WAG Long post- CGM and kicking out of program?

[cbifoja]

Parents... If you don't coach you don't understand what a posistion this puts this coach in. She now has to try to plan two completely differnt lesson plans to keep this child moving forward however she has the whole group to consider as well. This is a huge safety issue. The HC agrees she should have never been placed thereto start but refuses to do anything about it. Unfortunately this places the liability on the coach. If this child gets hurt trying something she is not ready for she is liable. So she has to try to mange this all on her own. I can gaurentee this kid knows she is so far behind the others. They are perceptive and the coach is not what she is picking up on. It sets her up for failure which is a disservice to her. This coach is trying to do what's best for the child so that she will thrive and love this sport.

The problem will unfortunately most likely solve itself as this child will learn to hate gym and quit and mom will be livid.

I don't coach but as a teacher I can 100% empathize with the position CoachMeg is in. It is a bad situation that should be corrected but it sounds like that isn't going to happen. It is VERY difficult to incorporate such a wide variety of skills just like it is hard to incorporate all the different levels of learning in the classroom. I teach high school. That's what I'm trained to do and that is how I plan my lessons. I cannot imagine how frustrated I would be if they all the sudden through a 5th grader into my classroom!

I wouldn't hate the 5th grader but yes, I would want that kid out of my room. For one, the 5th grader isn't having his needs met. Secondly, I'd have to spend so much time with the 5th grader, that my high school kids wouldn't be getting the lessons that they are ready for. I'm not a bad teacher, an impatient teacher, or a lazy teacher. I'm just in a bad situation.

CoachMeg.....I get where you are coming from and what you are feeling. I get that you want two things: For Suzie to be in a class where she feels good about herself and for your girls to continue working toward their goals. It is NOT a reflection on you that those two things can't happen in the same class.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Your comments are unwanted at this point. Thank you for taking the time to comment many times in this post, but your using a bad gymnastics experience to judge me as a coach. I said I "wanted to pull my hair out" when I realized how behind she was. Direct yourself to page 2 of the thread and please look at the skills Suzie had upon entering. The hair pulling comment was not directed AT Suzie (as in, omg I cannot handle this kid), it was directed at the jumble of levels within one single group.
Please stop acting like you personally know the HC, Suzie, and her mother. Because you don't. However....I do. I'm not dismissing your "advice" because I don't want to hear the fact that I'm a bad coach that needs to learn how to have some patience. I'm dismissing your advice because you are using your personal (bad) experience to create thoughts and feelings for people that you have never met. And I have. And I'm telling you that is not how it is, yet you refuse to acknowledge that

Of course I don't know them or you. I am not disagreeing with you that Suzie didn't have the skills she needed or that she was a good fit. This isn't about that really, is it? It's about why you aren't able to fix it, why aren't you getting the response you want at work. The stuff I am talking about in the workplace comes from very positive successful years working on teams in icky ol' corporate America (yep it's icky sometimes). I am totally Ok with you dismissing my advice. Hopefully you do have someone you can trust who will help you deal with those in your workplace who you aren't backing you up. You seem to take things really personally and defensively, I did too when I was in my twenties.

You definitely don' t need to read any of my posts--no offense taken! I skip tons of posters/posts myself. I haven't posted anything inappropriate, just stuff you don't want to hear.

You don't run the board and don't have the right to make the rules here which I do follow, but you certainly can ignore me! That's OK, I have a thick skin. I'm not known to be one who sugar coats for the sake of sugar coating, but of course I don't know you personally as you don't know me or my kid. Gymnastics has been a wonderful experience for my daughter, and with one exception, her coaches over the years have all been pretty decent (and also probably under paid for what they do like teachers I might add)...

 

[twinmomma]

Your comments are unwanted at this point. Thank you for taking the time to comment many times in this post, but your using a bad gymnastics experience to judge me as a coach. I said I "wanted to pull my hair out" when I realized how behind she was. Direct yourself to page 2 of the thread and please look at the skills Suzie had upon entering. The hair pulling comment was not directed AT Suzie (as in, omg I cannot handle this kid), it was directed at the jumble of levels within one single group.
Please stop acting like you personally know the HC, Suzie, and her mother. Because you don't. However....I do. I'm not dismissing your "advice" because I don't want to hear the fact that I'm a bad coach that needs to learn how to have some patience. I'm dismissing your advice because you are using your personal (bad) experience to create thoughts and feelings for people that you have never met. And I have. And I'm telling you that is not how it is, yet you refuse to acknowledge that

Of course I don't know them or you. I am not disagreeing with you that Suzie didn't have the skills she needed or that she was a good fit. This isn't about that really, is it? It's about why you aren't able to fix it, why aren't you getting the response you want at work. The stuff I am talking about in the workplace comes from very positive successful years working on teams in icky ol' corporate America (yep it's icky sometimes). I am totally Ok with you dismissing my advice. Hopefully you do have someone you can trust who will help you deal with those in your workplace who you aren't backing you up. You seem to take things really personally and defensively, I did too when I was in my twenties.

