WAG Long post- CGM and kicking out of program?

[Deleted member 18037]

But if it is the wrong group, it is the wrong group. And hc should back his coaches and be willing to help.

It sounds like he either isn't agreeing with her or isn't willing to take action.
.

Its not OR.

He is in agreement AND he is not taking any action. He is the boss. He is not stepping up and doing his job. She is frustrated and has no ability to force HC to step up.

It really sucks to be her. BTDT

 

[Deleted member 18037]

And may be this kid just doesn't like gym. And maybe Mom is not hearing that. So the kid is showing it by her actions.

How on earth does anyone know it would be sad for this particular child to quit gym.

Maybe she would do a ROBHS if she learned she was done with gym.

Because not every kid LOVES gymnastics.

 

[GYM0M]

How on earth does anyone know it would be sad for this particular child to quit gym.

Sad if she's not quitting on HER terms. Sad if she's kicked out because none of this is her fault.

Because not every kid LOVES gymnastics.

No, not every kid LOVES gymnastics, but most LIKE it. And, fwiw, I think everyone can learn something from gymnastics. EVERY parent, child, coach, & even spectators of the sport CAN benefit from the things gymnastics entails. It might not be 'gymnastics' per se, but gymnastics teaches so much more than just the skills. Maybe for this girl, it could help with separation anxiety or help her develop social skills. Like I said, everyone can benefit from gymnastics & it's sad if they don't learn their lesson before they quit.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

No, not every kid LOVES gymnastics, but most LIKE it. And, fwiw, I think everyone can learn something from gymnastics. EVERY parent, child, coach, & even spectators of the sport CAN benefit from the things gymnastics entails. It might not be 'gymnastics' per se, but gymnastics teaches so much more than just the skills. Maybe for this girl, it could help with separation anxiety or help her develop social skills. Like I said, everyone can benefit from gymnastics & it's sad if they don't learn their lesson before they quit.

No not really.

And I guess you can make a case that everyone can learn something from anything. With one huge caviat. they need to be willing.

I know plenty of kids who don't like it.

And you only benefit from something if you are invested in it. If you like it.

I think all kids benefit from learning to play an instrument. My kid until recently has been amandant NO WAY. There would be no benefit. Now next year is 4th grade, lots of kids taking up instruments, she is ready.

No matter how good the teacher, if the student is not willing, it is lost.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Sad if she's not quitting on HER terms. Sad if she's kicked out because none of this is her fault.
.

How does anyone know what this kids "terms" are. Maybe she never wanted in to begin with.

The OP has not seemed to express this is a kid loving gym and its the parents craziness.

You know even many kids with ADHD, are capable of focus for something they love.

Based on what the OP shared, this kid won't miss a beat if there is a change to gym

 

[GYM0M]

No matter how good the teacher, if the student is not willing, it is lost.

True, but I don't recall the coach stating that the little girl wasn't putting forth any effort. Only recall frustrations stemming from a series of events that were well beyond the control of the little girl. I agree HC needs to *cough* grow a p....I mean, handle the situation, mom needs a chill pill, and OPCoach needs some resolution and relief, BUT when all is said and done AND all ADULT parties involved cannot reach a compromise or a resolution, the little girl will be the one who pays the price, even if she doesn't even LIKE gymnastics.

 

[suebee]

It sounds like a difficult situation.

You coach beam and floor. What does the coach who coaches Suzie on vault and bars think? Do you both share the same opinion about Suzie? It sounded like from your posts that you are the one who is bringing up concerns about Suzie to the HC. Why isn't the other coach?

I think that conflicts between any two people are best addressed when the different parties are able to both sit down and honestly discuss their concerns and each person is willing to listen, and then try to come up with a solution together. It sounds like part of the problem here is that you have a solution (get Suzie out of this group), your HC has a solution (leave Suzie in the group), and Suzie's mom has a solution (leave her in the group and complain about you). But it also sounds like you're guessing at what the HC's and Suzie's mom's concerns are. It's possible that you're right, but it's also possible that there are other things going on that are affecting their ideas that you are not aware of.

I'd probably recommend talking to the HC first and listening to what his concerns are. Is it really that he just wants to avoid conflict with Suzie's mom? Or is there something else going on that he isn't saying? If he just wants to avoid Suzie's mom and that's the only issue, then perhaps he can delegate dealing wih Suzie's mom to you and give you the authority to handle it.

