WAG Level 9 Spotting Deductions

[VBUBF]

My DD is a first year Level 9. She just recently had her first meet. She was spotted on her double backs on floor and on her shootovers on bars. On floor, she was not spotted on her landing. I think I saw the coach push her up a bit. Some mothers told me it looked like she was high enough and did not think she needed the spotting. My daughter feels she does and felt the coaches hand lightly on her back. I do not know what the judge saw. On bars, it was ver clear she was spotted even before she touched the low bar on her overshoots. Next meet is three weeks from now. Does anyone know the deduction for both spots? Also to coaches, would you rather have your gymnast be spotted or do away with the skill? Thank you in advance for any response.

 

[gymkat]

.5 and no VP for element

 

[VBUBF]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does VP stand for? I don't know if both bars and floor judges deducted for spotting. She got 8.70 on bars (which I think is high considering the heavy spot) and 8.50 on floor seems low for the routine she did except for the spot. I believe double back is a D skill and not required. So, could she just have been deducted for the spot?

 

[2gymmies]

VP is value part so no "C" or "D" credit or bonus if it was connected to something. A double back tuck on floor is a C and pike is a D, neither of which is required. Did she have 10 start values? Its hard to know about those scores without knowing what else was done on the routine.

 

[VBUBF]

Thank you 2gymmies. What are examples of c skills and b skills in acro and dance in level 9?

I guess the judges are going to score as they please. So, it is what it is. But I was wondering if a gymnast still needs a spot on a skill, is it better to do away with the skill or use the spot. Seems like you could get deducted for the spot and then not get credit for the skill. So, using a spot would get a larger deduction, is that right? Coach wants to keep double back (can't tell if it is a pike or tuck) with the spot because coach says that is the only way she"ll be able to do it. Her other tumbling passes are front handspring/front layout/front pike/sissone, and the third tumbling pass ends in a full and a half. Her leap series is stag leap, switch split to tour jete half. I believe she has other tumbling passes to replace double back but coach wants to keep it in.

 

[2gymmies]

A double back is definitely not needed at Level 9. If the coach got your dd to Level 9 and you trust him or her, then do exactly that and trust that they have a plan. It is so early in the optional season that I would think the coach plans on your dd doing the skill without a spot any time now and that is why it is being handled this way (to gain confidence and experience). Have faith and patience! Your dd has other pretty typical level 9 skills. I'm sure that by March, April, May when it really matters, she will be doing that double back without the coach on the floor. Best of luck!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Yikes! A BIG YIKES!!

 

[iwannacoach]

Just like 2gymmies said.....stay the course! It doesn't matter whether she needs it or not as a level 9 becuase she'll need it, or want to have it eventually. So what if he spots her just a little bit in November, and who cares if she needs to have a confidence boost with a coach at the ready to catch her if she's coming in to low during December.

This is a sport that requires constant forward motion to have a heathy sense of accomplishment. That forward motion can be in the form of cleaning up a skill and polishing it just as well as it can be in the form of learning a new skill. Keep in mind, while I rant just a little further, that the following is my own humble opinion to share with anyone who wants to read it......

Part of my bravo comes from knowing a double back takes time, and that you just have to keep plugging away at it with as few distractions as possible. Limited spotting allows her to continue training this skill with the same intensity, if not more, as inj the past few months. Saving time and energy by forgetting about plugging in a "substitute skill" makes sense too, and it creates an unspoken statement of commitment between the coach, gymnast, and hopefully parents, which will help drive the car up that hill with even more ease.

What I really liked hearing about is the way the coach followed through with the spot, regardless of how high and mighty the take-off seemed. It showed maturity to spot the skill as promised rather than shift over to the landing area just to show the kid she was "ready".....who cares about that when it can shake a kid's confidence?

Just had to say.......

