Women Level 10 Vault Help!

[Gympops]

hello,

My daughter is in her first year of L10. She was successful and just wrapped up Regionals. Moving forward, she needs to have a L10 Vault with a Start Value at 10.0. She has been doing yurchenko layouts. She is a tiny gymnast though only weighing 76 pounds. So the yurchenko entry vault has been a challenge for her since L9 when the layout was a challenge. Now she is up against kids doing yurchenko halfs and fulls....getting 9.5's and she is behind as she is scoring a 9.0. She has been vaulting on 6 springs for a while and doesn't want to take a spring out of the board either.

My question is....what are some other L10 Vaults that are a 10.0 start value? She has a great chance of being recruited but definitely needs work on vault. Any help is appreciated! Thanks a lot

 

[Madds]

Tsuk tuck full has a 10.0 start value

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Lay half

 

[ZJsMom]

Yurchenkos are usually the best way to generate power for smaller gymnasts. Both of my kids went the Yurchenko route for this reason. Not that DS is really small, but he doesn't get great blocks from FHS and Tsuk entry.

What does her coach say about using fewer springs? If she's just too small to fully depress the board, there's no shame in that.

 

[profmom]

I like CoachP's idea. If she can get a decent block and is a really good twister, there are options there too -- DD is not a powerful vaulter but can't get the Yurchenko to work for her, so she is transitioning to some twisting progressions.

I think the plan is for DS, who is also no power vaulter, to start the transition to Yurchenko this summer.

 

[catova]

Lay half

Coach P, can you elaborate - what is this vault in 'uneducated parent' terms?

Also, do you think tiny girls (say under 75 lbs) are disadvantaged at higher level vaults in part because of their weight, and if so, is there some magic weight that makes vaulting 'easier'?

My 4'9", 71 lb DD (L8) is all muscle...runs fast...but has a heck of a time with vault. Very inconsistent in being able to do just a tsuk tuck. Switched to a twist vault (it looks like a L7 front handspring vault with a full twist) and it's still marginal. She's got some other tiny (height wise) gymnasts on her team who are very strong vaulters, but they've clearly got more muscle mass than her. She is 13 and just hitting puberty but doc thinks she's just going to be tiny (top out at 5' likely). Though she does serious conditioning at her gym, it's clear she has a harder time putting on muscle mass than others. I hope there is hope for her vault if she maxes out as an 85-pounder...

 

[gymmomx2]

Coach P, can you elaborate - what is this vault in 'uneducated parent' terms?

Also, do you think tiny girls (say under 75 lbs) are disadvantaged at higher level vaults in part because of their weight, and if so, is there some magic weight that makes vaulting 'easier'?

My 4'9", 71 lb DD (L8) is all muscle...runs fast...but has a heck of a time with vault. Very inconsistent in being able to do just a tsuk tuck. Switched to a twist vault (it looks like a L7 front handspring vault with a full twist) and it's still marginal. She's got some other tiny (height wise) gymnasts on her team who are very strong vaulters, but they've clearly got more muscle mass than her. She is 13 and just hitting puberty but doc thinks she's just going to be tiny (top out at 5' likely). Though she does serious conditioning at her gym, it's clear she has a harder time putting on muscle mass than others. I hope there is hope for her vault if she maxes out as an 85-pounder...

How big is Ragan Smith? Not that she's a super great vaulter but good enough to make elite....

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Coach P, can you elaborate - what is this vault in 'uneducated parent' terms?

Also, do you think tiny girls (say under 75 lbs) are disadvantaged at higher level vaults in part because of their weight, and if so, is there some magic weight that makes vaulting 'easier'?

My 4'9", 71 lb DD (L8) is all muscle...runs fast...but has a heck of a time with vault. Very inconsistent in being able to do just a tsuk tuck. Switched to a twist vault (it looks like a L7 front handspring vault with a full twist) and it's still marginal. She's got some other tiny (height wise) gymnasts on her team who are very strong vaulters, but they've clearly got more muscle mass than her. She is 13 and just hitting puberty but doc thinks she's just going to be tiny (top out at 5' likely). Though she does serious conditioning at her gym, it's clear she has a harder time putting on muscle mass than others. I hope there is hope for her vault if she maxes out as an 85-pounder...

Layout with a half twist. And yes kids will get better as they get older because they have more years to work on it.

 

[gymgal]

Layout with a half twist. And yes kids will get better as they get older because they have more years to work on it.

Think she is asking FHS, tsuk, or yurchenko?

 

[wandrewsjr]

It is much more about taking the time to develop technique than size. As someone else mentioned Ragan Smith is very tiny. Simone is only 4'9" so Ragan can't be more than 4'7".

 

[catova]

How big is Ragan Smith? Not that she's a super great vaulter but good enough to make elite....

It is much more about taking the time to develop technique than size. As someone else mentioned Ragan Smith is very tiny. Simone is only 4'9" so Ragan can't be more than 4'7".

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like the consensus is size /weight doesn't matter. That's good for DD. Coach P, yes, I am hoping that more years of vaulting will improve DD's vault .

Haha, let me be clear that DD does not have the talent/technique of an elite gymnast or yes, obviously she'd be able to vault better!

