Women Lost Tap Swing

[gympoppop]

Hi All,

I've got a real head scratcher. My daughter has always been very good at bars but has inexplicably lost her tap swing over the summer. She is a L5 this year and has her first meet next weekend but cannot get her flyaway b/c she can no longer get past horizontal on her tap swings. Does anybody see what has changed based on the two videos below? I know she can do it but I think she just needs a few pointers to get her back on the right track. Also, the problems seem to coincide with switching to grips, could this be part of the problem? Thanks so much everyone!

Here is her typical L4 tap swings:


And here they are now:

 

[Deleted member 18037]

1- yes adjusting to grips can be part of it

2- has she had a growth spurt/ puberty starting causing a shift in her center of gravity. I can’t tell from the video. She looks a bit taller. She might be needing to adjust to her new body.

3-I’m a very ignorant parent when it come to technique her height on the swings doesn’t look all that bad. It’s more then tap swings. I am however familiar with mentally how difficult the flyaway is for many gymmies. A flyaway is a pretty mentally difficult skill for them (among the many difficult skills soon to follow). It’s scary for them.

She needs time. And she needs you not to make it a big thing. All you need to do is stay out of it. And if she brings it up assure her that she will get it. It doesnt matter what anyone else is doing, she will get it. And she and her coach will handle it. I’m sure the coach has pointers

 

[gympoppop]

Thank you for your reply. She is taller but hasn't hit puberty/had a major change in height. I have stayed out of it and do completely trust her coaches. I guess it's just been quite a few months and hasn't come back at all so I thought a different set of eyes might see something that would be helpful. Totally agree with you on the flyaway being mentally difficult and that it definitely shouldn't be rushed. I wouldn't want to do it!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

. I guess it's just been quite a few months and hasn't come back at all

So did she have the flyaway and lose it? Which isn’t unusual either

If she did have it and lost it. Was it have pre grips, lose it post grips?
Was there a fall? Scary near miss? Did someone else have an ugly fall or injury that got in her head?

 

[gympoppop]

So did she have the flyaway and lose it? Which isn’t unusual either

If she did have it and lost it. Was it have pre grips, lose it post grips?
Was there a fall? Scary near miss? Did someone else have an ugly fall or injury that got in her head?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. She has never done an unspotted flyaway and I'm not asking at all about that skill. The first step for her to do the flyaway is to get the height of her tap swings back so that's what I was asking about. And I know her taps aren't that bad, they're just not what where they were 6 months ago.

 

[JBS]

Also, the problems seem to coincide with switching to grips, could this be part of the problem?

She is not pushing on the bar anymore. Look at the top of her back swing... L4 she pushes backward off of the heel of her hands... L5... she does a big re-grip with no push.

So basically... it's a bar tension issue... she is swinging down at L4 because she has tension... L5 she is falling down as she is probably not trusting the grips.

Look at the two pictures...

This first pic is the good swing... heels of her hands are on the bar and wrists are cocked back a bit... fingers do not extend below the bar...

With grips... wrist / hands are rolled forward so you can see the fingers below the bar... she is not pushing on the bar...

This is very very normal... it's hard for gymnasts to figure this out when they get grips... they feel like they are going to slip off. Depending on the size of her hands... she may slip off the bar easier with the grips.

The bar should travel in the grips / hands as follows...

• From the heel of the hand to the pocket of the grip and back again

The bar should not travel past the heel of the hand towards the wrist. When an athlete gets grips... this sometimes happens as the grip does in fact connect to the arm past the wrist.

Basically... the wrist / hand should be cocked back slightly like the L4 picture. This allows the gymnast to push on the bar with the heel of the hand.

Let me know if that makes sense?

 

[JBS]

I will add... if she learns to do this well and gets a big swing back... the peel off the bar will typically happen after a big front swing as she rides the back swing up.

In other words... they peel (slip off) when they are least expecting it.

Spotting the the back swing on new grip kids and all kids at meets is something that I would recommend. In fact... we spot this counter swing almost all the time with all of our athletes.

 

[TheXcelMom]

Try it without the grips a couple of times and see what happens.