 

[Deleted member D3987]

c'mon iwannacoach, i've been at this my whole life practically and i have NEVER seen a coach go out on the floor during a meet and spot a double back. this means she CAN'T do one. doesn't HAVE IT.

if i'm not reading the post correctly then someone please correct me. coaches don't go out on the floor during competitions to spot double backs on floor. this is preposterous and i don't believe it.

eta: i want to see a video of this. if it exists, i can take it with me when i lecture to teach coaches that this is NOT how it is done. and you're an idiot for subjecting a kid to that kind of risk knowing that a whole lot of preparation in the gym goes in to the training of a double back for competition. and all the "what if's" are mitigated during those practice sessions.

 

[iwannacoach]

Well you're right, I've never seen it either, but that doesn't mean there's no circumstance or context where it might be the right thing to do in a pretty narrow context.....

I'm not talking about going out on the floor and doing the skill for them, but wouldn't mind seeing an occassional light spot to keep a kid's skill development in constant forward motion at the early stage of the season. I'm a little perplexed by the notion that some coaches think nothing of standing in close on release moves, and will spot them when needed, but the same sense of caution is way out of line on floor. Why should that be a problem when all the coach did was spot the kid lightly, possibly wouldn't even have touched her, except it seemed the kid and the coach had agreed on a touch on the way up, and you can't change that agreement during a take-off.

The context is simply that when this time of year comes around there's a destructive rush to "make it or break it" with the alternative choice of abandoning skills that have been worked on since late spring because they aren't ready. I consider tossing away the progress made from late May to early November a huge loss that can't be recovered by resuming work on the skill the following spring.

I guess I take a different view of what the early season is all about. I've never taken kids to meets this early in the year because it cuts the developmental training short, but if I did I would consider them practice meets and treat them more like practice than a meet. I have to admit I've never spotted any of my kids doing doubles in a meet except for a few in warm ups, and that brings me to another thought or two.

Many coaches spot during the warm up sessions and some don't. I assume the kids who aren't being spotted have the skill more solidly than those who get spotted, so just continuing that thought, doesn't that mean the kids who get spotted in warm ups are somewhat unprepared to do the skill. My feeling is the "what ifs" are at every large meet, so what's the big deal about a coach and a kid making a public statement about the kid's state of progress for the skill, at least they're being honest....and safe.

I wouldn't want to see more than a few kids getting helped this way because training the skill should be planned out by qualified coaches and progressed through with capable kids....but sometimes things don't go exactly as planned and a kid gets three or four weeks behind, and that's where I see room for an exception. If they take time to work some other skill, even if it takes away just 2 or 3 double back work sessions, it puts them even further behind on a skill they could otherwise compete safely in January, and have looking pretty skippy by late February.

I get that there could be a virtual flood of posers out there with kids that won't have the skill any time during the season, and I'd hate to see it get to that point. So what do you do......Stop, interrupt, or impede progress in early November.....Not schedule meets in November....or spot the skill just a wee bit in November. My choice is to not schedule for November, but if somebody forced me, under penalty of chalkless bar workouts for a year, to compete kids in November, I sure as heck wouldn't mess up a kid's chance to have a good skill by the time it was important to have it in January.

I don't know if that makes sense to you, and I doubt I'll ever be in a position to spot floor tumbling at a meet..... but if I see it happen in November or December I'm gonna assume the skills there, and the spotting is a matter of "economy" rather than neccesity.

Oh yeah, don't worry dunno. I'm not going to ask you to spot any of my tumbling at meets, and I sure ain't gonna spot any of your's, unless we both want rupture achilles tendons and torn bicepts. Of course there's always that darn Suzie and her kip problem...... we could take turns spotting her for the next five years. Hey waddaya think....maybe she needs to push her hips into the exte..........

 

[VBUBF]

I see significant value in both dunno's and iwannacoach's post. Both seem on point. I feel the fact that my daughter is being spotted on double backs and her shootovers indicates she does not have the skill. That is why I wondered if she would be better to do without them or get spotted at a meet. But my daughter's coaches believe in iwannacoach's arguments. My daughter wants to keep the double back in her routine so I support her keeping it there. But at the same time I worry about her not being able to do it. The last meet was an in house meet. So, it was treated as a practice meet. But our next meet is in three weeks and it is one of our biggest meet. Her score with the spot was 8.4. I am assuming she was deducted at least .5 for,the spot and maybe another .5 for the PV? If she replaced it with a whip full and a half (is that a C? If not what are samples of a C?), which is the coach's plan B, would that be better? But then again as iwannacoach said, it may slow down the progress of her double back.

