Women Level 5 vs 6

[BarCoach]

I know this has been a topic of discussion many times but my gym is struggling with how to handle the levels.
We have a group of 9 girls who competed level 4 last season and did well (3rd team at states with a few state champs on events and all around). Our goal was to score them out of 5 and move them to 6. But meet season is coming up fast and bars is not where it needs to be. Our options had been 4 or 6 but there are a couple girls who aren't ready for 6 but we don't want to repeat 4. Is it worth considering doing 5? I'm beginning to feel like it is. What does your gym do and why?

 

[Elisabeth]

I think you should shoot for level 6 but if you dont have the skills by then you can complete level 5.

 

[happychaos]

Specifically, what skills are they missing? Our gym is finding that girls are scoring better in 6 than 5.

 

[BarCoach]

Mostly the clearhip. The majority of them are coming out at or below horizontal. I'm worried about the cast deduction in 6 for not hitting handstand. Most can cast above horizontal and half can cast handstand but not yet in a full routine.

 

[Seeker]

What's the goal though? To win this season or to continue to develop the skills needed to do well in upper optionals? If it were me, I would stick with 5 even if it is only because you won't have to create 9 floor routines...and 9 beam routine and 9 bar routines. Save all that time, focus on really developing the skills and aim to compete L7 next year. You could also consider doing a shorter season of 5 so you can devote time to skill development. Time spent now on bars will not go to waste.

Good luck!

 

[BarCoach]

Of course winning is always nice, but at this point the only reason for repeating 4 would be so they don't get crushed and devastated at meets as 6s. We didn't have any 5s last year so I'm not sure how that level is scored. It's hard to know whether its better to just let them try 6 so we don't have to spend time doing the 'put that foot here and this arm there' compulsory thing. But if they would score much better at level 5 bars because they aren't casting to handstand then I guess it's worth it. They already have floor routines.

 

[raenndrops]

I would honestly have routines ready for L6... but have them all start with L5. Once they get a 31.0, they can start to compete L6. (They could even compete both in the same meet as long as the levels are in different sessions.) They are allowed to go back and forth between 5 and 6 all season, so see which they prefer / score better with. We had 2 girls score out of old L6 to compete New L6 and they did struggle on bars, but both had 9s on floor and beam. Season bests of 34.9 and 35.675. If they had competed L5, I can guarantee that their season highs would have been closer to 31 - 32 at best. This season, we PLAN to have a L5 team... but 3/5 of the girls will be competing for the Middle School team first (modified Xcel Platinum rules with HS bonus). These routines would also work for L6, so HC and I were talking. These 5 girls will finish the MS season and start OUR season at L5. Then, once they earn 31 or better, she is PLANNING to let them compete L6. She MAY have one of the girls compete both levels in a single meet - if the sessions shake out right (L5 with L4 and not with L6). She is considering alternating which girl does double duty... and this is only IF they want to do it. If she can get 3 non-middle school girls who are ready for L5, that won't be as much of an issue.

 

[Seeker]

Of course winning is always nice, but at this point the only reason for repeating 4 would be so they don't get crushed and devastated at meets as 6s. We didn't have any 5s last year so I'm not sure how that level is scored. It's hard to know whether its better to just let them try 6 so we don't have to spend time doing the 'put that foot here and this arm there' compulsory thing. But if they would score much better at level 5 bars because they aren't casting to handstand then I guess it's worth it. They already have floor routines.

Oh, I see....I didn't get that it was L4 or L6 with L5 being somewhat out of the equation. I get it now. In that case, go for L6 and just train train train bars to get those casts as high as possible. Spend a few extra mins on bars or doing conditioning that will help them on bars. If their other events are solid, no reason to not move along.

 

[BarCoach]

5 is an option now, if it's the best one. We just hadn't been considering it previously. Mostly I just don't want to get killed on bars in 6 if they're not casting to handstand. Every other event they are fine for 6.

 

[Gymmomto2]

We don't have L5 at our gym. They all scored out last yr & this. No one had a cast to handstand & saw very few who did at meets. If they got above horizontal, they were high 8's low 9s. My DD personally did better at new L6 than old L5. She scored out of L6 but had flyaway & clear hip going in.

 

[raenndrops]

5 is an option now, if it's the best one. We just hadn't been considering it previously. Mostly I just don't want to get killed on bars in 6 if they're not casting to handstand. Every other event they are fine for 6.

You dont have to worry about being killed on bars... very few L6 have CHS, especially early in the season (if they did, most would probably be competing L7). What you do is limit the number of casts to limit the cast angle deductions. The cast before squat on doesn't count... plan routines with only one cast... as big as they can get... and they will do fine.

 

[raenndrops]

I just did some "snooping" on MyMeetScores... looked at NJ meets (it was the one that came up on my computer first)...
There was a girl that competed L5 last November and L6 in December... her L6 bar score was .425 higher than her L5 best score. Also, there were only 2 meets in which her L6 bar score was LOWER than her best L5 score (I would guess it was falls or an off day on bars).

 

[raenndrops]

OH..... @happychaos just shared something with me... from a Brevet Judge... might be an interesting strategy for L6 bars ...
"...I assume you're wondering if the L-6 can get the Horizontal Cast Special Requirement on a cast squat-on without incurring the Up to 0.30 Amplitude of Cast deduction. Very interesting, and YES, you can fulfill your SR and NOT get a cast angle deduction with this strategy, just be careful your gymnast is able to handle squatting on from a horizontal cast without falling forward.

SO, the moral of the story here is, if you have a girl that can cast to horizontal before her squat on, have her do that and NO OTHER CASTS in the routine... no "Up to 0.3 Amplitude deduction" and SR is met!

Every extra cast that is NOT to HS is subject to the "Up to 0.3 Amplitude deduction".

 

[BarCoach]

Interesting. But how will you clearhip without a cast first?

 

[fuzi]

Interesting. But how will you clearhip without a cast first?

Uprise?

Judging level 6 bars last year, the most consistent and highest scoring routines were kip, cast squat on, long hang kip, cast, clear-hip, flyaway. 6 skills, all SR filled as long as they cast above horizontal. The only issue with this routine is that if they don't cast to HS on their cast on the high bar, it gets "0" value and they are missing a skill, but since the clearhip is their "B" skill, they still have a 9.9 SV. I saw this routine with a 9.9 SV consistently score higher than routines that had a circling skill on both the low and high bar, and therefore more casts and kips (and cast and kip deductions).

 

[Seeker]

Uprise?

Judging level 6 bars last year, the most consistent and highest scoring routines were kip, cast squat on, long hang kip, cast, clear-hip, flyaway. 6 skills, all SR filled as long as they cast above horizontal. The only issue with this routine is that if they don't cast to HS on their cast on the high bar, it gets "0" value and they are missing a skill, but since the clearhip is their "B" skill, they still have a 9.9 SV. I saw this routine with a 9.9 SV consistently score higher than routines that had a circling skill on both the low and high bar, and therefore more casts and kips (and cast and kip deductions).

This is the key (in red). Minimizing the opportunity for deduction goes a long long way.

 

[aerials]

Our gym (and a lot of gyms here) are skipping level 6. They fine tune the skills for level 5 and do a ton of uptraining so that the girls are ready for level 7 the next year.