Anon Judges Thoughts on Kids Competing Levels They Aren’t Ready For

[Anonymous (cb5e)]

We have a gym in our area that is garnering a reputation for allowing kids to compete levels/apparatuses/skills that they are not ready to compete. For example, during warm ups at state, and at a few other meets, I watched one of their level 8 gymnasts struggle to do a kip cast to handstand. Some attempts she could barely get the cast over horizontal. She didn’t make a bar routine and then the coach still allowed her to compete. She wasn’t close to making it and watching her score pop up, I felt really bad for her and wondered if that was embarrassing for her. It’s a common theme among many gymnasts in this gym.

My question is what do judges think about this when a gym consistently bumps girls up levels that they aren’t ready for?

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

There are reasons why a gymnast might not look up to standard for the level that I personally feel are acceptable. I wouldn't even really pay much attention to an individual from a team that was competing below the requirements. If it is a whole team with gymnastics that generally looks unsafe then it is really uncomfortable to watch

Ideally everyone is competitive at a level they can do to a proficient standard - but athletes doing below the norm/standard are fine - so long as they are doing safe gymnastics.

I am also baffled by gyms that bump extremely young athletes up without the skills - don't rush, let them succeed. I generally feel sorry for the kids. Kids who are never given the opportunity to succeed i.e.: hit routines - not necessarily win medals at their level are usually poor competitors year after year. Generally they just have lower confidence in competition - You will never compete well if you don't believe you can.

 

[Anonymous (d44c)]

There is always going to be a "bell curve" so to speak...and also many reasons someone may not look "up to skill level" at an event at a particular meet. For instance, my daughter has all the skills, but has anxiety and mental blocks. Some meets she is on top of the podium, some she is dead last and skips skills due to mental state at the time. I wouldn't worry about other teams process and other girls skills, they all have their reasons. There are gyms that hold girls back for scores, gyms that don't stress on scores and push teams ahead as a group for comraderie and challenges, and there are good and bad aspects of both.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Im not sure how it works in the US, but in Australia, if a judge seems a gymnast warm up a skill which they are clearly not ready for, and which looks like ti will be dangerous to compete. The judge has the right to tell the coach that the gymnast is not permitted to do the skill.

I have seen this happen on a few occasions. The gymnast then needs to leave out the skill, or make adjustments.

It’s not necessarily a criticism of the coaches. There can be a number of reason why a skill may be unsafe on the day, even if it has been safe in training. Such as mental blocks, competition nerves, a sudden growth spurt or onset of physical change, illness, fatigue, other stresses causing a distraction etc.

 

[Anonymous (10ea)]

Is it just typically one event that they struggle on or do they not have the skills for all events at that level? DD's previous gym was not great at coaching one event so it was not surprising to see girls with very low scores or scratching that event. But they would do usually do well in the others.

 

[Anonymous (cb5e)]

I

Is it just typically one event that they struggle on or do they not have the skills for all events at that level? DD's previous gym was not great at coaching one event so it was not surprising to see girls with very low scores or scratching that event. But they would do usually do well in the others.

It was also vault and beam. And it was not just this one meet. This was the third meet that we were at competing with them so it wasn’t just a one off. And it wasn’t just one gymnast. They had multiple gymnasts either leave out required skills or attempt routines they clearly weren’t ready for. What’s the point of attending a level 8 meet only to compete level 7 routines or to attempt routines you can’t make? When it happens at multiple meets, it’s not a one off or a fluke thing. Do judges view this poorly?

 

[Anonymous (10ea)]

I'm not a judge but I would assume that they are just as confused as we are as to why a gym would move up gymnasts who are missing skills for several events. Seems to me that it would be terrible for a gymnast's confidence and love of competing to always get low scores. If it was just one event, I could understand.

 

[Anonymous (5de2)]

I

It was also vault and beam. And it was not just this one meet. This was the third meet that we were at competing with them so it wasn’t just a one off. And it wasn’t just one gymnast. They had multiple gymnasts either leave out required skills or attempt routines they clearly weren’t ready for. What’s the point of attending a level 8 meet only to compete level 7 routines or to attempt routines you can’t make? When it happens at multiple meets, it’s not a one off or a fluke thing. Do judges view this poorly?

