Women Level 10 C dismount on beam

[Muddlethru]

We've had 3 girls in the past year tear their ACL and menicus in landing their twisting skills. This does not seem uncommon either as we've heard many sustain these injuries doing similar twisting skills. My daughter has decided she is removing her tumbling pass with a twisting skill. So she thinks she can do a double pike and double back and her front layout, front layout. But she is stuck on her beam dismount. Her current dismount is a cartwheel full and a half. Her Beam coach does not have enough experience to train or know any skills but she is learning and a hard worker. As such, she has been unable to help my daughter with a roundoff dismount. I don't know what the problem is with her roundoff but I know a cartwheel may not give her enough power for a doubleback off beam. She has approached her beam coach but as I indicated her lack of experience has produced no solutions. Any C beam dismount suggestions?

 

[Empowered]

Gainer pike off the end of beam. Daughter has a teammate who uses this and you see a few in college too.

 

[MeetDirector]

What @Empowered said. I think that is what my dd uses to not do the twisting.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

She could also do a d+b.

 

[Natasha]

Interesting timing, my dd came home last night and said she just started training the gainer off the end of the beam for L10 next year because she does a RO full right now and does not like it.

 

[vagymmomma]

Is there a deduction if the dismount (at L9 and L10) is not out of a roundoff? I thought I read on another thread that there was a .1 deduction without roundoff. Gainer pike sounds like an interesting option, but assume it would be from a run??

 

[Empowered]

I think the .1 deduction would be if your current round off is your only forward/side skill.

 

[vagymmomma]

I think the .1 deduction would be if your current round off is your only forward/side skill.

I thought it was separate from the forward/sideways requirement, but could be mistaken.

 

[flippin out]

I believe the judges prefer to see a dismount with connected flight --RO or bhs into the twisting it double back. But I'm not sure if it's a specific deduction (composition or not up to level...etc) or if judges just look more favorable on connected dismounts.

 

[gymgal]

ugh... hate those gainer dismounts. The girls always look like they are going hit their head on the edge of the beam. Love, if she is already doing a 1.5 successfully, why switch it? I could understand if she were trying to upgrade but if she is doing well with it, she shouldn't have a too much of an issue. And while I get her/your desire to reduce tear possibilities, all those double backs/pikes have their own common injury risks as well. hopefully some coaches will weigh in soon

 

[Muddlethru]

I've been told to avoid gainer dismounts particularly off the front of the beam. Not sure why. My daughter was training a gainer off the side but a judge told me there is a .1 deduction for that dismount because it is not connected to a flight skill (just as flippin out and vagymmomma stated above). Also I agree with gymgal, I don't particularly like the gainer dismounts, just looks incomplete.

 

[fuzi]

There is a compositional dismount if the dismount is the minimum value required for the level (C in level 10, B in level 9, A in level 8) and not connected to something else. 0.05 in distribution.

Coaches have to weigh this small deduction against gymnast safety and potential losses in execution.

Does she have a good back handspring? She could back handspring double back.

 

[gymdog]

No to cartwheel double back. Not going to happen. Single BHS double back also not going to happen especially if she can't do a roundoff punch. Would need to be a series. But if she was able to do this, I don't really think a 1.5 dismount off beam would be a problem. Anything to double back on beam is not really something you need or want to trained with an inexperienced. The 1.5 is safer.

3 tears like that in one season in one gym is odd. Although it does happen on twisting skills, I would not say it is common or expected. At any level 10 meet pretty much every athlete is going to twist on some event.

 

[flippin out]

Hmm...you keep indicating a lack of knowledge and experience on coaches part. That concerns me. Maybe you should look at whether this gym/coach is a good fit for your dd. the fact that coach cannot help her with a RO dismount is very concerning. Is lack of coaching a possible reason for all the injuries? Is there a more experienced coach that she could be training with?

If there are no other training options and you do not want to switch gyms.....and that coach cannot help her learn a RO, your dismount options are a piked gainer off end or if you're willing to have her twist, then
bhs-1.5 or gainer full off side.

 

[Muddlethru]

I realized as gymdog states that there will be some twisting some time. I guess there is no way of really avoiding it.