I think something else is missing here too is Suzie's mom's perspective. Perhaps she is just a crazy person (they do exist) but perhaps she also has some legitimate concerns. She keeps bringing Suzie instead of quitting or switching gyms, and there must be a reason. Trying to understand her concerns might help you solve this situation to everyone's (sort of) satisfaction.

It sounds to me like your main concern is that it is difficult to work with the other kids because Suzie is not at the same level. This is a perfectly legitimate concern, and one I would imagine the HC would understand. It sounds like behavior is another major concer for you, also completely understandable.

I think also that there may be other issues for Suzie. Maybe they are formally diagnosed and maybe not. I have a kid on the spectrum (not my gymmie) and I homeschool him. Mom may not homeschool Suzie because she's a control freak but she may find that Suzie has a lot more success when there is a lot more flexibility and individualized attention and that she may struggle significantly in public school. Mom may have some insight into Suzie's needs that she may not have shared with you for whatever reason, but may share if you ask in the interest of really trying to help Suzie with what her goals are.

Good luck.

 

[raenndrops]

I know all gyms are different. What I said was " At our gym it would be really odd for preteam to be working ro-BHS-BHS." I did not say why are pre-teamers working ro-bhs?!

Are you by any chance a younger/newer coach? What qualities did the other coach see in this child that they placed them on the preteam group? What I am trying to say is that this kid and parent are picking up on your frustration and negativity, and from your post it sounds like it was there from the first few weeks. Are you really saying you haven't felt all along that you didn't want this kid in your group? If you felt this way, it is very, very likely that this child picked up on it immediately.

It's not just this child that is getting evaluated by the owner of the gym. How you handle this situation and take up this challenge, well he will notice. Is it an opportunity or just a problem? I have sure had some pain in the #$! customers over the years. I have learned the most over the years is how I respond to the worst ones always comes back to reflect on me more than how I respond to the easy ones.

If a gymnast has a RO-BHS, why can't they work RO-BHS-BHS? Just because they are pre-team doesn't mean that their gymnastics should be stifled.
Also, some gyms don't compete L3, so at THOSE gyms, pre-team would be preparing for Level 4 (not the case in this gym since she said that they tested for L3).

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Also, some gyms don't compete L3, so at THOSE gyms, pre-team would be preparing for Level 4 (not the case in this gym since she said that they tested for L3).

Yep by the standards. It really doesn't start until level 4

 

[raenndrops]

huh? she didn't insinuate any of the above.

Oh, come on. What she did communicate really clearly is that she thought right away they didn't belong in the program, and that the person who placed them there made a mistake. And in staff meetings (4 of them) brought it up to try to get her out of the group, and didn't get anywhere with the owner and other coaches.

There little to no chance a ten year old kid didn't pick up on the fact a coach that doesn't want them there.

I don't like discounting this situation as "Suzie's mom" unless I have heard from Suzie's mom... the truth usually lies in the middle, because we all color our perceptions of what we see from our own experiences (me too). And I would be shocked Dunno if you didn't completely discount everything I say as a "dumb parent." That's OK, I'm used to it and it just makes me chuckle. Was kind of waiting for it, actually. Adds to the entertainment of the board, and I'm not offended. We aren't talking about an elite gymnast here, just another invisible kid from the "elite" perspective.

What we do know is that her methods of getting the girl off her team haven't worked, and maybe another approach would be more effective.

She is not trying to get the girl "off team." The girl is PRE-TEAM and the coach is working with her. The girl tried out for team and got a 37% ... when the LOWEST you could score was 30%. The coach in question had NOTHING to do with the scoring at tryouts! It was OTHER coaches that scored the girls trying out.

Then, the mother was upset that her daughter didn't qualify for the team - as in she didn't score at least 80% (roughly earning half 2s and half 3s).

 

[MILgymFAM]

She is not trying to get the girl "off team." The girl is PRE-TEAM and the coach is working with her. The girl tried out for team and got a 37% ... when the LOWEST you could score was 30%. The coach in question had NOTHING to do with the scoring at tryouts! It was OTHER coaches that scored the girls trying out.

Then, the mother was upset that her daughter didn't qualify for the team - as in she didn't score at least 80% (roughly earning half 2s and half 3s).

