Parents Missing school for training

[gymmommy123]

I would imagine, most any parent willing and committed enough to their child to dedicate all the resources needed to be a successful gymnast, are likely equally willing and committed to raise a well-educated child too. I certainly wouldn't completely throw out the idea of altering a school schedule down the road, or even possibly homeschool, should my daughter ever get to the higher levels that required such heavy hours in the gym. In a way, I bet there are a lot of advantages to a shorter school day for those older girls at the higher levels (more downtime, earlier to get home and in bed, more time with the family, etc.) I always try to think, nothing has to be set in stone. You think you and your DD want to go that path, and it doesn't work out, well, you switch tracks and go back to a regular school schedule.

 

[Gymmommy71]

My DD manages to fit in 18+ hours a week of activities w/o interrupting her school day (except for the occasional leave early on Friday for an out of town meet or competiton)...

She absolutely loves school for both the social and the group learning aspects, and she'd literally have to be poised to go to the Olympics in *immediate future* to ever want to give up going to school. Like if the Olympic trails were say 9 mos out, and she knew she had a good shot at making it, yeah...she might stop going to school for a while to train extra...lol...

I guess I don't understand why these gyms need to ask parents to take their kids out of school at such a young age? If its because the rec kids are there, why wouldn't the gym just not schedule the rec kids to be there at the same time as the elite track team? It just comes off as a money thing IMO. Like they are taking advantage of the intense dedication of the parents of the talented kids...

Missing school over training doesn't seem necessary until you are approaching 24+ hours a week in that activity IMO (cause at that point there just aren't enough hours in the week to both), but would a 7 YO be training that many hours?

 

[Natalia]

"School" is sooo past century. Unfortunately old habits die hard.

Take some time to study all the educational resources currently available to parents who have the time to enrich the school experience.

School should be the place to obtain the basic structure of a program with defined objectives.

That's just the beginning.The real fun is in the world around us.Kids don't see the point of maths,but they like you to buy them things?Then teach them about investing,compounding dividends,the relation between the price of bonds to their yield.Then open up a virtual account for them ,the return on capital at the end of the month is paid out in real money for them to spend...Maths becomes a fantastic ally.

Trust yourself as a parent,you will more then compensate the hours missed in a clunky educational system.

 

[GymBeeMom]

Education is of the utmost importance in our household. My DH and I are highly educated and expect the same of our children. Our DD is homeschooled and trains 30 hours at gym. This schedule allows her to reach her highest potential in her sport and her education while STILL allowing time for church, friends, piano and ballet. She made the choice and excels in all areas. She is disciplined, social and talented in more than gymnastics. My DS is in public school, trains gym 12-16 hours a week, and does piano and taikwando. He does not homeschool and the balance is harder for him than his sister because of this. There is no right answer, but to assume that taking a child out of school for a sport means that there is not as much emphasis on education is a misconception. Education comes in many forms, high expectations are taught by parents, and traditional school is one means to an end. Do what works for you with an open mind for the choices others make.

 

[GymBeeMom]

"It just comes off as a money thing IMO. Like they are taking advantage of the intense dedication of the parents of the talented kids..."

Nope, not a money making thing at all. It's a time and attention to gymnast thing. Grouping gymnasts by hours trained and what kind of attention each group needs.

"Missing school over training doesn't seem necessary until you are approaching 24+ hours a week in that activity IMO (cause at that point there just aren't enough hours in the week to both), but would a 7 YO be training that many hours?"

Many kids who are out of school for gym are training over 24 hours. Yes, a 7 year old may train that many hours. My DD started day training at 7 years old, and 24 hours a week.

 

[leotardmakermum]

I could never pull this off. My daughter's principal won't even extend her an excused absence when she has to miss for an out of state competition. *sigh*

Our head coach always stresses that if any of us have any problems in dealing with our schools, he is completely willing to send an appropriate letter or speak with the school principal about the issue. He does not leave us up to our own devices, but is fully willing to support us. Have you asked your HC for support in dealing with the school?

 

[3gymgirls]

My 6 year old in 1st grade would be heartbroken to miss two afternoons a week for gym - and she loves gym. However, she also loves the social and learning aspects of school. It would not be a great schedule for her academically as the afternoon provides math, social studies, science, and art class plus reading enrichment. Morning classes include reading, language arts, music, and PE daily. Her class schedule will likely be quite similar next year as well.

 

[leotardmakermum]

Missing school over training doesn't seem necessary until you are approaching 24+ hours a week in that activity IMO (cause at that point there just aren't enough hours in the week to both), but would a 7 YO be training that many hours?

Yes, for the young but higher level ones, 25 hours at our gym.

 

[Quadqueen]

25-30 hours seems extreme at 7 or 8 years old. Any of the experienced coaches want to weigh in - Dunno? Is this really necessary??