 

[gympoppop]

She is not pushing on the bar anymore. Look at the top of her back swing... L4 she pushes backward off of the heel of her hands... L5... she does a big re-grip with no push.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you so much!! That is absolutely what the difference is! I didn't see that at all until you said it but then re-watched the videos and saw that you are 100% right that she is losing all bar and body tension as she transitions from the end of the counter swing to the forward swing which causes her to just flop down. It's really good to hear that this is normal when getting used to grips and that she hasn't just completely forgotten everything And I totally agree about the spotting. We've been meaning to ask about that...

 

[gympoppop]

Try it without the grips a couple of times and see what happens.

That is a good idea. I suspect she could do the tap and flyaway w/o grips but I don't know at this point whether she would be allowed to, or whether it would be long-term counterproductive to switch back to no grips.

 

[TheXcelMom]

know at this point whether she would be allowed

It would certainly help illustrate whether it’s the problem with her grips or a problem with a mental block. Obviously, that’s between her and her coach. on the other hand…this confuses me. Is using grips not an individual choice?

 

[JBS]

Is using grips not an individual choice?

Good question... that's a tough one... I would say "yes" and "no".

 

[TheXcelMom]

Good question... that's a tough one... I would say "yes" and "no".

Is there a reason you can't elaborate? Have I said something wrong?

 

[GymnastPotterhead]

Maybe coaches/gym want their gymnasts to start using grips? But again a few gymnasts compete optionals without grips so personal choice too

 

[gympoppop]

Is there a reason you can't elaborate? Have I said something wrong?

I don't think you've said anything wrong at all. I've never asked, but I suspect my DD's gym would have a similar view that they are very strongly encouraged if not mandated. I'm not sure about JBS's reasoning, but I'm guessing this is b/c the higher level skills are more dangerous w/o grips (or some other aid like honey). This would raise safety and liability issues for a gym. At my DD's level it would probably be fine not to use them b/c the skills aren't that big yet, but this is also the level when she should be getting accustomed to using them for when the skills do get big.

 

[JBS]

Is there a reason you can't elaborate? Have I said something wrong?

No... you have not said anything wrong at all... it is a very good question... it's hard to explain.

I'm just going to ramble a bit here...

As a coach... I don't want to force my athletes into grips as there is sometimes that time when they are uncomfortable with them. However... 99%+ of your modern upper level gymnasts are going to wear grips statistically. Does this mean that everyone will wear grips... no... but I have yet to have an upper level athlete that doesn't wear them.

There is also the issue that some coaches believe strongly that they don't want to re-teach upper level skills. The concept behind this is that once a skill is learned with no grips... it has to be re-learned with the grips if the athlete ends up getting grips. While this is not the end of the world... it is a real thing... there is definitely a transitional period when a gymnast starts wearing grips for many athletes. If they already have upper level skills... toe hands... releases... etc... sometimes they feel as if they have "lost their skills".

My own daughter didn't wear grips until L9... however... she was very small. We did go through a period of "issues". She would wear the grips sometimes and sometimes not. Eventually she got used to them... but this took around a year and definitely affected our first year of L9.

With the grips that are available today... US Glove Hot Shots and similar... it is possible to get much smaller athletes into grips. In my opinion... there is still a point at which they don't work all the time. When an athlete's hand measures under 5.5" from the tip of the middle finger to the base of the hand... I usually don't put them in grips yet. At that point in time I have not had good luck with grips.

At L4 and L5 we basically try to get the kids in grips. Once they get their grips... they do not have to wear them... most choose to wear them fairly quickly. Sometimes it takes extra work explaining how the grips work. The reinforcement of how the grips work while having them watch the upper level kids swing usually works pretty well.

I'll leave you with this...

 

[JBS]

Here is an article I wrote on gymnastics grips...

Link Removed

 

[TheXcelMom]

Ah, okay. My daughter (XG) is too small (at 12YO still) and the grips make a mess of her hands. She's developing serious calluses which is just the price of admission. I still have tennis calluses from when I played in high school [REDACTED] years ago.
So I'll watch out for her coach mandating them and if she does, I'll know why. Thank you.