Not for nothing, but the title of the thread says it all. The girl didn't make it onto level 3, so that's not even a part of the conversation really. The OP wants the girl off the preteam, period. OP stated that at her gym preteam counts as team. It's not a matter of more time or objective judging- she wants her gone, i.e. to be someone else's problem. At least that was my impression.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

In Fairness to the OP, it has taken five months to finally come here for advise - so obviously at this point the frustration is boiling over a fair bit. I would have the same feelings if a situation like that was allowed to carry on for so long without intervention from my head coach.

Our pre-team requirements are:

Vault
- run full speed down the runway with acceleration (Suzie can not do due to her feet turning in on every step)
- straight jump up to Level 3 resi pit mat (Suzie can not do)

Bars
- pull over (Suzie can not do)
- 3 casts in row
- back hip circle (Suzie can not do)

Beam
- walk on medium/high beam without fear forwards, backwards, and sideways
- straight jump (Suzie can not do without falling off)
- handstand on low-medium beam returning to lunge : does not have to be vertical (Suzie can not do)

Floor
- vertical handstand
- cartwheel returning to lunge
- round off with rebound (Suzie can not do)
- backbend from stand (Suzie can no do)
- bridge with straight arms holding for 5 seconds
- bridge kick over (Suzie can not do)

Flexibility
- good leg split 5 inches from floor
- pike stretch with nose 5 inches from knees

Strength
- rope climb half way (Suzie can not do)
- 10 v-ups correct form (Suzie can not do)
- plank hold 30 seconds with correct form (Suzie can not do)

This is pretty much what is required to join my recreation team (low hours). There are many children in our recreational program who can do these skills on one class a week. I would be frustrated if a child was put in my group who lacked these skills, while it is possible to have separate stations for different abilities, it does make it very difficult (especially in a larger group). I don't think it is unfair to expect a 10 year old to have a little more in the skill department to enter the developing phase of the competitive program for the gym.
I also don't see the tumbling as out of the ordinary - tumbling is often easier for children to get the hang of, over skills on other apparatus. What I see is a kid with below average ability in a class for children with average to high ability.

 

[momnipotent]

Not for nothing, but the title of the thread says it all. The girl didn't make it onto level 3, so that's not even a part of the conversation really. The OP wants the girl off the preteam, period. OP stated that at her gym preteam counts as team. It's not a matter of more time or objective judging- she wants her gone, i.e. to be someone else's problem. At least that was my impression.

The title of the post is about kicking out the crazy gym MOM because of the way she conducted herself after tryouts. If the mom conducted herself in an appropriate way after her daughter didn't make team, I doubt this post would ever have been made and coach Molly would have gone on trying to get the hc to talk to the mom while doing the best she could to work with a girl who shouldn't be on her gym's pre-team. This woman cried over her daughter's scores while questioning the integrity and professionalism of the OP. As the owner of a business that teaches sports to children and a teacher I get what it's like to pour your heart and soul into these children and have their parents insult you and lie about you because their child is not performing up to whatever standards they think they should be. It hurts a lot-more than I can adequately express, and I think some of that hurt is being misinterpreted as dislike of the child when it is really her being absolutely DONE with the mother who would treat her this way. We have asked some families to leave our studio because of the parents behavior, and in every situation, it absolutely broke my heart to have to do it, because no matter how frustrating or time consuming the children were, we really did love and care for them. Wanting Suzie in a group more appropriate for her ability level does show concern for her well-being as well as the well being of the pre-team group as a whole. Coaches/teachers making decisions for the good of the group as a whole is one of the hardest things for parents to understand because they are invested in only their child, but it has to be done, and in the end, this MOM does not sound like she would be a good person to have around and for the good of the overall team program, she really probably should be asked to leave.

 

[MomIdidit!]

I don't have anything to add except for the fact that this post really makes it clear to me that coaching gymnastics is truly a difficult job. In a classroom if a child doesn't get a math equation it's not the end of the world but due to the safety issues in a gym, if a child is not ready to learn a skill, he or she could really get injured. It seems like that really needs to be the focus. When I see dd coaches tomorrow I am going to give them a huge thank you and thank you to all the wonderful coaches her on chalk bucket.