Still, One can look at Ragan and see muscle-y legs for days!! I've seen pics of her from a few years ago and she always had those strong legs. Not all gymnasts are that blessed.


The OP has a very tiny L10...if she were a little bigger, all things equal, would vault be easier ? There are a few girls on DD's team at L8 - L10 that are the same height or even slightly shorter than DD, but they have Ragan Smith legs and/or probably a good 10 lbs on DD and the OP's DD.

 

[catova]

Think she is asking FHS, tsuk, or yurchenko?

You are right. I thought Coach P meant tsuk layout with 1/2 twist....Coach, can you confirm? The OP said DD struggled with the yerchenko layout, and I know FHS with even a full twist is not an L10 vault...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

You are right. I thought Coach P meant tsuk layout with 1/2 twist....Coach, can you confirm? The OP said DD struggled with the yerchenko layout, and I know FHS with even a full twist is not an L10 vault...

The Op said she is working on Yurchenko Lay, asked what 10 SV could be. Yurchenko Lay half is a 10.0.

 

[2gymmies]

I Would think that she needs to really work the technique to turn her Roundoff over and get into the table... With shorter girls, the height and length of the springboard causes them to have a less than ideal entry... The good yurchenko layout, half or full will be much easier if she has a better entry.

 

[gymgal]

The Op said she is working on Yurchenko Lay, asked what 10 SV could be. Yurchenko Lay half is a 10.0.

Op said her dd struggled with the yurchenko layout, only managing score of 9. I read that to mean they don't think she will get a twist in that vt. Sounds like they are looking for vts other than that entry. Op, correct me if I'm off-base.

 

[ProudDad]

My DD is training L7 and is 55lbs soaking wet... vault has always been her biggest challenge. She's not competing anything other than the basic handspring vault, but this past season she really worked on sprinting and hitting the sweet spot on the spring board. She has 6 springs and has the table set at 4... which is taller than she is, so there is definitely hope. Also at our state meet there was a girl who was maybe 65 lbs that had a warm up vault where she nearly cleared the mat. Vault has a lot of physics and transfer of power into different directions... and all the power has to come from the speed of initial run. Maybe her coach can work with her and use video to spot areas where she can either improve initial energy or not lose as much in each stage of energy transfer.

 

[ProudDad]

Simone is only 4'9" so Ragan can't be more than 4'7".

Kim Z. Is 4'7" and Ragan is about 4" shorter. DD thought it was cool that she was the same height but 6 years younger. My mom was just excited to not be the shortest person in the room.

 

[Aero]

Also, do you think tiny girls (say under 75 lbs) are disadvantaged at higher level vaults in part because of their weight, and if so, is there some magic weight that makes vaulting 'easier'?

My 4'9", 71 lb DD (L8) is all muscle...runs fast...but has a heck of a time with vault. Very inconsistent in being able to do just a tsuk tuck. Switched to a twist vault (it looks like a L7 front handspring vault with a full twist) and it's still marginal. She's got some other tiny (height wise) gymnasts on her team who are very strong vaulters, but they've clearly got more muscle mass than her. She is 13 and just hitting puberty but doc thinks she's just going to be tiny (top out at 5' likely). Though she does serious conditioning at her gym, it's clear she has a harder time putting on muscle mass than others. I hope there is hope for her vault if she maxes out as an 85-pounder...

The laws of physics dictate that the faster an object is moving (the gymnast), the more it weighs when it impacts another object (the springboard). This explains why small girls have still been known to vault well; they run really, really fast, so that when they hit the board, they are able to deflect it way more then a girl who runs "kind of fast."

This also explains why an older, larger girl can sometimes vault better than a girl who is a bit smaller, even though the larger girl's technique is inferior to the more minuscule gymnast. The more impact applied to the springboard (force, causing deflection), the better the reaction of the board (restitution).

However, there is one factor that is within the gymnast's control: effort and experience! If she always trys hard, and keeps it up through the years, then great vaulting technique will not elude her.

 

[profmom]

I think some of it's about build too though. It's harder for a small stringbean than a small fireplug to get much lift off the springboard. For the stringbeans, it all has to be about technique. As the parent of two small, slow stringbeans, I despair of ever seeing them become awesome vaulters, but I don't think competence is out of reach.

 

[mimi]

The laws of physics dictate that the faster an object is moving (the gymnast), the more it weighs when it impacts another object (the springboard). This explains why small girls have still been known to vault well; they run really, really fast, so that when they hit the board, they are able to deflect it way more then a girl who runs "kind of fast."

This also explains why an older, larger girl can sometimes vault better than a girl who is a bit smaller, even though the larger girl's technique is inferior to the more minuscule gymnast. The more impact applied to the springboard (force, causing deflection), the better the reaction of the board (restitution).

However, there is one factor that is within the gymnast's control: effort and experience! If she always trys hard, and keeps it up through the years, then great vaulting technique will not elude her.

This is my DD. She is TINY, but runs like the wind. She didn't have any trouble laying out the level 9 vault this year even though she is about 4'6" and doesn't weigh any more than 70 lbs.

It is definitely possible for the smaller, lighter gymnasts to be good vaulters but it seems like they definitely need to run fast to use the laws of physics to get a good block.