Coaches JUDGES/Coaches: L6 Beam deductions questions

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Jabba

Coach
I have several gymnasts trying to score out of current Level 6 this weekend. One is struggling with some mental stuff on beam. Just to reassure everyone, I would NOT move this girl up to Optional without the appropriate skills on EVERY event, however, step one of having the opportunity to even be an Optional next season is for her to score out (31 AA) of the Level 6 meet this weekend. I believe she has every capability to do this, but we have some mental blocks on beam. With that in mind, here are my questions...

1. Full turn on beam - What would be the deduction for only making a 3/4 turn (and pretty deliberately, not just falling short of the full)? Half? She could easily have this any day, but right now there's a mental block. Everyone else sees she can just put her foot on, but she doesn't believe she can yet.

2. L6 Beam dismount - This is another mental block for her. Great handstand on beam, great L5 dismount. Fear of putting it together. I have studied "the book" and know the deduction for falling on the first handstand. What is the deduction for just doing a L5 dismount (skipping the first handstand entirely)?

As for the other events, they should be no issue at all. Even with a 6.0 on beam, I believe she could pull off the mobility score. Clearly, this isn't the ideal situation, but given the skills she's struggling with (dance that I know she'll get soon and a dismount she'll never use again) and the fact that she'll have 7 months to work on whatever next level she is to compete after this, I do believe she should still have the opportunity to score out this weekend. I'm just trying to figured out what the best action plan with these two skills on beam should be, since they aren't there yet. I want to be prepared (and prepare her) for what to expect if she doesn't have them.

Thank you for any/all help!
 
1. Full turn on beam - What would be the deduction for only making a 3/4 turn (and pretty deliberately, not just falling short of the full)? Half? She could easily have this any day, but right now there's a mental block. Everyone else sees she can just put her foot on, but she doesn't believe she can yet.


Not able to help you with the judging but a coaching tip that may help with the above.
Have her try and finish her pivot on her foot with the free leg held in coupe/passe (not sure what position your rules require) for two seconds before placing the free leg on the beam and stepping forward. If she physically can't do this then she is scared for a good reason as she probably has no control over her pivot.
 
  1. How is she landing the 3/4...with her foot on the half side?
  2. More than a fall around here. It could be like .6 or .8.

Those are some extreme mental blocks to be pushing for optionals.

EDIT: The L6 dismount is just a pirouette. She will do this on bars...pirouetting is a major concept in gymnastics.
 
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Thanks Pineapple! I was doing something similar with her, actually. She can pivot around fine, just is afraid to go for the full like she would on floor.

JBS,
1. she lands the 3/4 with her foot beside her other foot, so the length of the beam is on either side of her. ...any idea how much off that'd be?

2. I know it's definitely more than a fall. I was thinking twice what you're suggesting, since it's completely ommitting the first part of the element.

"Those are some extreme mental blocks to be pushing for optionals." .... We are pushing for the OPPORTUNITY to WORK FOR optionals. No promise of being an Optional. She must have the skills to compete the next level. However, the way our seasons work, she has 7 months before her first meet next season, at least. That's an incredibly long time based on her rate of acquiring skills thus far and the way our very small, very focused team works. I understand the concern, but again I think she should have the chance to compete in this score out meet. And honestly, I dont view those as extreme mental blocks for her at least - she'll figure them out in a month or two (and we've only had about a month or two since Level 5 States). It's just the timing sucks for now - the meet is this weekend. Pirouetting on bars is no issue for her at all. She's a bar queen (state champion). I've tried to explain this, but she doesn't relate the two. Go figure. :)
 
Thanks Pineapple! I was doing something similar with her, actually. She can pivot around fine, just is afraid to go for the full like she would on floor.

JBS,
1. she lands the 3/4 with her foot beside her other foot, so the length of the beam is on either side of her. ...any idea how much off that'd be?

2. I know it's definitely more than a fall. I was thinking twice what you're suggesting, since it's completely ommitting the first part of the element.

"Those are some extreme mental blocks to be pushing for optionals." .... We are pushing for the OPPORTUNITY to WORK FOR optionals. No promise of being an Optional. She must have the skills to compete the next level. However, the way our seasons work, she has 7 months before her first meet next season, at least. That's an incredibly long time based on her rate of acquiring skills thus far and the way our very small, very focused team works. I understand the concern, but again I think she should have the chance to compete in this score out meet. And honestly, I dont view those as extreme mental blocks for her at least - she'll figure them out in a month or two (and we've only had about a month or two since Level 5 States). It's just the timing sucks for now - the meet is this weekend. Pirouetting on bars is no issue for her at all. She's a bar queen (state champion). I've tried to explain this, but she doesn't relate the two. Go figure. :)

I really don't know what they are going to do with the full turn...could be as little as .3.

The dismount...around here they will give partial credit for the L5 dismount...I think they take .8 around here...but they could interpret that differently around you.

You say she must have the skills to compete the next level...but she doesn't even have the skills for L6? Why not just score out at the beginning of next season when she has these issues corrected? Can't she still work for optionals and score out later?

EDIT: Have her work the full turn on a wider beam.
 
Wider beam is a good idea... we don't have one, but I could put mats or something around high beam.

This is a VERY unique situation when it comes to not having the skills...