 

[Pigeon]

Eeek...I hate to wade into this, but it did come across (to me at least) as "kicking out of program" was referring to the child. I think people have raised some really valuable points and suggestions. HC is not doing his part in this situation. What can you do about that, besides doing what you have done in talking to him about it and being very clear in what you see happening in regards to the events you are coaching? So, if change isn't going to happen from his end, you've had suggestions from people about taking a different approach from your end. You can't control HC, so what can you control? If you are asking for help, sometimes you just have to take what it given.

But really my perspective comes from a parent of a child who struggles like it seems this girl does. My son (not the gymnast) has Asperger's and it is absolutely heartbreaking to see how many adults/teachers/etc. deal with him. He's not an easy kid. I get it. He has me in tears a lot of the time. And I tell you, I absolutely know as a parent when the person dealing with him has had enough of him. He's no one's favourite. He knows it, and their annoyance with him is probably more obvious to me (and him) than they think it is (when you have a kid who is tough to deal with, you sense this stuff). BUT, when I put my kid into a group environment knowing his limitations it's really on me to either help him deal with that environment or put him into a position where he can succeed. If I know he can't, I'll pull him out and put him somewhere more appropriate as I feel it's not fair to coaches or the other kids. Some parents don't feel that way, as it is their child's right to be there and accommodations should be made. Our gym had a similar situation, the coach said "I don't know what to do with him", the parent said "deal with it" so the coach did. The kid stayed in the group, but was pulled aside to do conditioning, etc when the other kids were doing things above his level. He didn't get along with kids, he sat to the side. Other kids are moving up, while he will stay at that level and the coach will keep him there as long as she needs to. He's a tough kid to deal with, she knows it, anticipates it, puts him aside when she has to...and has developed a thick skin dealing with the CGmom. She's pretty good at just shrugging and walking away...with an "eh, that's just how it goes".

I hope you can work something out soon. It's an understandably tough situation.

 

[CoachMeg]

Thank you everyone for the actual advice. Honestly, it has helped more than you know. Having a parent criticize your coaching style is one thing, but to have them flat out lie is totally unfair and I'd be lying if I said it didn't hurt.

For those asking, yes HC is on board with how I feel about Suzie's placement and agrees. If he wasn't on board, this post would have been asking something different. None of you know who I am (at least I don't think so), so it's not like I'm lying to make myself look better. I told the truth because I want actual advice on the situation I am in. The problem is that HC doesn't want to deal with it. Except now that the owners are involved, he's going to have to deal with it. I texted HC this afternoon about the situation that happened with Suzie's mom and his response was exactly this:

"Don't worry about *Suzie's* mom. She is just used to getting her way because she controls everything in *Suzie's* life. Just lay low. Keep your texts from her about the cancelled privates. We had tryouts and you prepared the girls very well. She should be able to see where *Suzie* was compared to the other girls. We are not saying no forever- we will pick some more girls at the end of the summer if they are ready."

This is what I mean. HC will tell me stuff like this through texts or in person at meetings, but will then do nothing about it. So it just leaves me to look like the bad guy. Suzie has been in our pre-team program for 5 months. I wrote this yesterday because after evaluations and Suzie's mom's meltdown to our office staff, I'm boiling with frustration.

Suzie herself is not a bad kid by any means. She does have her days, though. She can be argumentative (for example, if I give her a correction she will sometimes say, " I AM doing that!!!'), and she can throw temper tantrums - but this is not an every day thing. Maybe 3-4 times a month. Is she the hardest worker in the group? No. She will often play with the mats or stations set up. If there are hula-hoops or pit blocks set out for a station, I have to really watch her otherwise she will play with them. But she is not a bad kid and I do not wish anything bad upon her, ever. Period.

 

[momnipotent]

Pigeon-you make some good points and I understand how it is to watch a teacher or coach with your kid and know that they are frustrated with them, but as a teacher I have to put in my 2 cents. In my 15+ years of teaching I have never had one child who I wished I could "kick out" of my class. I might go to the staff room at lunch and complain about my student who refuses to do any work and is working 2-3 grade levels behind, or the one who consistently blurts out inappropriate things, or my Aspie who crawls around on the floor or my student with Tourette's who yells out swear words or my kid with extreme behavior problems who will turn around and throw a book at a classmate's face for no reason and then go back to my class when the bell rings and treat them all the same as all of the other students in my class and still love and appreciate them and want them in my class because they all bring something amazing and unique to the group. The frustration comes in knowing you are never going to be able to meet their needs and still meet the needs of the other students in the class. I can (and do) spend at least double the amount of time with my "problem" students as I do with my average or above average kiddos and it's still not nearly enough time and I feel guilty for not meeting their needs and not spending equal amounts of time with everyone. I have some students who I know would be better served in a smaller class with paraprofessional support and I would advocate for having them move to such a class not because I don't want them in my class, but because their needs would be better met somewhere else and it is my job to try to get each student in a situation where they can thrive. I have never once been happy to see a student (no matter how challenging) leave my class (I still cry every June) but there have been many parents I AM happy to see go, so take that for what it's worth-obviously only my experience, but one many of my colleagues would agree with-thus why we get quotes from award-winning administrators like this one, "Look, if I get an offer to lead a school system of orphans, I will be all over it, but I just can't deal with parents anymore; they are killing us." It's really never the kid.

