layout versus whipback?

[Bella's Mom]

Bella was doing ROBLO on the tumble trak earlier this week and one of the L9s mentioned that her layouts looked more like whipbacks.

What is the difference? And what does she need to do to make it a layout instead?

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

A whipback is more like a bhs without touching your hands. for a layout would be to set up high then flip. The shape I believe is different as well, in the layout the body is more straight/hollow vs being shapped similiar to a bhs.

hopefully someone will correct me if I am mistaken here!

 

[gymnast695]

In a layout you set and rise up before you flip, and a whip back you just throw your head back and flip. A whipback is more like a bhs with no hands, where a layout you go up and then pull your arms down to rotate yourself. Try to have her spot something in front of her that she has to see before she flips, that will keep her from whipping back.

 

[All Chalked Up]

Whipback- Pretty much a back handspring without hands.

Layout- Pretty much a back tuck but more staright/hollow.

 

[NOG]

I haven't been on here much in a very long time....I thought your dd was/had competed level 3 - I'm really behind

 

[Bella's Mom]

She's competing L4 this year. She loves tumbling on the tumble trax and does it most of the time during day camp/open gym type environments. She was working on her ROBT on tumble trax and somehow got all into doing a layout. i think it was because one of her friends at day camp is a prep op and does layouts. Bella was trying to imitate her but I guess she doesn't get the height to do a true layout.

This is just her playing around and most definitely is not something she is even close to competing. She just got her ROBHS on the floor this summer so she's a long ways away from adding onto it.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

The difference is height, and I would strongly discourage her from working roundoff layout or roundoff whip at this point. Either way, the muscle memory she's training by doing that will come back to bite her when she's learning RO-BHS-Back tuck/layout.

 

[Bella's Mom]

I'll mention it to the gym staff. I'm not there during these times. I saw and heard this one afternoon when I was picking her up after work.

I don't think this is something they work on during formal class periods and her summer is over at this point. Her regular coach will be busy training routines from here on out.

 

[AmandaLynn]

The difference is height, and I would strongly discourage her from working roundoff layout or roundoff whip at this point. Either way, the muscle memory she's training by doing that will come back to bite her when she's learning RO-BHS-Back tuck/layout.

Agreed. She needs to learn RO-BHS, Ro-BHS-BHS, Ro-BHS-Tuck, and Ro-BHS-Layout before even thinking about learning ro-tuck, ro-layout, or ro-whip. It's likely going to cause problems later on if she skips over the fundamental passes.

 

[aerialriver]

That is interesting. I was taught that a whip had nothing to do with the head whipping back but rather the arms coming up from a set position to kind of a V shape at the sides making the "whipping" motion and the body is in more of a hollow shape. They also tend to be lower than a layout. A layout has a straight body where you set upwards and then bring the arms close to your side. So basically both take skill and form. I have seen what you describe it is generally an archy head thrown back arms anywhere sloppy no handed BHS not a whip or a layout. Hope that helps to clarify.

 

[MdGymMom01]

The difference is height, and I would strongly discourage her from working roundoff layout or roundoff whip at this point. Either way, the muscle memory she's training by doing that will come back to bite her when she's learning RO-BHS-Back tuck/layout.

This is also why backyard tumbling and "playing around" on the backyard trampoline is so dangerous. Not only because of injuries, but the bad form and bad habits that the kids pick up. I made the mistake of letting my dd "play around" too much on the tramp and it totally screwed up her BHS. She developed a nasty hesitation problem and an arm swing ritual that carried over through about 3 years of balking and just being scared. I know how little kids love to play and immitate the older kids but trying to unlearn and correct bad form is definitely no fun for coaches. And very frustrating for gymnasts and parents.

 

[tumble-ready]

The shape of a whip is really dependent on the floor surface. The more spring in the surface, the straighter the body position. Power tumblers basically use a layout position with the feet in front which causes the long direction and will also give a slight upper body arch at the beginning and then straight over the top. A layout should always be straight (with the exception of double-layouts-arched or straight) and the feet start behind to give the upward direction in the rebound. I also agree that she should not be working on them without supervision and when she is ready. Coaches vary on when that should be.

 

[GetaGrip]

A whip tends to be faster and much closer to the ground. If a whip is done correctly, you should almost be able to touch your hands to the ground. In essence, it's a high and fast back handspring. Whip backs can be arched to get around fast, but if the floor is bouncy it is usually not needed.

A layout is supposed to be much higher and much more "floaty". They are much more similar to a back tuck than a whip back. Layouts always need to have a nice hollow shape when coming around.

Funny enough, doing a bad layout can result in a whip, while doing a back whip can result in a layout. Really, all it depends on is how you set.
You start the set with your feet more in front of you in a whip. This helps you go lower, but really you get the speed and shape from the "whip" part. You pretty much throw your head back and then snap into a hollow very fast, which helps you gain speed.
With a layout you set straight up and down or with your feet a little behind you. This will send your energy going up instead of out like a whip. Also, you hesitate on the set. Unlike whips where you immediately throw your head back, you set up with your arms much slower and controlled, staying hollow the whole time.

Good luck, and like all skills, it just takes practice!

 

[CoachGoofy]

Gaaah! DON'T THROW YOUR HEAD IN A WHIP IT DOES HORRIBLE THINGS TO YOUR SHAPE!!!

(sorry. Spent the last 2 weeks unteaching some junky looking whips and making them the kind you can use for high level power tumbling. It was awful).

A whip is long, low, and fast. You snap those feet around and under you like woah. It should be as long as the tumbler, or longer. Longer is nice. You can rebound out of a proper whip; sticking it SHOULD be impossible (or, as I tell my kids, "was stopping hard? Yeah? GOOD! You have the idea!).

A layout is high, floats, gives that whole hanging in the air impression, does not travel far, and it's possible to stick.

That's the difference in what they look like, there's a few technical differences, like where you reach when you initiate the skill-back for whips, up for layouts-and where your feet are at the beginning and such. But those are the cause of the stuff that's easy to see.

 

[Bella's Mom]

I also agree that she should not be working on them without supervision and when she is ready. Coaches vary on when that should be.

Who said she was unsupervised???? She was at camp that the gym holds. Her camp counselors are the older L8/L9 gymnasts who are also starting to do some coaching. While she was on the trak, our HC, plus two other team coaches were less than ten feet away. They were aware of what she was doing.

As for being ready or not, that's her coach's call and I'll leave that ball in her court.

To those who explained the difference between the two skills, thank you.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

As for being ready or not, that's her coach's call and I'll leave that ball in her court.

Good call on this.

 

[tumble-ready]

She loves tumbling on the tumble trax and does it most of the time during day camp/open gym type environments. She was working on her ROBT on tumble trax and somehow got all into doing a layout. i think it was because one of her friends at day camp is a prep op and does layouts. Bella was trying to imitate her but I guess she doesn't get the height to do a true layout.

This is just her playing around and most definitely is not something she is even close to competing. She just got her ROBHS on the floor this summer so she's a long ways away from adding onto it.

I mentioned the unsupervision because of your statement about the open gyms and day camps and just playing around copying another girl. I was in no way judging your gym or coach. My apologies if I offended you.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

time and practice.

 

[Liv...]

From what I gathered she was just mucking around. but really she should definitely work ROBHS- either tuck or layout, not just RO - tuck/layout. But she's having fun as long as she doesn't stuff around too much and teach herself bad habits she should be fine. A layout is a higher and straighter element (not straight but no where near the shape of a whip) Whips are generally a faster skill too.