I think the issue here is that you are coming off as knowing what CoachMeg's 'real' problem is and dismissing what the issue is that she came here to deal with. You're coming off as you know better without being the person involved in the situation other than what you're assuming. You've repeatedly assumed that CoachMeg is the problem and that she's putting off some sort of attitude to Suzie despite everything CoachMeg says to the contrary. As someone who worked in "corporate America" you should know that it is absolutely possible to work with someone who you don't believe to be up to the task but make the best of it and treat them with respect, especially when that person has been put in a situation not of their own doing.

It's honestly not so much what you've said, it's how you've said it and your insistence that Meg is essentially a bad coach or someone who is not self aware enough to know she must be the problem.

 

[happychaos]

Coachmeg, something to consider is that your original question was not asking for advice on how to effectively coach Suzie, but you were point-blank asking for advice on how to kick Suzie out of the program. I think that the title of this thread may be more telling than you realize. Just something to think about.

Suzie's placement is obviously not a huge concern for the HC, or for the bar and vault coach. At DD's gym, mixed-level groups are not uncommon, and while it's not ideal, the coaches make it work. Perhaps you could start a thread on the coaches forum asking for advice on how to coach girls with such varied skills. Excel coaches deal with this all the time, too. No, it's not fair to Suzie or the other girls, but it's your job to figure out how to make it work. You've got a great opportunity to grow as a coach, and to show your boss that you are the kind of coach who can adapt, and make the best of it! And you even get some practice dealing with a CGM to boot

 

[my4buffaloes]

You don't run the board and don't have the right to make the rules here which I do follow, but you certainly can ignore me! That's OK, I have a thick skin. I'm not known to be one who sugar coats for the sake of sugar coating, but of course I don't know you personally as you don't know me or my kid. Gymnastics has been a wonderful experience for my daughter, and with one exception, her coaches over the years have all been pretty decent (and also probably under paid for what they do like teachers I might add)...

You might not have technically posted anything inappropriate, but you are making personal attacks about a member/coach that you do not know - really you don't know anything about her. And you keep berating her about issues that you are reading into the situation, not about what is actually going on. I have had to bite my tongue several times in this thread at your rude and negative comments. But I can't any longer. You are going too far and it needs to stop. Just because you don't think CoachMeg is right, does not mean that you are right. You are creating a lot of negativity in this thread that does not need to be here.

 

[skschlag]

I think a mixed level group is different than this situation. My son was in a group with 1 level 7, 4 8s and 3 9s last year. But that is different. But take a group of 5 level 10s and put a level 5 in there, and it is a different story...

But if the class is made of all mixed levels that is different. This one is not. It is not a group of kids on many different levels. Most are just about ready for level 3. Then throw in a kid that should probably be in beginner.

The title might have been misleading, but he post was not. She does think the girl shoudl be out of the "preteam program" if that is what you want to call it. She should be in beginners/advanced to learn the skills to move to preteam.

 

[Midwestmommy]

You might not have technically posted anything inappropriate, but you are making personal attacks about a member/coach that you do not know - really you don't know anything about her. And you keep berating her about issues that you are reading into the situation, not about what is actually going on

Oh for heavens sakes peeps, she is the one saying she can't get the head coach to do anything! I didn't say she wasn't right that the kid is in her group. She can't get her coworkers to back her up to do anything about it.... So the focus has to be on why not? How does she get credibility with them. That is not a personal attack. This is the kind of stuff people in management get coaching training on all the time (coworkers, clients, board of directors, whoever it is you gotta learn to influence). It is saying figure out how to get what you want. And yes WSCoachly is liking anything that attacks me. It is totally fine..I am not going to be devastated or upset. They are welcome to their opinion. Um, I didn't make up the title to her thread people. Frankly she has attacked me personally, and I'm not crying about it. It's fine. Dunno has several times over the last year highlighted my whole post and says something to the effect of "hogwash." He did it on this one. That's OK too..... He is entitled to his opinion. That's a pretty aggressive attack on me, but he is entitled. It's just a sounding board. And sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I don't. And he couldn't care less one way or the other what I think (and it's mutual on some topics) and that is fine too. But I am 100% entertained by and enjoy his posts, I would say for sure!

Um, what she asked for is how to get the kid off her team (read her title). Right? Well, she needs to figure out how have credibility and influence with her owner and coworkers. That's not a personal attack.

 

[bogwoppit]

How on earth has this thread grown to 6 pages. When I first saw it my instinct was to move it to the private coaches forum, after reading all that ^^^ I definitely should have.

@CoachMeg if you want the thread moved let me know, you have my sympathies. My girls were in mixed training groups for most of their gym lives, it was very hard on the coaches and slowed down the progress of the stronger girls. It is far from ideal.

 

[Midwestmommy]

It's honestly not so much what you've said, it's how you've said it and your insistence that Meg is essentially a bad coach or someone who is not self aware enough to know she must be the problem.