 

[MaryA]

Reading through this thread, it seems as though most of the people who feel strongly against this idea are from the US. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it does seem as though we Americans often have a very rigid view of education/school. I, for one, wish there was some sort of flexible school day program allowed in more US schools. I suspect the reason why there isn't has to do with the money schools get per student relating to attendance, but even as a former teacher, I don't pretend to know the ins-and-outs of the logistics behind the public school system. I know that, around here, once you're in high school, you can go on "modified school day" if you have a job and are working during school hours, but no such luck if you are heavily involved in an outside sport or other activity.

I love my DD and fully support her commitment to gymnastics, but I don't love that on most days I see her only briefly in the AM and then again for a short period in the evening while she eats and finishes her homework. If there was a way where she could start her gymnastics an hour or two earlier a couple of days a week and we could plan a family dinner those nights, I'd be all over it. I truly believe that the stuff she learns at gymnastics (constantly work to improve yourself, manage your time well, never give up, etc.) will serve her as well in life as most of the stuff she is learning at school (and I think the school she goes to is awesome).

 

[Faith]

I'm not sure how common it is in the UK. As far as I know there are only two clubs, Heathrow and Notts, that work with specific schools to arrange a schedule so gymnasts can train in school hours. I did think that was more secondary level (11-18) though, but I may be misinformed .

I'm quite surprised that Flossyduck's DD is expected to miss school at 8. It seems a little young to me, although I don't necessarily disagree with it. The clubs I know whose kids are elite track train outside school hours until secondary level, when they're a few years closer to knowing whether elite is a realistic goal. It's usually at this point they transfer to one of the clubs/schools who do work together.

DD is elite track for a different sport, and I know at some point they do ask you to miss a school session to take advantage of the quieter times. But it's not compulsory, and it's not until they are competing nationally at age 10 +.

My question would be how necessary is it, how young? I'd certainly consider allowing time off school to train, but I'd need to be fairly convinced she has a real shot at reaching elite level. I'm not entirely sure that kids younger than 10 need to be putting in so many hours they need to miss school. I think up to 21 hours a week is possible evenings and weekends (2x3 hours sat, 4 hours sun, 3 evenings x 3.5 hours), and surely that's more than enough for any future elite under 10? Any more is burnout/injury surely?

Sorry this has turned out long I'm on the fence a bit. At what age to you consider a child to have real elite potential? As we've discussed on this forum many a time that phenom at 6 doesn't always translate to Olympian at 16. 8 isn't always too old to start gymnastics and reach the olympics, so why the need for so many hours before then? There's an increasingly larger number of girls in the UK making it to Team GB who weren't even elite track...I would be worried about too much, too soon..

 

[wallinbl]

Reading through this thread, it seems as though most of the people who feel strongly against this idea are from the US. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it does seem as though we Americans often have a very rigid view of education/school.

I generally get what you're saying with this, but 7 seems a bit young for this sort of thing. Maybe the cultural difference is how we view *when* this becomes appropriate/acceptable. I don't think as many would be questioning if the child was older.

 

[leotardmakermum]

I think that part of the difference is that in Australia, by this age, girls are ON the elite path. Its not a question of waiting until they are in later secondary school before making that decision. We know that our daughter is heading towards the Olympics. That is her aim, and that is the gym's plan for her. Whether she makes it or not remains to be seen! She's not just in it for the fun of it (she's definitely in it for that too!) - she has a plan and a goal. Missing some school is just part of working towards that goal.

Whether it is right or wrong, that's just the way it is here in Australia.

 

[Flossyduck]

I suspect part of the problem in the UK is the overuse of the term elite. We have the elite levels which kids on the elite track have to compete, but actually many, many local clubs compete these levels (so I guess could claim to have kids on the elite track) but up until level 2 or 3 - they don't actually have any qualified elite gymnasts. There's a big difference between girls competing on the elite levels and those that actually qualify elite.

There are less than 10 gyms clubs which are high performance centres subsidised to produce GB squad. Apart from Notts and Heathrow, at least three others expect the girls to train in school time. I don't know about the others but I suspect they are similar. Only Park Wrekin and Heathrow have an 'arrangement' with the school, Notts has a school next door and the rest make their own arrangements. Althugh girls can compete levels elsewhere, almost all of them transfer to an HPC once they qualify elite at 10 or 11, as was the case for all of the 2012 olympic team.

There are only a small number of elite track girls at our gym (there are many others who could do the lower levels but don't if they are not genuinly expected to make elite) and all except one made the national squad for their age this year. All of them were selected last year. I don't know previously because we weren't there. So I guess the reality is that they are expected to make national squad and they almost always do. If they are struggling at any point they are moved off the elite path!

As my daughter progresses we will see what happens. We live a distance away (so do several others) which is a consideration and of course she may not hack it. But for the time being I'd rather have her miss an afternoon painting or netball at school and get sunday off to spend with the family. I also value the eveing she gets off in the week - so the balance of school, gym and home is right for us at the moment. If she didn't miss scholl it would be out of balance and I suspect she'd also be exhausted going to school and gym all week and having to do gym all weekend - ughhh.