 

[CoachGoofy]

We weren't allowed to do doubles (USTAtumbling) on tumbling unless a coach was there for the skill. Association rule. That isn't artistic, but it *was* policy. *shrug*

I've seen some weiiiird things in my time wrt spotting.

edited BC I can't keep my associations straight, I'm old.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I see significant value in both dunno's and iwannacoach's post. Both seem on point. I feel the fact that my daughter is being spotted on double backs and her shootovers indicates she does not have the skill. That is why I wondered if she would be better to do without them or get spotted at a meet. But my daughter's coaches believe in iwannacoach's arguments. My daughter wants to keep the double back in her routine so I support her keeping it there. But at the same time I worry about her not being able to do it. The last meet was an in house meet. So, it was treated as a practice meet. But our next meet is in three weeks and it is one of our biggest meet. Her score with the spot was 8.4. I am assuming she was deducted at least .5 for,the spot and maybe another .5 for the PV? If she replaced it with a whip full and a half (is that a C? If not what are samples of a C?), which is the coach's plan B, would that be better? But then again as iwannacoach said, it may slow down the progress of her double back.

doing it with a spot in a practice meet is usual and appropriate. safety first. just hope that she has done them by herself prior to the meet. although my opinion is that 3 weeks prior is not enough time for preparation. doing anything else in its place, even just a layout, is BETTER than face planting/landing short a "first" double back by themselves at their "first" competition where that double back is performed. and if a coach goes on to the floor of a competition at this level to spot said skill? i can't even find the words...

 

[VBUBF]

doing it with a spot in a practice meet is usual and appropriate. safety first. just hope that she has done them by herself prior to the meet. although my opinion is that 3 weeks prior is not enough time for preparation. doing anything else in its place, even just a layout, is BETTER than face planting/landing short a "first" double back by themselves at their "first" competition where that double back is performed. and if a coach goes on to the floor of a competition at this level to spot said skill? i can't even find the words...

Thanks dunno. I will see where she's at by our next meet and if skill is still pretty iffy, I will request for my daughter to do another skill. I hope the coach does what is best and knows what he/she is doing.

 

[VBUBF]

doing it with a spot in a practice meet is usual and appropriate. safety first. just hope that she has done them by herself prior to the meet. although my opinion is that 3 weeks prior is not enough time for preparation. doing anything else in its place, even just a layout, is BETTER than face planting/landing short a "first" double back by themselves at their "first" competition where that double back is performed. and if a coach goes on to the floor of a competition at this level to spot said skill? i can't even find the words...

Ok, Mr Dunno. Last week, my daughter told me was the first time she's ever done the double back by herself. The did it by herself a few times with the coach standing next to her. She did not stick it but either over rotated a bit landing on her feet (probably on a deep squat) and falling forward or under rotating, landing on her feet but falling backwards. Meet is in two weeks. Any thoughts/suggestions on her readiness?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

what you are describing can be construed as inconsistent. and i'd have to see video. hope she OVER rotates if the coach decides to have her do it. this is not like deciding if the kid is going to do a kip or not.

 

[VBUBF]

what you are describing can be construed as inconsistent. and i'd have to see video. hope she OVER rotates if the coach decides to have her do it. this is not like deciding if the kid is going to do a kip or not.

It is inconsistent at this point. I do not have a video and I don't know if I'll be able to get one since we are only allowed to watch the last 15 mins of practice and they don't always do floor at the end. But your comment about hoping she over rotates is more helpful than you think. I'll tell her over rotating is better and if she is in doubt, she should go for over rotating. Lastly, she finds it more difficult to use a landing matt and prefers to just land on the floor. Is that o.k. considering where she is on the skill? Thank you .

 

[Deleted member D3987]

again, i'd have to see it to measure where she is when she opens. some kids just don't flat out like the mat on the floor. it screws them up.