I know of a girl who told her coach that she wanted to compete Level 8 and just use her level 7 routines (she would "work on" trying to add an extra salto on floor and an extra skill on bars and beam). This girl would balk on at least 1 handspring vault every meet ... and at least 2-3 each practice - but when she got over in competition, it was a minimum of 9.0 every time.
We don't allow gymnasts to compete skills that are unsafe, but we do allow them to compete a level if they have 75% of the skills for the level by the end of August. Since meet season doesn't start until November, they still have plenty of time to get the rest of the skills.
We also don't allow someone to move up a level if they plan to compete the previous level's routines. The gymnast mentioned above quit because she wasn't going to be able to move up unless she upgraded her skills. Of course, her younger sister quit too because she was going to have to repeat her level too since she didn't meet the minimum move up score. She wasn't unsafe, just "sloppy" in meets.

 

[Anonymous (40ed)]

There are reasons why a gymnast might not look up to standard for the level that I personally feel are acceptable. I wouldn't even really pay much attention to an individual from a team that was competing below the requirements. If it is a whole team with gymnastics that generally looks unsafe then it is really uncomfortable to watch

Ideally everyone is competitive at a level they can do to a proficient standard - but athletes doing below the norm/standard are fine - so long as they are doing safe gymnastics.

I am also baffled by gyms that bump extremely young athletes up without the skills - don't rush, let them succeed. I generally feel sorry for the kids. Kids who are never given the opportunity to succeed i.e.: hit routines - not necessarily win medals at their level are usually poor competitors year after year. Generally they just have lower confidence in competition - You will never compete well if you don't believe you can.

Usually it’s cause they are trying to push them toward elite track. The parents are in their ear constantly whispering “don’t worry you are 2 years younger than anyone that beat you”. While posting on instagram a new skill they threw during their 30th hour at the gym that week in between home schooling.

 

[Anonymous (c3a7)]

So many gymnasts set the goal of NCAA D1 and as such feel the need to be a multi-year level 10, so set an ultimatum of either I make it to level 10 by age 16 or quit.

At lower levels I feel the parents are in the mindset that it is move up a level every year or quit. Even ones that might be set back by injury or growth if they don't move up a level they quit.

 

[Anonymous (40ed)]

So many gymnasts set the goal of NCAA D1 and as such feel the need to be a multi-year level 10, so set an ultimatum of either I make it to level 10 by age 16 or quit.

At lower levels I feel the parents are in the mindset that it is move up a level every year or quit. Even ones that might be set back by injury or growth if they don't move up a level they quit.

It is the highest injury risk female sport coupled with being the most expensive one. So I can sympathize with parents not wanting to "spin their wheels" too long repeating levels. Especially when many can take the level of strength, flexibility and conditioning they've acquired in gymnastics, into other sports and succeed very quickly. My daughter is more fit and athletic and can beat almost any boy in any sport in her elementary school. Other non-gymnast girls aren't even in the same league as her in terms of strength and conditioning. I try to keep her recreationally interested in sports that involve eye hand coordination like baseball, golf, volleyball ect on weekends, so that a transition is natural if she chooses that route vs. track and field or diving.

 

[Anonymous (85d8)]

I see level 4’s from other gyms who don’t have their kips and scratch on bars. I’m curious why they were even moved up from level 3 without the skills necessary to do well in 4. We have kids with kips at our gym being told to repeat level 3 because it’s not a perfect straight arm kip. Different standards it seems. I feel like the parents add a lot of pressure and possibly that’s why they get moved up before they are truly ready. Not sure

 

[Anonymous (5de2)]

I see level 4’s from other gyms who don’t have their kips and scratch on bars. I’m curious why they were even moved up from level 3 without the skills necessary to do well in 4. We have kids with kips at our gym being told to repeat level 3 because it’s not a perfect straight arm kip. Different standards it seems. I feel like the parents add a lot of pressure and possibly that’s why they get moved up before they are truly ready. Not sure

Depending on the gym, move-ups might be done early ... and based on how the gymnasts did in level 3.
Some gyms know the gymnast may not have ALL of the skills for a level, but at the same time, there are gyms making girls repeat level 3 even though they were getting 37+ the previous season.
Another reason to possibly move a gymnast up to Level 4 from Level 3 without a kip is that the gym policy is similar to the Elite general attitude ... you want the gymnast to have room for improvement over the course of the season so they peak at the right time.
According to page 77 of the USAG R&P:
1. Before moving up a level, every athlete should show proficiency at her current level.
2. Once a high level of proficiency is achieved at the athlete’s current level, she should strive to move up to
the next level, if it is done safely.
They define proficiency as having 75% of the skills. A high level of proficiency could be demonstrated by high scores. Not having a kip isn't unsafe; just annoying.

