking at worst case scenarios. I do worry that any misstep will negatively impact her for years to come. Probably reason enough for me to not have kids cause I'd be a wreck. Lol

 

[munchkin3]

Good for you Auntie!
We are ALL guilty of asking too many questions, too soon, without any previous knowledge, and getting excited about gymnastics!!!!
Every single one of us.......that's why CB is here!!!
LO is so lucky to have you and the rest of her family! Good luck to her, and dream big, or stay in rec.

 

[lhmom]

GymAuntie, have to say that I love your profile pic (East Tennessean here-GO VOLS!!). I am glad that you have found some answers here and hope that this helps your family make a decision. DD is still with the same gym that she started pre-team with but I understand concerns when you have limited options around you as we do in this area. Good luck and I hope that your niece continues to enjoy this "flippy" sport. It's taught my daughter a lot and has given her an outlet for her energy.

 

[gymmomtoo]

Given that the other gyms pre team starts in September, I'd take her there for an evaluation. If they say she's not ready for pre team yet then keep her where she's at. And I think moving when she's younger is easier than waiting until she's been at this gym for years and that's all she knows.

 

[profmom]

If you read my previous message you will see where the angst was coming from so hopefully you get it a bit. Couple that with "cold" gym telling me the preteam is 6 or 7 5 year olds and a 6 year old and it made me worry that this gym wants them young and she might miss her window. With only 2 JO programs in our midst, we can't afford that.

First, I think it's great that you and your brother are so involved in your niece's life. My mom's sister was a really important part of my life growing up, and for a while, my mom was pretty much parenting my cousins. It may be difficult for others to understand if they haven't lived it how some families' kin relationships function to collaborate fully in the process of child-rearing. I'm of the mind that, as long as everyone is collaborating, a child can't have too much love and investment.

Second, the bit quoted above is important. Those of us who've been around for a while know that starting on the JO track at age 5 or 6 is absolutely NOT necessary for future success in this sport, and we can all cite examples of great gymnasts who started later. However, we also know that some gyms are really rigid about age and simply will not put an older child on a JO team. One question you may want to ask of this gym, which does seem like the only feasible JO option, is whether they allow girls to transfer into JO at age 7 - 9 if they are promising, or if they really are one of those gyms that draws a line in the sand and very much prefers only to train early compulsories with their home growns.

And I agree with Gymmomtoo that moving before she's made a lot of friends and fallen in love with a couple of coaches there is easier . . .

 

[twinmomma]

And your niece doesn't have to move through 11 levels in 11 years. The first REQUIRED JO level is level 4. Most girls never compete 1 or 2, and many don't do 3.

 

[GymAuntie]

I get now that she's not required to do 11 levels. Heck she's not even required to do 1 obviously. But when I started this thread that's how it seemed. It also seemed like it had to be young to get a leg up. It doesn't seem so much like that now. It's a very overwhelming sport but having a resource like this helps.

 

[twinmomma]

My DD didn't start gym until age 7, competed a year of Xcel Bronze, then competed L3 as an 8 year old and will be a 9 1/2 year old L4 this year. Her training group has 13 year olds in it. Your niece has plenty of time.

Please remember, the number of kids who make it to compete at the college level is miniscule compared to the number of kids who compete in this sport. The likelihood of college gym is so small, that shouldn't be your focus. There are lessons to be learned in any sport that have nothing to do with future paychecks (and make no mistake, college scholarships are paychecks). Try to focus on the life lessons she will get whether she competes JO or Xcel or just goes to rec classes. That's what's important here.

 

[z2akids]

A couple of things that have struck me in this thread -

OP has mentioned fear of boredom a couple of times. Repeating a level doesn't mean being bored. In rec levels, the girls generally keep working skills as they are ready for them. They do not have the same expectations in terms of form that team is going to have. Your niece is more likely to work more fun skills in rec than in team (at least a lot of the time). Preteam and team are going to be boring much of the time. Conditioning, working perfect handstand shapes, learning progressions for weeks and months before actually trying a skill, etc.

I know my DD has friends who are in rec who can throw higher skills than she can. Now, they aren't nearly as pretty as my DD'S, but they work skills in a different order and spend more time d9k g fun skills than working perfection.

Lastly, from my count, your niece has been at 3 gyms already at 4 years old. Definitely leave where you are if it doesn't give you what you want for her. But, gym hopping can eventually lead to problems - your niece's may ultimately not be welcomed back if you continue to move her back and forth.