Flipping out, my daughter is 13 years old and she will not switch gyms. I've tried convincing her but at her age, I don't want to have to force her. So, it does not seem like it is going to happen. Coaching is of course not ideal and is very frustrating. I do constantly worry and feel my daughter currently has maximized their coaching abilities. With several years still in Level 10, I don't know what kinds of improvements/skill difficulty can be added in her routines.

 

[flippin out]

I realized as gymdog states that there will be some twisting some time. I guess there is no way of really avoiding it.

Flipping out, my daughter is 13 years old and she will not switch gyms. I've tried convincing her but at her age, I don't want to have to force her. So, it does not seem like it is going to happen. Coaching is of course not ideal and is very frustrating. I do constantly worry and feel my daughter currently has maximized their coaching abilities. With several years still in Level 10, I don't know what kinds of improvements/skill difficulty can be added in her routines.

You have to do what you think is best. If you believe it's best to stay then do so. If you think it's best to move, then convince her. My dd moved gyms at age 14 (going into level 10) due to safety concerns. She was not thrilled about it, but it had to be done. It was a good decision.

 

[Aero]

@4theloveofsports | I suggest you do some more research on the situation. If it truly does seem like your daughter has maxed out the coaches' abilities, then you have to find out if the coaches are continuing their education. If they don't attend clinics or seminars, aren't at least trying new and different things, or the worst case scenario, they're stuck in their ways, then I suggest you switch gyms. If you have a daughter at level 10, you'd be doing her a huge disservice if you kept her at a gym that was preventing her further growth as an athlete, especially if she still has some years left at this level.

Make sure you talk with her about it. Get her to realize that she is stagnating, and if she wants to continue progressing, this gym simply will not cut it anymore. However, if she's perfectly fine with no more progression and she's completely happy staying at her current level and doing it for fun, then by all means, stay at the gym. In that situation, there is no issue.

 

[flippin out]

@4theloveofsports | I suggest you do some more research on the situation. If it truly does seem like your daughter has maxed out the coaches' abilities, then you have to find out if the coaches are continuing their education. If they don't attend clinics or seminars, aren't at least trying new and different things, or the worst case scenario, they're stuck in their ways, then I suggest you switch gyms. If you have a daughter at level 10, you'd be doing her a huge disservice if you kept her at a gym that was preventing her further growth as an athlete, especially if she still has some years left at this level.

Make sure you talk with her about it. Get her to realize that she is stagnating, and if she wants to continue progressing, this gym simply will not cut it anymore. However, if she's perfectly fine with no more progression and she's completely happy staying at her current level and doing it for fun, then by all means, stay at the gym. In that situation, there is no issue.

Agree with this 100%. Also, don't just think about progression coming to a stop....if the coaches do not know how to coach level 10 and she has maxed out their ability to help, then staying where she is could be a safety concern. If they allow her to try and progress, but cannot train her knowledgeably then her safety is a factor.

A coach who does not know their own limitations is much worse than a coach who is willing to admit when they have done all they know how and sit a kid and parent down to let them know ---I love you but if you stay where you are I will continue to coach to the best of my abilities but I can not take you further. And help them either adjust to this thinking it help them to find a gym more qualified to handle her needs.

Btw-I didn't give my dd a choice. Either stay where you are and never compete or train above what you have OR move to a gym that is better able to safely help you achieve your goals. Period

 

[Muddlethru]

I agree with both of you flippin out and aero, and I would love nothing more than to switch her. There have been so many instances that makes it evident, the coaches still do not know what they are doing (mostly the beam coach). We've had a coach that once trained an elite tell me my daughter is already past their coaching skills. This was last year. But we've just recently had Tammy Biggs at our gym. She may be coming back this summer. Our HC has expressed a desire to get more coaching. I've been trying to talk him into going for some training at the ranch or courses offered by the USAG. MSo I think and hope they will be getting more training. At the moment, I just can't force my daughter to switch gyms. She will be too devastated. But thank you for your insight.

 

[Missbeingagymmom]

Check the value of a gainer full off the side of the beam. It is used very often in college, sometimes connected to a cartwheel. Prettier than a gainer off the end of beam too.