1. We aren't talking about a back walkover, freehip or tuck.
2. She's right there on both skills and will have them soon.
3. Waiting to score out in the fall would mean entirely different coaching/workout group/learning all new compulsory routines/ and most importantly, a downward spiral of her attitude and motivation. There's a lot more to this situation, I don't need to go into detail.

Please understand this is an entirely unique situation. I'm not asking for advice on levels or moving her up. I was an optional myself and am not an inexperienced coach. I know the deal. I believe she can still score out with her issues on both these skills and I believe it is in her best interest to do so at this meet. My question was about the deductions. I wanted to have an idea scorewise what her beam would be so I could prepare her for a score we aren't used to seeing and would never see again.

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For both skills, I would try matting a high beam, and them peeling the layers away. Rapidly. Don't let her think too hard or long. Build up her confidence while leaving little space for negative thoughts to appear.
 
Worst case scenarios:
Full Turn: They call it a 1/2 turn and she receives the substitution deduction which is double the element. The full turn is worth .4 so that deduction would be .8. I find it highly unlikely they would actually do this if she is actually reaching a 3/4 turn. She will likely get an underturn deduction worth .2.

Dismount: Substitution would be double the element...worth .8, so a 1.6 deduction.

Overall I would say you can think of her as starting at a 7.6 if both skills are qualified as substitutions. So that leaves her 1.6 to lose in execution to stay at a 6.0 or above...so an 8.4 from a 10. Doesn't seem unreasonable. Good luck!
 
3. Waiting to score out in the fall would mean entirely different coaching/workout group/learning all new compulsory routines/ and most importantly, a downward spiral of her attitude and motivation. There's a lot more to this situation, I don't need to go into detail.

Please understand this is an entirely unique situation. I'm not asking for advice on levels or moving her up. I was an optional myself and am not an inexperienced coach. I know the deal. I believe she can still score out with her issues on both these skills and I believe it is in her best interest to do so at this meet. My question was about the deductions. I wanted to have an idea scorewise what her beam would be so I could prepare her for a score we aren't used to seeing and would never see again.

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I see...so your gym will place her in a different group if she does not score out now...different story.

I was an optional and am not an inexperienced coach.

She can easily score out without those skills.

I know your question. I'm still going to give my opinion...after all...this is a forum. This is not a unique situation...you have a 50/50 shot at this...50% succeed...50% fail. If I was the optional coach at your gym and you sent me this kid...I would not be happy.

You can build a wide beam for full turns out of two 2x6x8's and a bit of carpet...it'll cost you about $20.
 
I completely agree with CreateMagic, it's all about building confidence. For some kids it can come with just a few reps of seeing, "Oh, all these mats are here and I'm not even using them. I'm fine!" and for others it's a MUCH slower process! But it will be good for skill development in the long run to work them this way, and as a tool to help her build general confidence on beam which sounds like she needs (even if the struggle is just with dance skills at this point). It will pay off regardless of what level she competes next season.
I know how frustrating full turns can be for some kids. I had one girl who could do a beautiful bwo-bwo series on high beam by herself and still had a mental block with full turns. It took a little time, but I think we finally got it ironed out.
 
Thank you, gympanda! This is exactly what I wanted to know!!! :)

Coachmolly, this is exactly like her! She just needs the confidence.

Jbs, sorry to get a little defensive. Its a really unique gym and unique situation. I don't want to detail but I'll say it is definitely not the typical team scenario of most gyms. That has positives and negaitves to it. The hand we are dealt. Ill be the optional coach so I'm ok with it. In a month it won't even be an issue. Just thinking of the best plan to deal right now and how to prep her for a lower than norm score.

Thanks again everyone!
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Jbs, sorry to get a little defensive. Its a really unique gym and unique situation. I don't want to detail but I'll say it is definitely not the typical team scenario of most gyms. That has positives and negaitves to it. The hand we are dealt. Ill be the optional coach so I'm ok with it. In a month it won't even be an issue. Just thinking of the best plan to deal right now and how to prep her for a lower than norm score.

Not to worry...I've been in your shoes quite a bit......doing something that someone else didn't agree with. In every case I have at least learned something to take forward into the future. A coach that has a plan and is confident with it...is a good coach.
 
2 lessons I learned =

1. Everything can change in a day.
2. Never underestimate a gymnast. :)

What a difference a day makes! Last night, she had a whole new attitude toward the full turn (it got pretty frustrating the practice before, which is why I started trying to figure out our gameplan if we didnt have it in time for the meet). We spent the entire beam rotation working on it (which clearly we cant do every day, but was worth it for this time), peeling away layers of mats. Right now, she's only got two left under the high beam. But her attitude and approach toward it was ENTIRELY different - very determined - which makes me believe we'll have this in time for the meet. Worse case scenario, she under-rotates it a little and gets the .2 off. As for the dismount, I think if we have the turn, she'll be able to pass through the first handstand quickly to the second (not ideal, but it'll work for us for this meet). Honestly, I think if she has the full turn, she'll have the confidence to "throw" the dismount. Confidence is everything for her on beam. Thanks everyone for your help. It's great to know what everything is worth, just in case. I always want to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Looks like we are on a better track now, thankfully.
 
Another update: she's got both skills now, in the routine, no problem. Stuck 5 out of 5 beam routines last practice. Meet is Sunday. .....so my panicking was for no reason (thankfully). :)

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