WAG Kim Zmeskal-Burdette gets called out ( #gymnastalliance )

[gymjunkie]

never anyone did the 200, 400m or 800m or trained for those? the bush is your friend they say in track... healthy? well, competitive sports are usually not that healthy. this is not fitness. nevertheless routinely having young kids (!) throwing up all over the place as the multiple trash cans indicate seems definitly not okay to me. to me it sounds like texas dreams just went overboard with everything they did. no wonder their gymnasts tend to be burned out reaching senior age.

I do remember feeling like I wanted to puke after doing some of these in high school PE, but gymnastics training is different. Just the fact that practice is indoors makes a huge difference. When you train outside, the temperature can rise as you train and the angle of the sun can become more intense. Those elements are under control in a gym, so it should be extremely rare that a gymnast trains to the point of vomiting.

 

[kecks]

the reason for vomiting after speed endurance events is the build up of lactate acid that is produced during the anaerobic energy production. being outside or inside does not matter that much - you need the can after indoor track events and workouts sometimes as well. since floor exercise is 90 seconds of intense effort i can see why gymnasts might need speed/acceleration endurance training and at least the competing gymnasts (would be considered recreational i guess) at our track club do participate in general prepardness workouts in the offseason with wrestlers, weightlifters, boxers and track people. it's fun but the can might be needed. the athletes are not younger than 14 so and this is certainly not done every other day. obviously texas dreams broke athletes more than a few times...

 

[bogwoppit]

I have definitely puked after hill training for marathons. But I would not expect that to be a part of a child's sport.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I have to say that I have never heard of gymnasts being trained so hard that they throw up as being a positive thing. That's definitely not happening at my daughter's gym. Now, I have a 16 year old son that competes the 800m in track and, yes, he pretty much pukes at every meet.

 

[JBS]

never anyone did the 200, 400m or 800m or trained for those?

I ran track and yes... some of those events. Definitely ran with some people that vomited during training.

I wouldn’t say it’s a regular thing... it happened to certain athletes and certain events more... it happened in football too... not real often though.

I’ve definitely seen it in gymnastics during cardio... but again... not often.

 

[kecks]

depending on the programming used - more or less often, yes. in track never more than once a week and this is for athletes specializing in sprinting and decatletes (not jumpers or throwers and long distance folks). there is definitly too much of a good thing. recorvery gets in the way and without adqeuate recovery there is no overcompensation and so there is no positive effect from training.

 

[3rd_time_around]

...trashcans to throw up in are not abuse or a sign thereof. throwing up is comon place if you train speed or explosive endurance which a gymnast needs. think floor exercise. there is no known way to my knowledge to train this without going to a place that hurts. vomiting is for most athletes part of this experience. usually trowing up helps and makes the pain go away faster. keep in mind this shoud be done only with athletes of a higher training age (few years of competitve training at least), a good aerobic base to help them regenerate fast after and also not with kids since they are too young to understand what is happening and what such "good pain" differentiates from "bad pain" f.e. overuse or injury related pains. also this should not be done too often. in track we limit it to once a week.

I understand what you’re saying, it just sounds really out there. But I know many cross country athletes throw up daily while training and even at competitions, so I know what you mean. They have those trash cans too.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Agree to disagree. USAG is still guided by the same broken priorities. Win at all costs. The athletes are disposable.

They’ve fixed nothing. They’ve allowed no independent investigation.

I just spent the whole weekend with USAG and learned how they are working to change, grow, future plans, etc. Unless you are at that level of experience with the organization, you don't know. I’m not saying they’re perfect or blameless, I’m saying they are working hard to change things and fix what’s broken. If people aren’t allowed to repent and change, where are we? But that’s not what this thread is about, so let’s not debate USAG here.