I did not say she is a bad coach. You made that up to attack me, right? I said that kids know when a coach doesn't want them in the group (even when you try to hide which most do)... That is 100% true. I also did not say she is not self aware enough to know she is the problem, you also made those words to attack me. You, me, that guy across the hall, that one at the restaurant over there.... We can't fix other people! We can only change what we do in interacting with them to have more credibility and influence them get our way. People don't change because you prove how right you are. They change because the benefit of changing outweights the cost of not changing. If what you are doing ain't working try something else.... That's not a personal attack, and saying it isn't accusing the person of not being self-aware and that you are the problem. It is saying only you (each of us) can be the solution in our own messes, even the ones other people have thrown in laps and walked away leaving us to deal with it.

 

[bogwoppit]

I think we are done here folks, this is starting to go places threads never should go.

I think Meg has the input she wanted, plus a ton of other input. Issue has been hashed to death and now is turning in to a "he said she said" thread.

 

[happychaos]

I think a mixed level group is different than this situation. My son was in a group with 1 level 7, 4 8s and 3 9s last year. But that is different. But take a group of 5 level 10s and put a level 5 in there, and it is a different story...

But if the class is made of all mixed levels that is different. This one is not. It is not a group of kids on many different levels. Most are just about ready for level 3. Then throw in a kid that should probably be in beginner.

The title might have been misleading, but he post was not. She does think the girl shoudl be out of the "preteam program" if that is what you want to call it. She should be in beginners/advanced to learn the skills to move to preteam.

But Suzie apparently isn't going to be "kicked out", and now it's coach Meg's job to make it work. I think everyone recognizes that the situation is not ideal. Not only does she have the difficult task of coaching and dealing with an unsupportive HC, but she also needs to ensure that her negativity is not making the situation worse. And I don't mean this as an attack on Meg, AT ALL! I had a student for about 6 months that I just couldn't stand. The kid drove me crazy. I had to work really hard to not let it show. It is what it is.

It seems that at this point, the only thing for Meg to do is to get some advice on coaching multi-level groups, and do the best she can. Our excel coach has bronze through platinum. I'm not sure how he does it, but I guess it works.

 

[Sari]

You might not have technically posted anything inappropriate, but you are making personal attacks about a member/coach that you do not know - really you don't know anything about her. And you keep berating her about issues that you are reading into the situation, not about what is actually going on. I have had to bite my tongue several times in this thread at your rude and negative comments. But I can't any longer. You are going too far and it needs to stop. Just because you don't think CoachMeg is right, does not mean that you are right. You are creating a lot of negativity in this thread that does not need to be here.

I don't think she's created negativity, it's the way people have been misunderstanding one another. I see her point (currently dealing with a similar situation at a uni project with elementary school kids) of not totally searching for problems in others, but in ourselves as well.

That being said, from what I've gathered by reading through this thread in its entirety, the OP (and feel free to correct me if I'm misjudging you!) is frustrated about not being able to meet the needs of all her gymnasts, both Suzie's and the rest of the group's, if Suzie remains in this preteam setting.

I get that. Been there done that. I constantly have kids coming into my group of littles who can't kick up to handstand or do a proper forward roll when I was JUST starting to work on back extension rolls and back walkovers with everyone else. It's your perception that determines how you deal with a situation like that. OP, despite feeling as though the group wasn't a good fit, has tried her best to make it work, for almost half a year, but significantly modifying training for one girl is just not feasible. With older girls, or upper levels, sure. But not in this particular case.

It's easy to carried away talking about the ideal coach who's capable of pulling of something like that and being successful, moving all gymnasts along equally... But again, that takes experience, significant amounts of self esteem, a lot of improvising and a high (really high) tolerance for frustration. A coach can grow from it, or fail miserably and lose passion for their job.

What also plays into the issue, as others have said, is the fact that HC is not on board with the OP. Behind the scenes, sure, but not in an open conflict with the parent in question. This would annoy me even if Suzie's mother behaved like an angel on Earth. It builds OP's frustration up even more because there seems to be no way out of this situation other than resigning, which I'm guess isn't something she wants to do. So she's left smack in the middle of a conflict she can't solve because she doesn't have the authority to talk to the parent herself and HC is seemingly feeding both parties what they want to hear without stepping up to the plate as you would expect and take steps to resolve the issue.

Is HC in the gym during preteam training hours? Maybe if he saw for himself how you're (again assuming here) struggling to integrate Suzie into the group, he'd be more willing to overcome his fear of confrontation and talk to Suzie's mom. In the meantime, sending positive vibes your way and hoping you can make the best out of this situation while it lasts.

 

[AgingHippie]

All the differing opinions aside. I personally would really like to know if the situation gets resolved. For CoachMeg's sake and of course my morbid curiosity. It seems like this will be dealt with now that is has been escalated to the Owner. I feel if there is closure and the gymnast will not be moved CoachMeg will adjust. It seems to me the being strung along by the HC has caused most of the frustration!

 

[CoachMeg]

I think we are done here folks, this is starting to go places threads never should go.

I think Meg has the input she wanted, plus a ton of other input. Issue has been hashed to death and now is turning in to a "he said she said" thread.

I agree, I don't think the thread needs to me moved...I think it just needs to be done. I was not expecting for this post to create such discussion, but thanks to those that offered advice.

 

[bogwoppit]

Your wish is my command.

Thread closed.

Move along people, nothing here to see.