 

[Chocolate_Chip]

Depending on the gym, move-ups might be done early ... and based on how the gymnasts did in level 3.
Some gyms know the gymnast may not have ALL of the skills for a level, but at the same time, there are gyms making girls repeat level 3 even though they were getting 37+ the previous season.
Another reason to possibly move a gymnast up to Level 4 from Level 3 without a kip is that the gym policy is similar to the Elite general attitude ... you want the gymnast to have room for improvement over the course of the season so they peak at the right time.
According to page 77 of the USAG R&P:
1. Before moving up a level, every athlete should show proficiency at her current level.
2. Once a high level of proficiency is achieved at the athlete’s current level, she should strive to move up to
the next level, if it is done safely.
They define proficiency as having 75% of the skills. A high level of proficiency could be demonstrated by high scores. Not having a kip isn't unsafe; just annoying.

Not having a kip is definitely annoying! My DD didn't have her kip going into level 4 last year, is repeating level 4 this year, and still doesn't have a consistent straight-arm kip. I She can easily do a level 7 beam or floor routine and does well on vault. I wouldn't want her to be held back because of one skill in her worst event as long as safety wasn't an issue.

Her gym brought in a new coach this year, and they decided to have her repeat level 4 rather than have her compete level 5 or 6. Prior to the coaching change She needed to clean up her form/shaping and probably would have gotten hammered on scoring at level 5 or 6. While she was a little sad to be repeating level 4, seeing the huge improvements she has made this season has been such a major boost to her confidence. Her bars score has made over a full point of improvement this year. If she had to repeat level 3 instead of level 4 it wouldn't have helped nearly as much with getting her kip consistent in competition.

Ultimately I think it just depends on the situation of the individual gymnast, while also keeping in mind where the gym is at with staffing resources. My DD goes to a small gym and was definitely in that gray area of trying to figure out if they even had enough girls to put together a level 5 team, which they didn't. Anyone who wasn't clearly ready for level 6 would have to repeat level 4 or compete Xcel Gold. With the new rules, I'm hoping DD can get two 36's and not have to worry about mobility meets in the spring.

 

[Anonymous (101b)]

Speaking to a couple of different aspects of this thread. I'm the parent of a level eight that moved up before the skills were in place for bars... not likely the same as OP though, lol. It was all her idea and her coach allowed it so I thought it would be in place. It was a devastating year for her ego, but she's grown from it. I didn't realize she didn't have everything until the first competition as I don't watch practice and don't know what to look for most of the time. I kept getting told she had it (from her) and truth be told, in talking with her coach, we both agreed that she was often the kid that could pull it through in competition even when it wasn't always there in practice, so I get why the coach let my daughter try. However, a lot of other competitors scratched the bars because they didn't have it ready, and I was proud of her for having the guts to compete it even when she knew it was going to be bad. Her reasons for shooting up to the level before being ready was that she wanted to be in position to be recruited, but had started late, and she didn't want to wait to compete the skills she had ready in every other event. After last season she did some soul searching and realized she won't get recruited at least at this point. I'm still supportive of her that if she wants to, she can try for recruitment for her masters degree also. She's also torn between gymnastics and track and field at this point. However, I'm not going to deny that I'm relieved that she'll at least start the year in the same level, now with all the skills. There are so many different factors that go into the decisions on level advancement and the performances in competition can be greatly affected by things like, EDs, family situations, health issues, confidence issues, and much more (my own kids was exhibiting REDs symptoms due to under-fueling herself). I'm sure there were plenty of parents thinking we were crazy for letting our daughter do that level, and I know that for her it was just the one event which is a bit different. If there is a true safety risk, then the coaches will notice and are able to report to the governing bodies for the region especially if it is an entire team which is looking unsafe, as our coach has done this when she was scared watching a particular team where all of their beam routines were scary. I'm not a coach or a judge so of course I don't know when a skill is truly scary, or if it is just unpolished or lacks confidence. Just my two cents!