 

[Flossyduck]

Contrary to evidence above I can actually spell, but had trouble getting the post to work so was rushing. Sorry. Please don't take it as evidence that my academic expectations for my family are less than satisfactory

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don't think it has to do with the way we track kids to elite earlier, the US do this too with their TOPS program's and their fast track teams they just don't use the term elite the way we do.

i think it has a lot to do with the current attitudes towards education in our different countries. In my experience the US does have a far more serious attitude towards education. Many parents in the US taut the line "school comes first", while far less Australian parents feel this way. Many of our parents are happy for the kid to miss a day here and there just because their kids are a bit over it.

There is a far higher emphasis on going to college in the IS, in Australia kids are not encouraged to go to university unless they are academically inclined. If they don't show that capacity right from the age of 15 their schooling is more veered towards training for a career and they don't even work towards a university entrance score at all.

in the US many schools will not allow days off, where as though Australian schools are far more supportive of a kid missing school to go overseas, or attend a gymnastics competition. The attitude is that not all learning occurs within the classroom, but there are many broad experiences that benefit the child's education.

in the US school work and homework account for part of the grade, while in Australia if you can pass the tests and assign,nets not doing homework or classwork won't affect your overall grade.

 

[gymgal]

I don't think it has to do with the way we track kids to elite earlier, the US do this too with their TOPS program's and their fast track teams they just don't use the term elite the way we do.

i think it has a lot to do with the current attitudes towards education in our different countries. In my experience the US does have a far more serious attitude towards education. Many parents in the US taut the line "school comes first", while far less Australian parents feel this way. Many of our parents are happy for the kid to miss a day here and there just because their kids are a bit over it.

There is a far higher emphasis on going to college in the IS, in Australia kids are not encouraged to go to university unless they are academically inclined. If they don't show that capacity right from the age of 15 their schooling is more veered towards training for a career and they don't even work towards a university entrance score at all.

in the US many schools will not allow days off, where as though Australian schools are far more supportive of a kid missing school to go overseas, or attend a gymnastics competition. The attitude is that not all learning occurs within the classroom, but there are many broad experiences that benefit the child's education.

in the US school work and homework account for part of the grade, while in Australia if you can pass the tests and assign,nets not doing homework or classwork won't affect your overall grade.

I SO wish we had this philosophy here! I think we place way too much emphasis on education and not enough on family development. And you are correct. Our current system subscribes to the Notion that school is the only place where "true" learning takes place. I think it comes from the test/results driven system we have in place. And that everyone needs a college education to be successful. We have essentially done away with out trade/career programs in favor of college for everyone, which is of course, unattainable.

We homeschool for various reasons but a major factor its the time element. We like spending time as a family. We don't feel the need to have our children sit in a classroom for 7 hours a day when they can do their work in less than half that time. Gives them more time to explore their interests whether it be sports, arts, or more academics...

As for training during school hours, I wish we had this option. The kids could be back home at an earlier time after practices and not be so rushed into bedtime routines.

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[Gymmommy71]

As much as my daughter loves gymnastics, I know if I had put her into any program that required her to go 25 hours a week when she was only 7, she would have hated it and quit by now. I can't believe these 7 year olds are okay w/ this and aren't crying frequently about how much they have to train, but they apparently are more dedicated than my DD (and I'm sure the vast majority of the teammates she's had over the years).

How do some of these girls who do those types hours from a young age fare after they get 5-6 years into things and something happens where they have to quit? What if they realize that they just don't want to do it anymore?

 

[gymgal]

As much as my daughter loves gymnastics, I know if I had put her into any program that required her to go 25 hours a week when she was only 7, she would have hated it and quit by now. I can't believe these 7 year olds are okay w/ this and aren't crying frequently about how much they have to train, but they apparently are more dedicated than my DD (and I'm sure the vast majority of the teammates she's had over the years).

How do some of these girls who do those types hours from a young age fare after they get 5-6 years into things and something happens where they have to quit? What if they realize that they just don't want to do it anymore?

Some kids really are that dedicated. Just like other kids are that dedicated to school or reading or video games my dd would have loved to go every day at the week at that age. I knew we weren't talking elite material and I was looking more long term for her getting her through high school in a great sport that keeps her out of teen trouble ;-)

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[2G1B]

I do think that my oldest DD would go to the gym as much as she could. She has never once complained about it and anytime her coach offers to let her lead her little sister's class in stretching she is all over it.

that being said, our HC is very adamant that he doesn't want the younger kids in the gym more than 9 hours per week, and for the most part he doesn't even want that many hours for them. He says that as long as they are progressing and enjoying it at this age, he is happy. He doesn't want to have them burnt out. He has said, "I don't want the top level 4, 5 and 6 teams. I want the top optionals teams. I want them to want to stick with it through high school." There are gyms in our area that have young kids practicing way more hours than we do. But we have one of the largest teams in the area for kids who are at optionals levels (for boys and girls). Oh, and FWIW, he is French.