 

[happychaos]

So how does the vault/bars coach feel about Suzie? I would think preparing separate stations on vault and bars would be even more challenging than on beam and floor. Does this coach feel as strongly about this as you do?

It seems clear that your HC is not going to remove Suzie from the group at this time, so maybe try to look at the situation as a chance to grow as a coach. Regardless of what field you work in, there is always going to be a Suzie, and a Suzie's mom.

You obviously care very much about your gymnasts, and their success. I know Suzie doesn't "deserve" to be on pre-team, but I would encourage you to just keep giving her your best efforts and attitude. 10 year olds can be surprisingly sensitive to the attitudes of those around them. I'm sure Suzie is already very aware that she is the "worst in the group" and "doesn't belong". I'd bet that is part of the reason she picks fights with the other girls. And, knowing how 10 year old girls can be, Suzie has probably heard some negative comments and even teasing from her teammates.

Just give Suzie your best efforts. Set small attainable goals for her. Make sure to praise her when she improves and makes corrections. Don't roll your eyes, or sigh when she struggles. Girls pick up on this (ask me how I know...). And what Suzie perceives probably goes right to mom's ear. Best of luck!

 

[GYM0M]

Pigeon-you make some good points and I understand how it is to watch a teacher or coach with your kid and know that they are frustrated with them, but as a teacher I have to put in my 2 cents. In my 15+ years of teaching I have never had one child who I wished I could "kick out" of my class. I might go to the staff room at lunch and complain about my student who refuses to do any work and is working 2-3 grade levels behind, or the one who consistently blurts out inappropriate things, or my Aspie who crawls around on the floor or my student with Tourette's who yells out swear words or my kid with extreme behavior problems who will turn around and throw a book at a classmate's face for no reason and then go back to my class when the bell rings and treat them all the same as all of the other students in my class and still love and appreciate them and want them in my class because they all bring something amazing and unique to the group. The frustration comes in knowing you are never going to be able to meet their needs and still meet the needs of the other students in the class. I can (and do) spend at least double the amount of time with my "problem" students as I do with my average or above average kiddos and it's still not nearly enough time and I feel guilty for not meeting their needs and not spending equal amounts of time with everyone. I have some students who I know would be better served in a smaller class with paraprofessional support and I would advocate for having them move to such a class not because I don't want them in my class, but because their needs would be better met somewhere else and it is my job to try to get each student in a situation where they can thrive. I have never once been happy to see a student (no matter how challenging) leave my class (I still cry every June) but there have been many parents I AM happy to see go, so take that for what it's worth-obviously only my experience, but one many of my colleagues would agree with-thus why we get quotes from award-winning administrators like this one, "Look, if I get an offer to lead a school system of orphans, I will be all over it, but I just can't deal with parents anymore; they are killing us." It's really never the kid.

Beautiful perspective! It is heartwarming to know that there ARE educators who still care about the child instead of the TEST. As I often feel some students potential is not maximized bc they are above the passing grade. Many situations have arose with my son who is often ignored bc he is passing.

 

[Along4theRide]

@CoachMeg...This is a though situation that's obviously causing you pain. I'm sorry. I hope you are able to use some of the advice offered here to move forward.

I can relate to both sides of this equation... Being attacked by another for something beyond my control... And a separate coaching situation (not gym) that was becoming detrimental to my DS's self esteem. In both cases, I found that open, direct, and honest communication was beneficial.

In the case with this family, you can choose the high road. Take a few deep breaths before any interactions, be professional, and respectfully step away if emotions escalate (theirs or yours). <--Certainly easier said than done, so good luck!!