 

[gymjunkie]

I just spent the whole weekend with USAG and learned how they are working to change, grow, future plans, etc. Unless you are at that level of experience with the organization, you don't know. I’m not saying they’re perfect or blameless, I’m saying they are working hard to change things and fix what’s broken. If people aren’t allowed to repent and change, where are we? But that’s not what this thread is about, so let’s not debate USAG here.

Can you start a separate thread on the changes USAG is making?

 

[doublestrike]

Vomiting is not a regular part of gymnastics. My gymnast is multi-year level 10, trained with elites and members of the national team and none of them vomited as part of practice.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

Yeah, I have heard of this happening occasionally/rarely in sports, but it should not be a normal part of gymnastics practice.

 

[QuietColours]

Kennedy Baker has written a statement about the abuse she dealt with at Texas Dreams as well:

 

[wandrewsjr]

depending on the programming used - more or less often, yes. in track never more than once a week and this is for athletes specializing in sprinting and decatletes (not jumpers or throwers and long distance folks). there is definitly too much of a good thing. recorvery gets in the way and without adqeuate recovery there is no overcompensation and so there is no positive effect from training.

OK this makes more sense. I would say Gymnastics is much more like the jumping events than sprinting events in terms of endurance required. Vault is very similar to triple jump/long jump/pole vault, short bursts of speed followed by technical execution. FX is 90 seconds, but it’s more like 3 or 4 highmjumps with a dance performance in between each than running a 400m or 800m.

I have seen the occasional gymnast get sick after endurance training(like could count on my fingers over many years numbers). But as many others have said it is very far from the norm.

 

[lostinfog]

With the latest allegations from Kennedy would KZB and Chris potentially be investigated by SS? This to me seems the same level of emotional abuse and forced training on injuries like Maggie Haney who is serving her suspension. Maggie was more obvious about her ways in competition where Kim comes across as super sweet and great with her athletes and her public persona.

Regarding the vomiting I have been in 2 gyms in “big” gymnastics states that have had multi year L10 athletes on scholarships to D1’s and never seen this. Currently we are in an environment with multi year 10’s, D1 scholarships, Hopes and Elites on NT and I’ve not seen training or conditioning that induced regular vomiting so it is not the norm to me.

 

[flippin out]

With the latest allegations from Kennedy would KZB and Chris potentially be investigated by SS? This to me seems the same level of emotional abuse and forced training on injuries like Maggie Haney who is serving her suspension. Maggie was more obvious about her ways in competition where Kim comes across as super sweet and great with her athletes and her public persona.

Here’s the thing, calling coaches out on social media is all well and good....but if they want them to be investigated someone would need to file an official complaint with USAG safesport. SS can not investigate just bc someone posted about horrible experiences on twitter, they need to file complaint

 

[Eleven sol]

So I was a high level runner at a competitive high school in Illinois. Went to the state finals for the mile, offered a division 1 scholarship for college. Ran the 800 and 3200 as well, did interval training regularly. And no routine barfing for myself or my teammates. With a good coach who knows their athletes, that should be occurring rarely. Frankly I didn’t even think my coaches were that great, lots of injuries, didn’t know how to accommodate for injuries, but trash cans for barfing, never happened.

 

[LemonLime]

To the extent anyone is implying Texas Dreams had trash cans in the gym to account for athletes vomiting during the time period Kenn and Ashton are discussing, that rumor is false.

 

[Gymsanity]

' I read long ago about the trash cans around the gym for girls to throw up in due to the conditioning.'
Yes, but that was a VERY long time ago. I would like to think that is no longer the case. They would condition in the back corner of the gym, it was hot and intense and sometimes that would happen. Out of half a dozen things that I didn't like that helped me make up my mind to open my own gym, that was one of them. I felt bad for the girls and found it disturbing.

 

[QuietColours]

As an update on Texas Dreams, USAG itself took the commentary to file a Safe Sport report:

 

[Gymnaddict17]

News to me. Anyone else ever heard of this in gymnastics?

It may happen and I'm sure but it does but it absolutely should not be common in the gym.